2010 DVC Annual Meeting Report

[Sammie]

True we don't know what will be offered. But as TJ, said many do not remember the friendly DVC, versus the profit driven DVC.

Regardless of how it is spinned, this is about sales. They can dress it up with a fancy name and try to convince us it as member feedback but it is just another measure of they need help selling a product that in my opinion is not as desireable as it once was.

If resales were not hurting them, then there would be no sepration between direct sale and resale.

I don't know about the anyone else, but even years ago my purchase was not cheap, due are certainly not cheap and yet they expect me to help keep their villas clean for them and sell for them too.

I don't think so.

Plus if referrals are really going to net members extra perks, doesn't anyone else see the potential for this program to be abused. My gosh you will have members hanging out on forums such as these, sending Private Messages to anyone thinking about buying hoping for a referral.

 

[dj~merlin]

well , this is what i think. as soon as the owner with 1600
points "announced" he was in the renting business, $10 per point,
was an example why new changes are needed.

let me guess, no way to use 1600 points. so the person
jsut happened to buy them to show them off?

pretty darn evident, what has been going on the last couple
of years. we didn't buy points for an investment [ $ ], or
to start a new business. we purchased a product, a dvc
room for our future disney vacations.

 

[tjkraz]

Regardless of how it is spinned, this is about sales. They can dress it up with a fancy name and try to convince us it as member feedback but it is just another measure of they need help selling a product that in my opinion is not as desireable as it once was.

If resales were not hurting them, then there would be no sepration between direct sale and resale.

That's a spurious argument. You could make that claim about every move DVC has made over the last 20 years. Just fill in the blanks.

If sales weren't hurting, why would they offer 10 years of free park passes?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they create a standard view at the BoardWalk?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they create a Magical Beginnings program and offer to buy back points for $10 each?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they give us an AP discount?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they give free cruises and developer's points as sales incentives?

If sales weren't hurting, why would the put extra bathrooms in units?

If sales weren't hurting, why free Internet and flat panel TV upgrades?

Disney is a business. DVC is a business. And every single move that they have made since the gates opened was driven by business reasons. Fortunately, good business and good customer service are not mutually exclusive. Believe it or not, members actually benefit from things like discount programs, free Internet, larger units, more destinations, better furnishings and computer upgrades, regardless of what motivations you wish to ascribe to DVC management.

The only thing that has changed, IMO, is that 10+ years ago you saw their business decisions as heartwarming gestures designed to praise and thank. Now you choose to paint similar moves as nefarious and underhanded.

Sorry that the rose colored glasses fell by the wayside.

 

[Sammie]

That's a spurious argument. You could make that claim about every move DVC has made over the last 20 years. Just fill in the blanks.

If sales weren't hurting, why would they offer 10 years of free park passes?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they create a standard view at the BoardWalk?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they create a Magical Beginnings program and offer to buy back points for $10 each?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they give us an AP discount?

If sales weren't hurting, why would they give free cruises and developer's points as sales incentives?

If sales weren't hurting, why would the put extra bathrooms in units?

If sales weren't hurting, why free Internet and flat panel TV upgrades?

Disney is a business. DVC is a business. And every single move that they have made since the gates opened was driven by business reasons. Fortunately, good business and good customer service are not mutually exclusive. Believe it or not, members actually benefit from things like discount programs, free Internet, larger units, more destinations, better furnishings and computer upgrades, regardless of what motivations you wish to ascribe to DVC management.

The only thing that has changed, IMO, is that 10+ years ago you saw their business decisions as heartwarming gestures designed to praise and thank. Now you choose to paint similar moves as nefarious and underhanded.

Sorry that the rose colored glasses fell by the wayside.

You know TJ, it is seems that regardless of what they do, you will steadfastly defend them. That is fine, maybe I am confused for at one time it seemed you could see them as clearly as others did but lately you can find no wrong in them at all. Maybe I have you confused with someone else.

If I did not know better, one would think you are Jim Lewis in disguise.

I definitely am not seeing them through rose colored glasses. I see them for what they are, a business, that the focus is money over anything else. Of course they have always wanted to make money, but it was not the focus and as you said yourself you were not there to experience the difference.

Which believe it or not, is fine. I am stock holder I want them to make money.

I just wish they would stop spinning it all as member enhancements, member feedback and simply say, we are doing this to make money.

I could care less about internet access, fancy TVs, discounts on passes, etc etc. I simply want what I paid for. Access to DVC resorts at 11 months at my home resort and 7 months for nonhome on an even booking plane with everyone else.

I did not call them underhanded or defarious, I simply think they try very hard to candy coat the truth.

The part that bothers me the most is they will try to sell this as something that everyone will benefit from. That simply is not possible and that is fine too. But call it what it is, a high rollers club.

Believe me it would be easier to take.

And honestly it truly does not bother me personally. All my points are direct purchase. I have enough to let Daddio rent them for me and stay where I want on property for a week and get free dining. I just think if they set up a system where all are not equal it will become what they have always said they weren't, just another timeshare company.

But you know others feel the same way, you might want to be an equal opportunity poster and set them straight too, or pretty soon it will look like you only enjoy calling me out, which I know is not true.

 

[tjkraz]

You know TJ, it is seems that regardless of what they do, you will steadfastly defend them. That is fine, maybe I am confused for at one time it seemed you could see them as clearly as others did but lately you can find no wrong in them at all. Maybe I have you confused with someone else.

What exactly am I defending?

This seems to be more about perception than anything else. From the day I signed on the dotted line I have always been prepared for Disney to operate the program in a manner which would optimize their own proceeds. Fortunately growing the business and treating customers well typically go hand in hand.

With all of the tilting at windmills that occurs--like this very post--you'll have to help refresh my memory. Was there some negative policy decision on which I did not display a suitable level of outrage?

I just wish they would stop spinning it all as member enhancements, member feedback and simply say, we are doing this to make money.

Can you think of any examples in which corporations do as you suggest? Have Chrysler, McDonald's, Apple, GE...any company you can think of...ever said "we are doing ___ because we want to make more money?"

I did not call them underhanded or defarious, I simply think they try very hard to candy coat the truth.

Again this is the world we live in. It's Business 101. You try to put the best spin on every decision made.

In all of those promotional shows from the '50s, I don't recall Walt ever saying that he was building Disneyland because he wanted to make buckets of cash. But he certainly didn't have altruistic reasons for building the first theme park.

Walt put a scale railroad system on his property for fun--he built Disneyland because he saw it as a way to make money. Period.

The part that bothers me the most is they will try to sell this as something that everyone will benefit from. That simply is not possible and that is fine too. But call it what it is, a high rollers club.

Based upon what little we know so far, of course it's possible for everyone to benefit. I'm not saying that you need to hand out literature at the theme parks and cover your car with DVC stickers. Even before I started a website, I had people (friends, relatives, friends-of-relatives) asking me about Disney and DVC all the time. And many of those conversations lead to DVC sales--not because I forced it down their throats but because they decided DVC was right for their family just as you and I did at some point.

Ultimately it's your own choice as to whether you wish to participate or not.

And honestly it truly does not bother me personally. All my points are direct purchase. I have enough to let Daddio rent them for me and stay where I want on property for a week and get free dining. I just think if they set up a system where all are not equal it will become what they have always said they weren't, just another timeshare company.

Hard to respond to that since we don't even know what the perks might be. But I will say that if the added benefits are a free refillable mug and membership in D23, I'm hard-pressed to view that as a tipping point for which DVC deserves to be lumped in with all other timeshares.

But you know others feel the same way, you might want to be an equal opportunity poster and set them straight too, or pretty soon it will look like you only enjoy calling me out, which I know is not true.

I did respond to several other posters in this thread. But you do seem to be the only one taking the approach of "DVC is bad because they won't just admit they are in business to make money."

 

[Chuck S]

well , this is what i think. as soon as the owner with 1600
points "announced" he was in the renting business, $10 per point,
was an example why new changes are needed.

let me guess, no way to use 1600 points. so the person
jsut happened to buy them to show them off?

pretty darn evident, what has been going on the last couple
of years. we didn't buy points for an investment [ $ ], or
to start a new business. we purchased a product, a dvc
room for our future disney vacations.

I didn't see where in the report the 1600 point owner stated they were renting out their points, did I miss that, or are you assuming?

I've known several families that could easily have the time to use 1600 points, and had the financial means to own and pay dues on them, without having to rent them.

Lumping all people with over 1000 or 1500 points into a "rental business" category seems like you're painting with a pretty broad brush. I disagree with your post.

 

[kent285]

I didn't see where in the report the 1600 point owner stated they were renting out their points, did I miss that, or are you assuming?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2608033 post #35

 

[RobDoc]

There were two members during the Q&A session who stated that they had 1600 points. One also added that she was paying over $8,000 in annual fees and then joked that she would rent them at $10 per point, if anyone was interested ... hardly a statement that she was a regular renter or that renting was the reason she had purchased that many points.

It's pretty tough to jump to that conclusion based on the actual comment made at the meeting, but then (IMO) there was not enough stated at the meeting to justify the comments and complaints about the apparent upcoming loyalty program. Those that choose to berate DVC for any action (rumored or otherwise) will continue to do so and those willing to wait to see the actual details will patiently wait before passing judgement.

 

[Debbie & Bill]

We have 1200 points and would just be happy if the rooms we're clean soap sum, stained furniture with sagging seats & rugs ect and not so shop worn before renovations. We also own Marriott Vacation Club and the major difference is Marriott is a hospitality company the timeshares are in excellent condition and many rooms reserved of the actual owners with best views, Marriott treats us fantastic, Disney is a entertainmant company with little respect for the actual DVC member we're lumped in to the crowd, this is something we'd like to see change, DVC members are different and we should expect more, but not at other DVC members expence.

 

[Dean]

It would be a violation of FL timshare regualtions to give a minority of members an advantage over the majority since for changes after the initial POS must be done in the best interset of the majority of memebers (not points). unless they set the bar so low that a majority got the "advantage". If they want to do this for a new resort then that would be OK for the home resort priority, but not for the 7 month window.

We all know if this is done it is as a sales tool for DVD.

bookwormde

I don't see anything that would be a violation of FL law directly about such an option though I don't expect this to be one of the choices on the table. The reality is that DVC has already changed the access once giving some members access over others (1 week at a time 11 months out) and that at least 2 other systems larger than DVC and based in FL have given certain members very aggressive early access over other members and done so after the fact. It would be difficult to do at a home resort but would be easy to do at non home resort. All they have to do is change the multi site POS which they have complete control over. The reality is they could even change it for home resort under the reservation control issue which requires no input. Marriott did it by creating a new system and allowing members to opt in for a price. They do segregate the inventory so that only the portion for those opted in are affected or so they say. Bluegreen did it by keeping the same reservation window (11 months) but creating a tiered wait list which is filled before those units are open to the general membership.

 

[Debbie & Bill]

Something else to consider, yes we some rent points. We bought our points and other timeshare's to use as a second home in retirement, what's better then Hawaii and Disney. We bumped into a DVC salesman whom suggested this when had 400 points and the thought of 1200 points seemed crazy, he suggested renting some points, is a excellent perk, now yes Disney should check "our rooms" to be sure of damage, but when I spoke to Disney about room condition's they responded at the front desk...it's the actual DVC menbers that leave the rooms in terriable condition, so go figure. I bring this up because it seems that point renting is a problem for some. My thoughts are at the annual meetings, we'd be best off to hold DVC to the same standards as there hotel rooms and we'd all be it better off.

 

[Debbie & Bill]

I don't see anything that would be a violation of FL law directly about such an option though I don't expect this to be one of the choices on the table. The reality is that DVC has already changed the access once giving some members access over others (1 week at a time 11 months out) and that at least 2 other systems larger than DVC and based in FL have given certain members very aggressive early access over other members and done so after the fact. It would be difficult to do at a home resort but would be easy to do at non home resort. All they have to do is change the multi site POS which they have complete control over. The reality is they could even change it for home resort under the reservation control issue which requires no input. Marriott did it by creating a new system and allowing members to opt in for a price. They do segregate the inventory so that only the portion for those opted in are affected or so they say. Bluegreen did it by keeping the same reservation window (11 months) but creating a tiered wait list which is filled before those units are open to the general membership.

Great post, Marriott went to a two part point system completely open to all resorts for new members but from a special pot of points, original fractional owner's can elect to convert there weeks into points and that's another pot of points, this is a yearly decision. So a simple thought as far as DVC goes and Marriott just as long is there is no conflict to the original owners/members we could elect to be part of something else that might be benifical.
For us we'd be happy to be in that kind of program, being we'd rather go to Hawaii and Califorina well in advance of 7 months.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...It's pretty tough to jump to that conclusion based on the actual comment made at the meeting, but then (IMO) there was not enough stated at the meeting to justify the comments and complaints about the apparent upcoming loyalty program. Those that choose to berate DVC for any action (rumored or otherwise) will continue to do so and those willing to wait to see the actual details will patiently wait before passing judgement.

Sorry, but I guess I've been listening to Jim Lewis long enough to guess that anything thing he says is a member enhancement based on member feedback is anything but.

Just like the OKW renovations. We all expected something on the order of BWV renovations - new furniture, new decor, new Boardwalk look. What we got was ugly repainted furniture without any resemblance to Key West. Done on the cheap.

 

[ftballfan7]

It's important to note that member referrals will count toward participation in this club (or whatever it is ultimately called.) It will not be limited to only members with vast financial resources. In that sense, ANYONE can earn participation if they wish.

Let's face it, those without vast financial resources also don't typically have as many contacts with the vast financial resources to refer DVC to.

 

[Sammie]

Just for the record my comments about the upcoming program are not based at all on the comments made at the meeting, they are based on what I have been told about it prior to the meeting by DVC.

One reason it upsets me I was told that under no circumstance ever would they offer anything that all members, direct purchase or resale, would be excluded from. That anything they offer, all members be it the member with 50 points bought resale and the member that has 2000 points bought direct would always have the same benefits and perks. That DVC would never treat anyone differently.

But until it comes out, I will refrain commenting negatively anymore and go back to helping others plan their trips, for I do enjoy the trips, I just don't care for the antics of management lately.

I do wish everyone a very Merry Christmas.

 

[RobDoc]

Sorry, but I guess I've been listening to Jim Lewis long enough to guess that anything thing he says is a member enhancement based on member feedback is anything but.

Just like the OKW renovations. We all expected something on the order of BWV renovations - new furniture, new decor, new Boardwalk look. What we got was ugly repainted furniture without any resemblance to Key West. Done on the cheap.

Thanks for making my point - "Those that choose to berate DVC for any action (rumored or otherwise) will continue to do so and those willing to wait to see the actual details will patiently wait before passing judgement."

With the exception of the operation of the Roman Shades, we like the OKW renovation - but that's just my personal opinion. Some seem to always choose to berate DVC for any action.

Just for the record my comments about the upcoming program are not based at all on the comments made at the meeting, they are based on what I have been told about it prior to the meeting by DVC.

Are you saying that you have received announcement from DVC of the details of the Loyalty Program? Why not share all of those details here since no one else seems to have had privilege to that information?

 

[Sammie]

Thanks for making my point - "Those that choose to berate DVC for any action (rumored or otherwise) will continue to do so and those willing to wait to see the actual details will patiently wait before passing judgement."

With the exception of the operation of the Roman Shades, we like the OKW renovation - but that's just my personal opinion. Some seem to always choose to berate DVC for any action.



Are you saying that you have received announcement from DVC of the details of the Loyalty Program? Why not share all of those details here since no one else seems to have had privilege to that information?

No, I don't have any specifics about what will be offered. What I was told was there would never be such a program. Anything else shared is not official just talk between friends shared at our weekly dinner and I would never disclose what my friends share.

But this has been under consideration for a while which is why the survey about it was sent out and also why the emails about names for the program was sent out.

What I was told officially was there would never be such a program, ever. So we see where that went.

 

[bookwormde]

Dean

State timeshare regualtions take precident over any revisions to the POS

I think we have all had our fill of "member enhancements" that feel more like DVD sales items or just do not make sense.

Yes there have been some improvements, but on balance?

bookwormde

 

[Debbie & Bill]

Sorry, but I guess I've been listening to Jim Lewis long enough to guess that anything thing he says is a member enhancement based on member feedback is anything but.

Just like the OKW renovations. We all expected something on the order of BWV renovations - new furniture, new decor, new Boardwalk look. What we got was ugly repainted furniture without any resemblance to Key West. Done on the cheap.

Besides having great names like you guy's, we've had our share of disappointment, but fantastic time's too. Seems we have similuar complaints...distant long awaited and cheap renovations but what get's to us is the seeming lack of outrage by more DVC members. We take the good with the bad, accept we're all sharing something, but it also seems that we've come to expect less from DVC and found the cast members at the front desk have also become less able to help with room selection and problems. Last trip SRR we had warm refrig, huge hornets nest on the lani, and a plugged bathroom sink. Nothing was done till after 3 call's and at 10:30pm.

 

[Sammie]

Besides having great names like you guy's, we've had our share of disappointment, but fantastic time's too. Seems we have similuar complaints...distant long awaited and cheap renovations but what get's to us is the seeming lack of outrage by more DVC members. We take the good with the bad, accept we're all sharing something, but it also seems that we've come to expect less from DVC and found the cast members at the front desk have also become less able to help with room selection and problems. Last trip SRR we had warm refrig, huge hornets nest on the lani, and a plugged bathroom sink. Nothing was done till after 3 call's and at 10:30pm.

Debbie, next time you have any problems that a phone call does not resolve, stop in at the front desk, ask to speak to the on duty manager, do not let the CM at the desk convince you they can handle it, simply say no obviously you can't since I have already called this in and it was not fixed. Also be sure to call Housekeeping and never the Front Desk, and get a name. Most likely the person who answers the phone has been outsourced.

SSR has some of the best managers on property but sadly they are not made aware of problems.