2042 Expiration

[MICKIMINI]

We found it funny to think about 2042 back in 1996, however DH and I are now selling off our 2042's with one OKW to go. We love the resort as do our son and DIL, however we're all in with 2057 and beyond. I just imagine it to be a total mess at the end...I hope DVC can somehow soften the blow. All those members *crushed* emotionally at the end of an era is a sad thought. Our son will be a 46 year member at that point, but with a 2057 expiration!

 

[Her Dotness]

I've seen speculation for years that DVD may well demolish the older 2042 resorts at contract expiration and build new ones in their place rather than attempting to renovate a 25+-year-old structure. Given deterioration due to the extremes of both time and Florida weather, I can see that being somewhat less costly and far more practical.

I think one reason we DVCers tend to get in a tizzy about these contracts going poof is that we somewhat think of them as literal real estate. We're "owners" of a place to live for a week or more. It's a vacation home, even though not a single-family one. We pay for maintenance, pay taxes, etc. In some ways, DVC membership feels much like owning a house or apartment. The latter won't one day vanish unless succumbing to disaster or requiring demolition for some reason. We'll simply sell them when our needs change and will live elsewhere. DVC contracts come to feel like they should be ours as long as we want them.

Consequently, it's easy to think that Disney should extend what we know intellectually (but not emotionally) is a temporary arrangement, particularly after the infamous OKW extension.

Maybe it's just that I'm of an age that I don't particularly care that our smallest contract will simply vanish, leaving us no literal return on our investment like the sale of a well-maintained house can produce. I'll be nearing 100 or dead before then but will have a few decades of lovely DVC memories. Not a bad return on our investment as I see it.

All we bought, really, was the entitlement to stay in DVC resorts every so often until the contract expires. I'm good with that concept as is.

 

[sivako!]

I think we all should just show up and have a 2042 Party on the Boardwalk

I’m ready for that one!!

 

[zavandor]

If they care about owners losing points, they should keep borrowing in the final years, to allow as many points to be used before expiration and free some space in the last year.

If they care about their own breakage inventory, they'll restrict usage as much as possible, removing both banking and borrowing, causing a lot of points going to waste, not only because the final year shuffle, but because using the exact number of points you own in one year is very difficult (most would end with at least few spare points, not enought to book one night).

Depending on what's your opinion is of the DVCMC you may decide which one is the most probable option.

 

[drusba]

If they care about owners losing points, they should keep borrowing in the final years, to allow as many points to be used before expiration and free some space in the final year.

If they care about their own breakage inventory, they'll restrictions usage as much as possible, removing both banking and borrowing, causing a lot of points going to waste, not only because the final year shuffle, but because using the exact number of points you own in one year is very difficult (most would end with at least few spare points, not enought to book one night).

Depending on what's your opinion is of the DVCMC you may decide which one is the most probable option.

And in guessing which way that DVD/DVCM is more likely to go on the issue, consider the following: in the last 12 years DVD/DVCM has repeatedly proven that it despises resale purchasers; the vast majority of ownership interests expiring in 2042 will likely be those held by resale purchasers.

 

[Narcoossee11]

As others have guessed.

DVC (if even called that) will TOTALLY change.
Different rules.
More money
Easier to change 'rules' as the world changes.

2040 ish we will see what the future holds.
The pandemic has given Disney a opportunity to know what they need to change.

 

[heynowirv]

We found it funny to think about 2042 back in 1996, however DH and I are now selling off our 2042's with one OKW to go. We love the resort as do our son and DIL, however we're all in with 2057 and beyond. I just imagine it to be a total mess at the end...I hope DVC can somehow soften the blow. All those members *crushed* emotionally at the end of an era is a sad thought. Our son will be a 46 year member at that point, but with a 2057 expiration!

I'll be 88 and DW 83 at the end.We will be quite happy to have 1 last margarita at the Gurgling Suitcase and stroll out for 1 more boat ride to DTD.

 

[SteveAZee]

The last points you will get are those from 2041 and none can be used for a reservation that ends any time after Jan 31, 2042, e.g., those with a Dec use year will get Dec 2041 points which will be unusable for post Jan-2042 reservations, and that includes using them at any other DVC resort that is not expiring in 2042. As to borrowing points, Disney could "temporarily" suspend any right to borrow during the last two to three years of the resort. It could also suspend banking beginning a few years before 2042 to help prevent too many points accumulating for reservations in the last two years of the DVC period.

I seriously doubt DVC will do anything that would extend the use of any points or ownership interests for any purpose beyond Jan 2042. That would be a legal mess -- does it create an expectation of an extension of the existing term at the same points per night as already exist; what modifications would be needed to the existing POS and membership agreements to allow such; does doing so impact on its ability to start selling the resort as a new resort with a new 50-year term starting Feb 1, 2042; I expect that DVC's lawyers would strongly recommend against any idea of allowing any usage of the expiring points after Jan 2042.

My guess is that DVD will probably want to do a major refurb/redo to the resorts at the time and start another 50 year DVC contract that, of course, will be similar to Riviera, where future resale purchasers will not be able to reserve other resorts. Also the total points applicable to the new 50-year resort and thus also the points needed per night for any room will likely be greatly increased from what they are now. Those members that still exist as owners in the last few years of the resort may be given the opportunity to purchase a new contract before the expiration that will begin after expiration at a "discount" from the new regular per point price from DVD that will likely be more than three times what the per point price is now, e.g., BWV was $75 a point in Jan 2002 and now 20 years later is $230 (and that $230 buys only 20 years compared to 40 that was bought in 2002), and, of course, the actual cost increase for needed points will be higher because the points needed for any room per night will be higher.

I guess I'm wondering if you know for certain that this is how it will play out, or if it's speculation?

I guess my view is each person's UY points are (minus banking and borrowing) to be used in the 12 months following their UY month. If I have my last set of points loads in December 2041 and I have only two months to use them, it seems very likely a lot of people won't be able to use their points. That seems like a bigger problem for them. Honestly, if that's how it pans out, why would people even pay their maintenance fees for 2041 if the odds are good they'll not be able to use their points?

 

[Sandisw]

I guess I'm wondering if you know for certain that this is how it will play out, or if it's speculation?

I guess my view is each person's UY points are (minus banking and borrowing) to be used in the 12 months following their UY month. If I have my last set of points loads in December 2041 and I have only two months to use them, it seems very likely a lot of people won't be able to use their points. That seems like a bigger problem for them. Honestly, if that's how it pans out, why would people even pay their maintenance fees for 2041 if the odds are good they'll not be able to use their points?

The POS states that ownership expires and the resort ceases to exist on January 31st, 2042.

So, that is not speculation but what those who own those resorts agreed to when the bought…and what will happen with all resorts when they expire.

When you get your 2041 points doesn’t matter. The resort ceases to exist on that date.

In terms of MFs? If one doesn’t pay in 2041, the Owner will be locked out of using their membership as soon as they are in default which would be Feb 2041. So, not only would they not get to use 2041, they’d be out using 2040 points if they didn’t pay. And, there is certainly a chance some don’t pay them because they wont care to go that last year.

 

[kanerf]

Twenty years is a long time folks, why bother to speculate now?

 

[CarolynFH]

I guess I'm wondering if you know for certain that this is how it will play out, or if it's speculation?

I guess my view is each person's UY points are (minus banking and borrowing) to be used in the 12 months following their UY month. If I have my last set of points loads in December 2041 and I have only two months to use them, it seems very likely a lot of people won't be able to use their points. That seems like a bigger problem for them. Honestly, if that's how it pans out, why would people even pay their maintenance fees for 2041 if the odds are good they'll not be able to use their points?

The contract is very specific: our ownership interest ends on January 31, 2042. As of February 1, 2042 we no longer own anything at BWV, and in fact, as Sandisw says, the BWV Condominium Association will have ceased to exist.

It’s because of the shortened 2041 UY (only February UY would have a full 12 months of use) that we speculate that DVC will modify banking, borrowing and possibly booking of the 2042 resorts as 1/31/2042 approaches, but no one knows for sure. I doubt that DVC even has a definite plan at this moment.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

we cannot use the resort after January 2042.

I don't think that's right. I think everyone gets to finish out their Use Year, e.g. December UYs would have until November 2042 to use their December 2041 points (even though yes, technically, they won't be "owners" anymore at that point).

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think that's right. I think everyone gets to finish out their Use Year, e.g. December UYs would have until November 2042 to use their December 2041 points (even though yes, technically, they won't be "owners" anymore at that point).

Nope. There is no resort to use after January 31st, 2042. Your ownership and use of the building doesn’t exist after that date. That building goes back to DVD.

 

[TCRAIG]

I don't think that's right. I think everyone gets to finish out their Use Year, e.g. December UYs would have until November 2042 to use their December 2041 points (even though yes, technically, they won't be "owners" anymore at that point).

I hope you’re right since one of my 2042 resort UYs is December and the other is Oct…but I ain’t gunna hold my breath!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Nope. There is no resort to use after January 31st, 2042. Your ownership and use of the building doesn’t exist after that date. That building goes back to DVD.

You're entitled to the full allocation of points at the start of each Use Year. That means a December owner with a 200 point contract gets 200 points on December 1. Owners don't accrue the points as the year goes by. You don't need to own the resort when you stay there, you need to own the resort when the points are allocated, which is not after January 31st, 2042, it's December 1st, 2041.

 

[Sandisw]

You're entitled to the full allocation of points at the start of each Use Year. That means a December owner with a 200 point contract gets 200 points on December 1. Owners don't accrue the points as the year goes by. You don't need to own the resort when you stay there, you need to own the resort when the points are allocated, which is not after January 31st, 2042, it's December 1st, 2041.

That is not how it is written. The ground lease expires on JAnuary 31st 2042 and it ends your contract as there is no longer a DVC resort. The building now belongs to DVD.

So, no you do not get to use points anywhere because points are representive of what you own and you don’t own anything after that date. So you will get all of your points but will have 2 months to use them.

Think about it now. If I buy a December uY right now from Disney I’m not getting 12 months to use…they expire November 30th..only reason I get longer is because they allow late banking.which they don’t have to.

But MFs will also end January 31st for 2042 as no more resort to operate. I mean who do you think would pay to operate a 2042 resort past that date?

You can’t use your points elsewhere either because the resort will no longer exist and thus not part of BVTC.

So those with Dec UY get to use points like everyone else up to the end date of the resort.

Now, what they could decide to do is allow those with fall UYs borrowing and not allow other UYs but as soon as it hits February 1st, your contract ends., which means you have nothing to use.

It’s why the extension of OKW is a mess.

ETA. To work that way you suggest, each contract would be written with a different end date based on The UY of the points and they are not

 

[Sandisw]

Here is the language from RIV but same as the others. On that date the resorts cease to exist and I , as owner, have agreed to give my ownership interest back to them…nothing different written for those points I own in an Aug UY vs my Dec UY

 

[CaptainAmerica]

ETA. To work that way you suggest, each contract would be written with a different end date based on The UY of the points and they are not

That is not correct. DVD is obligated to provide sufficient inventory (within reason) to accommodate the points issued. It's the same reason why they couldn't shut down Bay Lake Tower for two years to refurb the whole place, they have to do it gradually. Your ownership interest will terminate on January 31, 2042 but DVD absolutely has to let you use your December 2041 points.

Here is the language from RIV but same as the others. On that date the resorts cease to exist and I , as owner, have agreed to give my ownership interest back to them…nothing different written for those points I own in an Aug UY vs my Dec UY View attachment 699730

You're missing the point. I'm not saying a December UY has a different termination date of the ownership interest, I'm saying that DVD has to provide you with sufficient opportunity to use your points even after your ownership interest has expired.

 

[Sandisw]

That is not correct. DVD is obligated to provide sufficient inventory (within reason) to accommodate the points issued. It's the same reason why they couldn't shut down Bay Lake Tower for two years to refurb the whole place, they have to do it gradually. Your ownership interest will terminate on January 31, 2042 but DVD absolutely has to let you use your December 2041 points.


You're missing the point. I'm not saying a December UY has a different termination date of the ownership interest, I'm saying that DVD has to provide you with sufficient opportunity to use your points even after your ownership interest has expired.

The points sold are based on the total points to match the units available for a calendar year. So, when adding up all UYs have rooms that match them so they did not oversell the resort.

And that is all that matters. Please find me the language in the contract or in FL timeshare law that says you have the right to use something you no longer own and that DVD has agreed to do what you suggest.

There is a difference to rehab vs the expiration of the resort So apples and oranges

But, the contract does have language that allows for owners of one resort to trade elsewhere if their resort has an issue. That is why VGC and AUL owners got to book WDW with their points even When those resorts stayed closed longer than the others and it changed the one to one points ratio. So, nothing legal out there that would have prevented them from shutting down more of BLT or any resort to renovate it. They can take as many rooms as they want out of service to rehab it.

They don’t because it doesn’t make sense to do it any other way they do it now.

Sorry, but the contract is pretty clear that you agreed to transfer ownership back to WDPR on the expiration date when you bought.

 

[Narcoossee11]

The process of how to use your last UY of points will be detailed to give all time to decide how to use them
BUT
I think we will also see a lot of info of the changes for the membership going forward starting in 2030. This also will give members time to adapt.