2020 points chart has been revised to be closer to 2019

[MouseHoneyMoon96]

I agree and they are making money hand over fist. I know I am a shareholder. They have to be careful with the way they treat guests. I look at this as a service level. The more they raise prices and keep inflating everything it is going to shave off some of thier market share. People trust Disney to give them good value. People give them upwards of 6-10,000 dollars for a vacation. That alone should be enough. If they continue to raise deluxe resort pricing I think it will trickle over to the DVC side at some point.
I don't know i am thinking out loud but hard to look past the greed year over year. I already don't go to the parks like I used to. I tend to use the week stay as a way to do other things in the area. Disney Springs, Resort Hopping, Premium Outlets, Millennia Mall, etc. I have money to do the parks but I just don't feel as welcome as I did 5 years ago when prices were below 100 per park per day and the hopper add on was not that bad.

It has amazed me how Disney can raise their prices each year while many of us are seeing less in our paychecks. Unfortunately, like many have said on the forums, supply and demand is on Disney's side. As long as people keep coming to the parks and spending money the price will continue to rise. I do believe DVC has allowed me to save money while staying in resorts I couldn't or wouldn't afford at a rack rate but it hasn't been without a hefty investment. In the end, as long as Disney doesn't completely kill resales we should all make out ok. Worst case we just rent out all of our points and vacation elsewhere. At almost $20/pt for rentals, I would be making money

 

[CraigInPA]

I think another factor that caused them to revert was the potential tidal wave of requests for 25 point contracts to bring those members who had just enough points for a week up to the amount needed under the proposed new point schedule. They can barely fill wait lists now.

Imagine what would happen if you suddenly had thousands of members:
1. upset that they only had enough points for 5 or 6 nights, instead of a full week.
2. upset that there are wait lists with hundreds of names on them for every use year and resort, with little likelihood of being able to fulfill them.

That would have been a public relations nightmare.

 

[Donna M]

I wonder what prompted them to backtrack. Did they find out that they can't really do anything they want? I'm happy with this change though.

Here's a good response I read on another thread that would answer your question too.

Beach of fiduciary duties, interpretations of ambiguities in favor of the less sophisticated parties, and purposeful deception are not opinions, that's the law. I have no idea if you are an attorney or not, but you are wrong about it just being an opinion. The POS doesn't govern squat once challenged as it was here. Laws govern things. Disney balked before a lawsuit could be brought against them, and trust me, one was coming. I can put whatever I want to in a contract, that doesn't make it enforceable, conscionable, or legal. While my focus was criminal law, I did spend a few years in the civil sector and have consulted on a number of civil cases in the last few years. They didn't roll it back because of member feedback. There are so many legal issues with the reallocation that they probably wouldn't have won no matter how many lawyers they brought out. There are just as many, actually more, attorneys in private practice that would LOVE to sue Disney and win.

 

[dcibrando]

glad this happened... I can still see them making some changes in 2021 though... possibly lowering 1 bedrooms and increasing 2's or GV's perhaps

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

The problem I have with this is that it never smelled right. It went against everything I had been told as a buyer in 1999. Great news that it was fixed but very bad news they tried to pull a fast one hoping no one would notice. If you can't trust management to live up to the letter of a contract who is to say that they don't do other underhanded things like oversell. A person who does one will do another and its much harder to tell when that happens. This is a big black eye IMO. The huge increase in dues was bad enough , the exorbitant price of park tickets and the huge crowds all contribute to making it harder to justify buying now.

I was pretty taken back on the dues going up so much. There actually have been a lot of changes (even the resale market is being stressed) to DVC and I don't know if I am seeing DVC in the same light anymore with food pricing going up, tickets going to a day-to-day pricing and the constant pricing changes to tickets and hotels and it is just wearing on me. I was excited that I had paid my loan off and I was considering putting down close to another 10000 dollars for a add on. I may just reallocate that to some other kind of quality of life investment. I just don't know anymore.

 

[lorilaismommie]

I think another factor that caused them to revert was the potential tidal wave of requests for 25 point contracts to bring those members who had just enough points for a week up to the amount needed under the proposed new point schedule. They can barely fill wait lists now.

Imagine what would happen if you suddenly had thousands of members:
1. upset that they only had enough points for 5 or 6 nights, instead of a full week.
2. upset that there are wait lists with hundreds of names on them for every use year and resort, with little likelihood of being able to fulfill them.

That would have been a public relations nightmare.

I think this is exactly what Disney was hoping for along with the added points for the lock-off premium.

I read an article that Disney ROFR a lot of contracts making DEC 2018 a record high month of buy backs.
paired with the huge price increase across most DVC resorts Disney would have made a killing.

I don't think we have seen the end of this.. Disney not about to let that kind of money go..
they are just going to come at it a different way. Maybe smaller increases at only a couple resorts each year?
I'm betting Disney will find a way.

 

[kniquy]

I think another factor that caused them to revert was the potential tidal wave of requests for 25 point contracts to bring those members who had just enough points for a week up to the amount needed under the proposed new point schedule. They can barely fill wait lists now.

Imagine what would happen if you suddenly had thousands of members:
1. upset that they only had enough points for 5 or 6 nights, instead of a full week.
2. upset that there are wait lists with hundreds of names on them for every use year and resort, with little likelihood of being able to fulfill them.

That would have been a public relations nightmare.

I actually think they really wanted to have people scrambling to add on. They raised their direct prices, but the resale market has not adjusted yet. This would mean they could scoop up a poly contract via ROFR at $145-150 pp and then turn around and sell it at $235 pp -- that is a pretty good profit for very little work if you ask me. This is how they would crush the resale market. It is rather weird that they have such long waitlist when there are so many resale contracts out there, but their increase in direct pricing might make exercising ROFR rates increase. Making resale purchases more difficult or reliable. Probably part of the master plan. It is all making sense now.

 

[bababear_50]

For me it had the opposite effect,,I decided to sell one of my contracts,,I've lost a bit of that *Disney Magic*.
My reason for selling it are..................

1. 10% dues increase

2. 2020 Points reallocation (without notice),,then revised 2020 points chart (without notice).
(all of a sudden I am short points for one of my weekly trips ... but hey for a small point add on????)

3. Direct buy in price increase just as the posted points reallocation goes into effect.

Lack of direct member upfront communication and timely notice regarding changes just is not the way to run any business.

Top everything off with a very poor score on room cleanliness last visit.

And last but not least *having to walk a reservation just to get a week in a standard room in Jan* ,not my idea of a fun way to book a vacation.

I am glad I check in every once in awhile on these boards or I would never even know of some of the changes DVC is making without
notifying it's membership.
I am surprised with social media being what it is , that they are not being as transparent as they should be.

Regards
Mel

 

[dfb]

Can someone give me a summary of what happened with the 2020 points charts. I understand there was an re allocation and now I understand it has been revised back to 2018/2019 points structure. What was different about this re allocation than the several others from the past years?

Sorry I've been out of the loop for a while and my kids me asked me about the stuff DVc was doing with points and perks?? Trying to find out.

 

[dfb]

Ok I finally found some of the other post concerning this topic. So apparently DVC raised the total number of points for the entire 2020 chart on some or all resorts?? Is that it???

I assume the chart revision has already taken place? The total number of points for Bay Lake Tower is the same in 2020 as it has been since 2013. Been a member since 2009. I haven't pulled all the charts but I don't recall an overall increase in points. There has been at least two points re allocations that I remember since 2009.

I guess I missed all the hub bub?? DVC has made a liar out of my DVC guide so many times I'm starting to loose count. (My apologies to the online lawyers, "it's not a lie - it's in the contract") In the human world though, it was a huge misrepresentation of the product. In my eyes it's a flat out lie!!!

Regardless, we have used the hound out of our DVC purchase so I can't curse it too badly!!! Maybe???

 

[bumbershoot]

Please help me out as I have been away for a few days and haven't read through all the new posts in all the threads. When you say "Its exactly the same", do you mean the same 2020 points that DVC announced a month or so ago? Or do you mean, the 2020 point changes have reverted back to the 2019 point structure? We stay a lot (GFV lv and BCV) and always stay in studios so the change was quite a big deal for me

Thanks for asking that. I was super-confused by that answer as well.

 

[drusba]

Ok I finally found some of the other post concerning this topic. So apparently DVC raised the total number of points for the entire 2020 chart on some or all resorts?? Is that it???

I assume the chart revision has already taken place? The total number of points for Bay Lake Tower is the same in 2020 as it has been since 2013. Been a member since 2009. I haven't pulled all the charts but I don't recall an overall increase in points. There has been at least two points re allocations that I remember since 2009.

I guess I missed all the hub bub?? DVC has made a liar out of my DVC guide so many times I'm starting to loose count. (My apologies to the online lawyers, "it's not a lie - it's in the contract") In the human world though, it was a huge misrepresentation of the product. In my eyes it's a flat out lie!!!

Regardless, we have used the hound out of our DVC purchase so I can't curse it too badly!!! Maybe???

The revised 2020 charts that reverted back to the 2019 point schedule are now in place (and already being used by those who are including Jan 1, 2020 and after in trips beginning during Christmas week). The original 2020 point charts did something that had never been done before in any substantial way: reallocated by raising the points needed for studios and 1BRs for much of the year and attempting to offset that with a decrease in 2BRs for part or much of the year.

The main dispute was whether reallocation that raised points for one sized room and offset that increase by a decrease in a different sized room was proper and fair, and legally allowed based on representations made over the years and contract terms. It is disputable that DVC actually raised the total number of points applicable to a resort, and some on these boards who have done the calculations have asserted the total points were not raised by the original 2020 charts that have now been removed.

 

[LRdismom]

First time poster here. I own at Poly (since 2015) and have been following this discussion closely. I just want to give a huge thank you to all of the members who called DVC to complain about this, resulting in them reversing their changes to the 2020 points chart. I considered calling myself several times, but never did. Thanks again!

 

[dfb]

The revised 2020 charts that reverted back to the 2019 point schedule are now in place (and already being used by those who are including Jan 1, 2020 and after in trips beginning during Christmas week). The original 2020 point charts did something that had never been done before in any substantial way: reallocated by raising the points needed for studios and 1BRs for much of the year and attempting to offset that with a decrease in 2BRs for part or much of the year.

The main dispute was whether reallocation that raised points for one sized room and offset that increase by a decrease in a different sized room was proper and fair, and legally allowed based on representations made over the years and contract terms. It is disputable that DVC actually raised the total number of points applicable to a resort, and some on these boards who have done the calculations have asserted the total points were not raised by the original 2020 charts that have now been removed.

Ok Thanks.

Just to be clear, did the actual number of points for the entire chart increase?

For example I own at BLT the total points summed for the entire chart is 6309 for the current 2020 chart. I compared against the 2019, 2018, 2017 and a 2013/2014 chart and all years show total points 6309.

Was the issue that some/all resorts have an increase of total points, let's say from 6309 to 6399 or whatever? Or was the issue that, in the originally proposed 2020 chart, a studio that cost 17 points a night now cost 19 and a 2 BR somewhere on the chart was lowered 2 points and the total summed chart points stayed 6309?

Sorry to be slow on this but as I read thru the other posts I'm hearing different issues/arguments.

 

[Unit3875]

I am glad that Disney revised the 2020 point charts back to 2019 levels, but I really really hope that Disney did so because that THERE IS a problem with them raising points in one room type and offsetting it by reducing another room type. I bought into DVC believing that any point increase in a room type would be offset by a decrease elsewhere WITHIN that room type, such as moving dates to a different season. I see the legitimacy in seasonal movement to regulate demand.
Aside from seasonal movement, discussions I had with guides always led me to believe that I would always be able to take a consistent vacation each year.. no one ever said point cost was a moving target.

I wouldn't have considered buying another type of time share.
Disney needs to protect its "magic" image. The past 2 months have seen it take a hit.
The 2020 point reallocation, dues increase, membership changes, stealth direct price point increase, etc. all at once.

Now we all wonder, what's next? Trust is hard to earn, but easy to lose.

 

[CraigInPA]

Summing the chart isn't accurate because that would assume that the number of standard, lake, and theme park views are all equal, as would be the number of studios, 1br, 2br, and GV's. We know that isn't the case. In order to determine whether the number of points increased or not, you would need to know the exact number of each type. Then, you'd need to account for the 2br lockoff "premium" (the sum of the 1br and studio exceeds the value of the 2br lock off, so you'd need to know how many of these were booked in a year as 2br lock offs). Since some of this information only sits at DVCMC and is not published, there is really no way to know if the number of points increased or not.

 

[DSLRuser]

Ok Thanks.

Just to be clear, did the actual number of points for the entire chart increase?

For example I own at BLT the total points summed for the entire chart is 6309 for the current 2020 chart. I compared against the 2019, 2018, 2017 and a 2013/2014 chart and all years show total points 6309.

The entire problem was behind the scenes accounting was dealing with points in the millions for resorts like saratoga.

very rough example and over simplified

4,000 rooms x 10 points a day = 40,000 points a day at that resort x 365 days a year = 14,600,000 points to play with.

after they shift some of the peak vs non peak times around, it becomes easy to discount one or two points for a 2 or 3 bedroom while raising the point cost by 4 or 6 points for studio and 1 bedroom. Again...lots of math behind the scenes we never see.

Disney always banked on the behind the scenes math, but literature referred to the upfront points charts you reference.

 

[hakepb]

Ok Thanks.

Just to be clear, did the actual number of points for the entire chart increase?

For example I own at BLT the total points summed for the entire chart is 6309 for the current 2020 chart. I compared against the 2019, 2018, 2017 and a 2013/2014 chart and all years show total points 6309.

Was the issue that some/all resorts have an increase of total points, let's say from 6309 to 6399 or whatever? Or was the issue that, in the originally proposed 2020 chart, a studio that cost 17 points a night now cost 19 and a 2 BR somewhere on the chart was lowered 2 points and the total summed chart points stayed 6309?

Sorry to be slow on this but as I read thru the other posts I'm hearing different issues/arguments.

Point totals need to be calculated by applying the points/day * all units in that category for every day of the year.
It’s not as easy as adding a few dozen #’s on the chart. (One of the early BLT changes removed rooms from Theme park view and added to Standard view)

In the redacted 2020 charts, Studio + 1BR went up more in total than what was offset by total 2BR decreases.
This is the “lockoff premium”. Legally the points must balance by booking all units....but that is calculated by calculating all 2BR lockoffs as a 2BR. It always cost a few more points to book a 1BR + studio vs 2BR, but they increased that premium.
In a resort like SSR (with no dedicated studio or 1BR) that allowed them to raise studio and 1BR without a corresponding seasonal or 2BR+ decrease.

I’m kinda surprised Poly was changed back to 2019, because they didn’t have any 1BR or 2BR lockoffs...it was just moving points from season to season and also Bungalow to Studios and the charts still balanced.

(Some question moving points between units, but several years back, SSR moved points from studios and 1BR to THV, and created the standard/preferred categories which shifted points from building to building)

 

[Matty B13]

I’m kinda surprised Poly was changed back to 2019, because they didn’t have any 1BR or 2BR lockoffs...it was just moving points from season to season and also Bungalow to Studios and the charts still balanced.

Poly had a lot of Direct new owners, who probably bought just enough for a weeks stay in a studio. DVC probably got an ear full from them after they couldn't stay for the week they were "promised" by their guides.

 

[crvetter]

Poly had a lot of Direct new owners, who probably bought just enough for a weeks stay in a studio. DVC probably got an ear full from them after they couldn't stay for the week they were "promised" by their guides.

Also likely they didn't want to miss-align the costs between VGF and Poly. I also think it is possible my point brought up to Yvonne might also stand, since they never denied it but rather offered an excuse why it no longer applied.