2042 Expiration

[justadreamaway77]

For us, a 2042 resort is actually much more appealing than a later expiration. We haven't bought into DVC yet, but are considering. I like the idea of 2042 because it means I'm only locked into 20 years of annual dues. We would be spending waaaaaaay less over the lifetime of the contract. We're pushing 40, and I'm not sure we're still going to want to own DVC in our 70s. And I don't really want to pass down a contract to our children upon our death - locking them into either paying annual dues as well or having the headache of reselling their portion.

So, I guess it just depends on the person / situation.

And as the current pandemic climate has shown, there really isn't a high level of certainty that Disney will still be the company it is now, 40 years down the road...

We were the total opposite. We bought our first DVC contract in December because we fell in love with the idea of going with our grandchildren well into our 70's. All this came into my husband's head when we went for a weekend November for our 15th anniversary and it was just us, no kids. We did the Riviera tour and after a few days thought back home realized that 50 years was a bit much.....we would be 92! Then we discovered resale and found SSR's 2054 expiration date was perfect! We will be 76/77 years old when it expires, plenty of time to take our grandchildren for trips. We thought about Boulder Ridge because we love the Wilderness Lodge/Fort Wilderness vibe so much but the 2042 just didn't give us what we really wanted....those trips with grandkids one day.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I doubt the 2042 resorts will be extended under their current terms, but I would be surprised if Disney did not offer some kind of favorable price to current owners of the 42 resorts to purchase into the “new” contracts once they expire. They would be foolish not to, it would be easy sales for them from the people who already know and love the product. 20+ years is still a long ways a way. I doubt Disney even knows what they will do this far in advance, and a lot of it might depend on the economic situation they find themselves in nearing 2042. Certainly nobody predicted Covid19 would do what it has done to their business model. They will do whatever they think can make them the most money when the time comes. Your guess is as good as mine about what that will look like.

 

[Bobby2443]

We bought 550 points to beach club this year and based on the pricing we paid I’m happy with it. Everyone’s family situation is different but 22 years is a long time, no matter how much of a planner you are who knows where things will be in your life by then. For our family we have young kids and want the kitchen, so if I have to rent from Disney the same DVC room I could be owning to me it doesn’t make any sense not to be an owner. We tried before buying in December and when I look at how much we spent renting from Disney it almost makes me sick I didn’t just buy it before we went. Our kids will also be 24 and 22 once this contract expires and by then maybe they have no interest in hanging out with us and me and my wife will just buy regular hotel rooms, who knows. Or maybe I’ll buy a bay lake tower contract at some point, I feel like it’s a good value right now

 

[ClemTig]

Why would you say that? The extension was a poor economic value for the owners. The resale market has never even come close to valuing an extended contract at the price DVD was/is charging for it.

FWIW, I've never owned OKW, but if I did, I wouldn't accept the offer, either.

Any nobody FORCED them to buy. The outcry from the OKW owners was ridiculous. If they didn't like the deal, just don't buy. Don't act "offended" by the offer.

 

[CarolMN]

Any nobody FORCED them to buy. The outcry from the OKW owners was ridiculous. If they didn't like the deal, just don't buy. Don't act "offended" by the offer.

It is easy to be wrong when one assumes emotions or intent from written internet postings.

And IIRC, OKW owners were forced to either accept or decline. Those who ignored the requirement were/are unable to sell until they sign over the extension to Disney or pay for it.

 

[jarestel]

Regarding OKW extensions, DVD said “pay us today for something you cannot use for 35 years”. Many OKW owners thought this wasn’t a good idea for many reasons. What’s up with the hostility about members who said thanks, but no thanks to this “deal”?

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Regarding OKW extensions, DVD said “pay us today for something you cannot use for 35 years”. Many OKW owners thought this wasn’t a good idea for many reasons. What’s up with the hostility about members who said thanks, but no thanks to this “deal”?

Probably jealousy.

I think a lot of BWV and BCV owners would love to be offered an extension. Myself included! Ha!

Though I have no hostility towards any OKW owners (for the record).

 

[chalee94]

Regarding OKW extensions, DVD said “pay us today for something you cannot use for 35 years”. Many OKW owners thought this wasn’t a good idea for many reasons. What’s up with the hostility about members who said thanks, but no thanks to this “deal”?

It wasn't just a question of value, but yes, I was in the group that said i'd rather buy 1/3 or so of the points now for $75ish per pt resale that I could use immediately rather pay $25 per pt for points I couldn't use for 35 years.

But let's step back and look at the OKW extension from the perspective of some of these supposed "spoiled brats."

When DVC offered the extension, it was in terms of "pay for this extension now or else sign this quitclaim to deed the extension period back to us." If the quitclaim was not signed within a certain period, DVC was using language like "we will place a lien on your contract" and "we can block you from booking stays with your contract."

Some OKW owners did get agitated by the strong arm tactics and looked more closely at the contracts. They said the language indicated that the membership was tied to the ground lease. So Disney had already extended the ownership for all OKW owners to 2057 when they moved the date for the ground lease...but were being sneaky by offering you $25 credit for the "hassle" of notarizing and returning the paperwork. So from the perspective of a few owners, Disney had freely given them an extension for their membership when Disney extended the ground lease and was using that $25 credit as "consideration" to get the rights back for those 15 extended years.

Quick math check - standard contracts for OKW started around 230 pts, so for an owner with 250 pts, Disney was offering them $0.10 per point for the value of their extension from 2042-2057. Then if they wanted the extension (back) for themselves, they would need to pay Disney $15.00 per pt to $25.00 per pt to get it.

So while a lot of us thought the extension was overpriced and turned it down, a few did think they had a legal right to the extension for free. Last I heard, a few of these holdouts are still refusing to sign the quitclaim and Disney appears to have given up trying to push them to do so. It starts to look a bit like they may have a legal leg to stand on.

Which gets to one of several reasons why ClemTig's position looks pretty hopeless. OKW was the test case and most (like me) operated from a position of good faith and said, "I signed up for the contract that expires in 2042, so I don't mind signing over the quitclaim for the extension." But given how things have been going so far for those OKW holdouts, how many BCV owners (for example) do you think might look at both a potential BCV extension offer and the OKW situation and say, "maybe I can get the BCV extension for free, too...?" How many BCV or BWV "brats" do you think might be out there?

It just ain't happening...

More reading for those 2 people out there who are bored and interested in more discussion about the OKW extension history:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/okw-contract-extension-quitclaim-deed.2393247/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvcs-old-key-west-extension-ordeal.3078317/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/how-did-okw-extension-work.3169504/

 

[EM Lawrence]

So regarding OKW, could any current resale buyer contact DVC and purchase the extension for $25 pp? Do they still offer it?

 

[chalee94]

So regarding OKW, could any current resale buyer contact DVC and purchase the extension for $25 pp? Do they still offer it?

I'd have to hunt for an old post to confirm it but I believe they stopped doing any of the extensions a few years ago.

Updated with link - as of 2017, they reportedly did not allow it.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/old-key-west-extension-question.3624555/

 

[EM Lawrence]

Thank you for finding that!

 

[Disneysweetheart23]

This is a logical assumption. It makes sense to me.

But this is not what the rest of the timeshare industry has experienced. Non-DVC timeshares sell for thousands direct but pennies on the resale market.

I think that industry delta is part of why DVC management has been moving DVC toward the industry standard over the last several years... Lots of people still "feel" that purchasing direct is more "legitimate" and "magical" while resale is akin to a dark alley purchase from some guy in a trenchcoat...even if the math and logic dictate otherwise...

This made me giggle as it’s so true!

 

[Wakey]

BCV and to a lesser extent my preferred resort BWV are overpriced.

The figures don’t work and if they don’t work I can’t buy as an emotional purchase.

I also stay in 1 beds so can book BWV and more often then not BCV on 7 months anyway.

 

[Eric Smith]

Why would you say that? The extension was a poor economic value for the owners. The resale market has never even come close to valuing an extended contract at the price DVD was/is charging for it.

FWIW, I've never owned OKW, but if I did, I wouldn't accept the offer, either.

To add to this, OKW opened in 1991. So let’s assume owners mostly bought in during the first few years it was open. That means that the owners will have owned the contracts for around 50 years by the original 2042 expiration. Most people would not live long enough to see much benefit from the extension.

 

[AdamsMum]

Why would you say that? The extension was a poor economic value for the owners. The resale market has never even come close to valuing an extended contract at the price DVD was/is charging for it.

FWIW, I've never owned OKW, but if I did, I wouldn't accept the offer, either.

In addition to that, many owners of the 2042 resorts will be quite old then. Not everyone wants a timeshare "in perpetuity". Precisely the reason not to buy some other timeshares. I'll be 85 when my BWV/BC points expire. Why would I purchase an extension that could end up being a liability for my heirs. Who knows what annual dues and ticket prices will be by then?

 

[deedubb]

I have been wondering the same thing. I love staying at an Epcot resort, so I have been looking to add a BWV or BCV contract. The more I think about it though, BCV is overpriced. If I buy enough points for a 1 week stay every year and compare that to renting points every year for the same 1 week stay, by the end of the contract I will have saved money, but it's not a huge amount and I am spending a lot of that money up front in buying the contract. As the years go by, the contract will not be worth anything to sell as it gets closer to the expiry date, compared to some contracts that expire in 40 years, which will still be worth something in 10-20 years. The upside is you avoid the aggravation of having to find someone to rent points from and all the potential downsides that come with that. The cost of BWV still has value in my mind, but not sure about BCV at $140-150. I'm just wondering why the BCV prices haven't come down to reflect that. Am I missing something?

 

[chalee94]

I'm just wondering why the BCV prices haven't come down to reflect that. Am I missing something?

supply and demand?

BCV is high demand due to the uniqueness of Stormalong Bay. It's also about half the size of BWV:

BWV - 97 Dedicated Studios - 130 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 0 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 149 Lockoffs - 7 Grand Villas = 383 Villas / 532 Max. Available

BCV - 36 Dedicated Studios - 20 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 78 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 74 Lockoffs - 0 Grand Villas = 208 VIllas / 282 Max. Available

 

[deedubb]

supply and demand?

BCV is high demand due to the uniqueness of Stormalong Bay. It's also about half the size of BWV:

BWV - 97 Dedicated Studios - 130 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 0 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 149 Lockoffs - 7 Grand Villas = 383 Villas / 532 Max. Available

BCV - 36 Dedicated Studios - 20 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 78 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 74 Lockoffs - 0 Grand Villas = 208 VIllas / 282 Max. Available

Wow, didn't know there were so few studios at BCV, which really bums me out because I was able to book it at 7 months for our July trip which I have since canceled.

 

[Frederic Civish]

A lot of the owners of the 2042 contracts have been owners for 25 years or more, now. This means that if they bought when they were 30, they are now approaching 60. They have probably taken their children, and their children's children, and just don't need it as much anymore. They are reaching an age group where they are more likely to sell. So I expect the price of the 2042 resorts to finally drop more than the more recent resorts. More contracts will be on the market. I don't know how much price will come down. i don't think THIS will be the big reckoning, where people realize that by purchasing a 2042 resort, they are paying more for less, but it could be the beginning of the price correction.

I don't own at Boardwalk or Beach Club, but I would LOVE to buy one of them, if the price ever gets low enough to be in line with the years remaining. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[tellingson]

Some other food for thought. Very few who own the contract upon expiration will be the original owners. There may be a slight discount for existing owners, but I don't think Disney is going to do anything extreme because of their "loyal" customers. The loyal customers are already likely dead and the current owners are heirs or resale purchases. The former hasn't purchased the loyalty and the later Disney is at war with.