2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[Pumbaa_]

Jamie, we have not heard that here on the DIS. We do have a few servers that come and post and no one has said that Disney witholds part of their tip. You should be ok there.

 

[trivial]

I know at a place my son used to work, if the customer used a credit card, the employer kept a certain percentage. I think it was whatever the credit card fee was to the employer.

That sounds like theft to me... and if not theft, something legally questionable at best. I would be shocked to hear that anything like this goes on at Disney.

 

[Family5LovesDisney]

Although I am disappointed that the tip is no longer included in the plan, the plan still makes sense to me. Especially, when you consider that you are charged a set price for a character dinner based on your children's ages and not on the amount they eat. I did the math with or without the DDP and found that although I COULD save a little bit of money if I ate more counter service meals and took out some nice sit-down meals, it really wasn't worth it to save only a little bit of $$$ for my trip. Why count pennies when I am on vacation? !
As far as the whole DDP goes, I have traveled to Disney through the years and I was thrilled when they began to offer this. I know that eating in the parks is expensive and anything that does save me a little money is a bonus!

 

[Princess Stitch]

We never ordered appetizeers, so that change does not bother us.

Tips - we normally do 15%.
Why 18 % - if you have to tip and is not on 2008 DDP ?
For buffets we do 10% - we get our own food - only drinks are served.
So for an $80 breakfast CP buffet, our tip would just be $8.

Are we being cheap ?

Actually, around where I live 15% is customary. If I didn't have the DDP (or the DIS) that's probably what I would have tipped at Disney because I woudln't have known any better. I usually adjust my tip based on how many people are in the party and how much we order. If it's just me and my boyfriend and we just order entrees and drinks then the waiter/waitress is doing no more work bringing us a $30 steak then she would be bringing us a $10 burger. I'd probably leave about $5 either way which would most likely work out to an overtip on the burgers or an undertip on the steaks. If the server goes above and beyond or is just a fantastic server we've left as much as a 100% tip before. Unfortunately, encounters with good servers seem to be few and far between.

Now, if we're ordering appetizers, desserts etc, or have more people in our party, then the server is doing alot more work and our tip will generally come out to over 15%. IMO if a table of 4 has the same dollar amount on a bill as a table of 2, the server should receive a bigger tip from the table of 4 because it's more work to keep 4 drinks full and 4 people happy than 2.

 

[jamstew]

That sounds like theft to me... and if not theft, something legally questionable at best. I would be shocked to hear that anything like this goes on at Disney.

I should point out that this was not a food service business. It was an upscale "concept salon" (won't use the name) that I think is franchised but I'm not sure. Anyway, the company apparently sets all the policies, but I'm not sure if the tip holdback was company or local owner. The employees were aware of it, I think when they were hired, but I don't remember now. Anyway, most of the stylists/nail techs, etc., let their regular clients know so they can tip in cash.

 

[DisneyTabby]

I was called today by a girl named Alexis from Disney in regards to an email I sent about how unhappy I was about the gratuity and losing the appetizer without a choice of that or a dessert. She told me they were getting alot of feedback on that and the gratuity and when I asked her if we would have a choice she said she couldn't comment on it but it was being looked into at this time. She didn't say anything about the gratuity but that they were giving guests a choice of leaving what they wanted as a tip based on the service they receive. She gave me her phone number for any further questions. It just sounded as if the gratuity won't change.



Disney bound in 15 days!!!!

 

[4myrrh1]

Ok, I admit I did not want to tip for bad service. But you have to remember the Disney Dining Plan is given away for the summer end park guests and I feel that probably caused many problems for the guests that found ADR's hard to get and walk up service not available. I was never able to visit when the free dining was offered so for the sake of argument lets just call me a paying guest. The availability to visit Disney World using the Dining Plan was a prime reason that my family stayed onsite and also visited both in 2006 and 2007. Both visits were in February and both times we used the Dining Plan.
I can see the issue with the plan not being cost effective if the costs are included when it is a promotional item for the free dining promotion. But to ask the --Paying customer-- to lose so much of the value that was in this years plan is to harsh. I could never, ever see a reason to give a free dining promotion and cause the restaurant crowding and then turn around and dramatically increase the cost to paying customers.

I need to see three things take place to feel that Disney is consumer friendly for my family again.
1. I need a plan that includes the appetizer like this year does.
2. I will pay a reasonable price to get Disney Dining Plan but it also should allow the diner to not tip if service is not satisfactory.
3. I may like an upgraded plan available but with the Deluxe Disney Dining Plan as it is currently configured there will be an increase in the amount of dissatisfied customers who cannot get signature dining because it has been --OVERSOLD---. You cannot expect to have available dinner slots this year for all the people looking to use up the table service credits that were sold to them on the new Deluxe Plan. If people see that even the much higher priced Deluxe plan cannot provide the promised value due availability then overall visits to the resort and theme park will decrease.

The biggest question is how can a promotional item for summer guests require such an enormous price increase for the normal paying guest?

 

[MrOakie]

I've been reading through all the comments here and other threads about the DDP. I'm sure there are many reasons behind the changes. Personally, I believe one of the biggest changes is reflected in rising food prices. If you look at your home grocery expenses over the last year, you'll see a tremendous increase (about 6 1/2% over the last year). I work for a frozen food company, and we've had to raise prices as well. If you do the math, a family of 5 is paying over $100 more per month on groceries than they were last year. Its hitting service industries just as hard.

While I'm sure the rising food prices isn't the only reason Disney has changed the plan, I'm sure it had to be a major factor. My DW and I will be going in January, and we'll be doing the 2008 Basic plan (can't justify the deluxe). The appetizer doesn't really bother us, nor does the tip. No one should be guaranteed 18% tip. You should have to earn it. We'll tip more for a good server, and less for a bad one. We're also going to give special thank you's to good servers.

 

[ehagerty]

..... we've vacationed through

• the early 80's - which must have been the very first food plan, so wonderfully, poorly conceived and executed that it it included UNLIMITED food and ALCOHOL (including bottles of wine) and TIP for some really low amount. Dinner for two, easily $200 (1980 dollars) with all sorts of encouragement and suggestion of the wait staff. Twenty-five inflation years later, they will never top that value-for-the-dollar.

• The early 90's - where we were issued vouchers as a part of a Disney package (no line item price, just "included") - similar to DDP, only they didn't expire on checkout - but usually within a year

• Followed by the Disney-meal-free (for us) mid-90's, where "the plan" was to pre-purchase some sort of dining dollars at a savings of 10% (we didn't use this - no particular reason, just didn't want to tie up money for "only" 10% savings) - I think "the deal" was to buy $55 of food dollars for $50 - whatever

• Followed by being able to BUY the original 90's vouchers directly from an "entertainment club" (Connections). But they stopped that program a couple of years ago - so we went back to eating in our DVC room.

• Starting last year, we were thrilled to see the DDP available to DVC-ers - with many more restaurants participating than were available on the vouchers. This set me off on my signature dining-photo spree, which we have enjoyed IMMENSELY, including our first meal at California Grill

What have I learned?

• No program lasts forever
• No matter what the program, there is only one way to evaluate:
  
  • research
  • homework
  • no emotion
  While I am not happy with the changes for 2008, and I am 90% sure that I will not be using the DDP next year, I will only make that decision AFTER I work up a spreadsheet - as I have done for the past 15 years when evaluating any customer option - and compare the following:
  
  [*]the cost of the plan
  [*]the cost of each food (tax, tip) item from an online menu covered by the plan
  [*]what I would purchase if I were NOT on the plan and paying OOP less DDE (20%), purchased via DVC/PAP​

In place of the DDP, we are likely to

• go to (considerably) fewer table service restaurants and
• we will order fewer menu items
• and those fewer items will also be lower priced options than those we tried when we could pick any item, without regard for cost

.
I won't say we will NEVER use it - maybe for a short stay (2-3 days), where the focus is eating. I already know the "profit margin" (without appetizer and tip) will not be sufficient to be worth it to me, and the DDDP requires more eating (a table service and signature service restaurant in the same day? Multiple days? With an almost certainly, informally required 18% on top of it? I don't think so.) than we are capable of enjoying. On the current DDP, we mostly do signature - mostly every other day.

As far as the tip - well, I can see why they did that. The food probably only costs 20-25% of "hard dollars" (inventory). But an 18% tip is 100% of hard dollars. When I, the customer, receive my $15 appetizer, it is only costing some relatively small fraction in hard costs (the soft costs (salary, utilities, rent, etc.) per item served achieve some economies of scale when large numbers of people served). But when they tip your wait staff $50, that's $50 - no break for soft costs anywhere. The more people served, the more hard (tip) costs incurred. As a business person, you always try to minimize (eliminate?) your most inflexible costs. No margins, there!

Anyway, my thoughts about NOT using the plan should not be misconstrued that

• I think it is a bad plan, or
• people who subscribe to it are not making a good choice,or
• that people who object don't have valid and valuable customer service feed back for Disney to consider before they lock down the plan (the appetizer / dessert option occurred to me immediately as well) - keep up the good work with customer feedback!

.
The bottom line - if you want or need to be confident that you are going to make a good choice here, you will need to do some homework - thinking about your family's eating habits, then sitting down and doing that worksheet.

If you are not a worksheet kind of person, go with your gut and reading research, and don't look back..... Let the experience be your guide for future planning........

 

[bless7ings]

What burns me is for large families or parties we get a double whammy!! We not only get a decrease in the ddp value from previous years, but we automatically get 18% tip added to our restaurant bill!!!! We do not get the chance to decide whether or not the service was good!! Do I want to have to go to the manager and say I don't want to pay the 18% tip? No I am on vacation!!!! Just let me "be happy" and make my own choice what I think they are worth!!!!!!!! (it looks like everyone else will be able to)

And by the way, I think our large family is pretty low maintenance. I like a friendly, happy waiter/waitress to take our orders, bring them promptly and leave us to ourselves to enjoy and talk. It is nice for them to see that our water cups are low and quietly refill them and as a courtesy ask if all is well, and quietly set our bill on the table when they see we are close to the end, but for the most part I don't like to be interupted. But then again, I guess that is asking for an experienced, observant person in todays world!

 

[trivial]

What does Disney consider to be a group/party for the purposes of the mandatory 18% tip? People sitting together at a table? People sharing a bill?

 

[WETWHISTLE]

I was very disappointed to see the changes in the DDP for 2008. I absolutely LOVED not having to worry about carrying around cash and credit cards when we went to the parks. I loved EVERYTHING being pre-paid.

We are planning a trip in February for 10 nights. I considered not doing the DDP, but then I thought about how our Counter Service lunch (for 2 people) came out to like $30 the last time we were there. We used 2 CS credits, but the bill would've been $30 if we would've paid OOP. So then I thought about how it'd be crazy if we DIDN'T get the DDP for this trip coming up. We usually only do 1 CS and 1 TS meal per day. So for 10 days, that right there is like $300 for lunch for the entire time we're there. And I'm positive our dinner and snack will add up to more than $48 for the both of us. Then I thought about trying out the Deluxe Dining Plan, but I just can't justify paying $1400 for food for 10 nights. And we LOVE to eat and try new restaurants, etc.

So right now our plan is to get the DDP, and pay OOP for appetizers. We like appetizers. It's vacation, so on vacation we splurge. Of course we won't make out as good as the last time, but we'll still save some money by purchasing the plan.

 

[Kristina]

I was called today by a girl named Alexis from Disney in regards to an email I sent about how unhappy I was about the gratuity and losing the appetizer without a choice of that or a dessert. She told me they were getting alot of feedback on that and the gratuity and when I asked her if we would have a choice she said she couldn't comment on it but it was being looked into at this time. She didn't say anything about the gratuity but that they were giving guests a choice of leaving what they wanted as a tip based on the service they receive. She gave me her phone number for any further questions. It just sounded as if the gratuity won't change.

Disney bound in 15 days!!!!

I feel that Disney are making a mistake in offering the dessert instead of a choice of appetizer or dessert also. I know that my dbf and I would, if we had a choice, choose the appetizer but then later in the day purchase our desserts from one of the many delicious choices offered all over the parks. Now if we get a dessert with our meal then we most likely will not buy another ice cream cone or slice of cake and we will never go out of our way to purchase an appetizer type food such as figaro fries or what not.

Meaning we may save the cost of the dessert but we would rather buy something yummy later and have the appetizer instead.

Disney not earn anything extra by offering us a dessert with the plan.

With the CS meals however I think they can just leave it as it is, but with TS I'd like to have a choice and feel that Disney would make more money in the long run by giving me a choice !

Have a great trip DisneyTabby

 

[Kristina]

Even most of the merchandise at WDW isn't specific to that store.
You see most of the same generic merchandise everywhere!
New guests have nothing to compare with, thats what Disney knows.
THUS WHY CARE what we think!

Not dining related but hold on to your hats because in 2008 Animal Kingdom will be changing its merchandise drastically and the new stuff is supposed to be really special! I for one can hardly wait .

 

[bicker]

What does Disney consider to be a group/party for the purposes of the mandatory 18% tip?

Six people or more sitting at the same table.

 

[bicker]

I was very disappointed to see the changes in the DDP for 2008. I absolutely LOVED not having to worry about carrying around cash and credit cards when we went to the parks.

You should be able to continue to not worry about carrying around cash or credit cards. I think it very unlikely that they will refuse to provide a means of putting the gratuity on a room charge.

 

[bicker]

I know that my dbf and I would, if we had a choice, choose the appetizer but then later in the day purchase our desserts from one of the many delicious choices offered all over the parks. Now if we get a dessert with our meal then we most likely will not buy another ice cream cone or slice of cake and we will never go out of our way to purchase an appetizer type food such as figaro fries or what not.

I believe your specific circumstance is less common, i.e., that more people would likely purchase a salad with a meal given that it was not included rather than purchasing a dessert with a meal.

 

[Lewisc]

What does Disney consider to be a group/party for the purposes of the mandatory 18% tip? People sitting together at a table? People sharing a bill?

Seperate checks, or even seperate tables, isn't enough to get around the automatic service charge. Number of guests on your reservation and/or number of guests you present to be seated is the issue.

One of the servers posted the policy regarding how the automatic tip works, the search function doesn't work well enough for me to find it.

 

[trivial]

I don't look forward to having to ask for the manager if our group isn't happy being forced to pay 18%... that's no fun while you're on vacation.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't look forward to having to ask for the manager if our group isn't happy being forced to pay 18%... that's no fun while you're on vacation.

If service is so bad as to justify a low tip you should be asking for a manager during your meal so the service can be improved.