2006 DVC Dues -- Assistance Requested!

[JimC]

Hi everyone. If you all would post the details of the resort dues as they become known we will try to find a way to get historical and comparative information assembled and posted. Caskbill and I are working on that now using work product created by a number of us (disneyberry, caskbill, TroyWDW and others). We rescued the tables from the DIS before the HTML was turned off and are now working on getting a means to make this available to us all.

If we could capture the line item detail using TroyWDW's request from last year. You can quote this message in your reply and then fill-in the information after each line.

<b>Please fill in the Name and Number of homes</b>
0) Name of the DVC Resort (OKW, BCV, etc.) =
1) Total Number of Homes =

<b>Two entries for each line below: Total$ and $/Point</b>
For example: 2) Interest Income = 2,692,394 0.5507

2) Interest Income =
3) Member Late Fees =
4) Breakage Income =
5) Dues Assessment =
6) Total Revenues =

7) Admin & Front Desk =
8) Annual Audit =
9) DVC Reservation Component =
10) Fees to Division =
11) Housekeeping =
12) Income Taxes =
13) Insurance =
14) Legal =
15) Maintenance =
16) Management Fee =
17) Member Activities =
18) Sales Tax on Support Facilities =
19) Security =
20) Transportation =
21) Utilities =
22) Total Expenses =

Thanks all.

 

[PKS44]

<b>Please fill in the Name and Number of homes</b>
0) Name of the DVC Resort (OKW, BCV, etc.) =BWV
1) Total Number of Homes = 383

<b>Two entries for each line below: Total$ and $/Point</b>
For example: 2) Interest Income = 2,692,394 0.5507

2) Interest Income =112,627/0.0230
3) Member Late Fees =101,987/0.0209
4) Breakage Income =479,273/0.0980
5) Dues Assessment =15,801,019/3.2321
6) Total Revenues =361,372/0.0739
6A) THERE IS A ONE TIME SUBSIDY FROM THE DEVELOPER=361,372/0.0739
7) Admin & Front Desk =3,308033/0.6766
8) Annual Audit =10,978/0.0022
9) DVC Reservation Component =27,872/0.0057
10) Fees to Division =39,066/0.0080
11) Housekeeping =3,945,940/0.8071
12) Income Taxes =115,419/0.0236
13) Insurance =845,862/0.1730
14) Legal =1000/0.0002
15) Maintenance =2,674,559/0.5471
16) Management Fee =1,867,605/0.3820
17) Member Activities =810,863/0.1659
18) Sales Tax on Support Facilities =298,682/0.0611
19) Security =223,260/0.0457
20) Transportation =1,260,670/0.2579
21) Utilities =1,426,468/0.2918
22) Total Expenses =16,856,278/3.4479

 

[tjhsr]

There was nothing for line 18 in the SSR report.

Hi everyone. If you all would post the details of the resort


dues as they become known we will try to find a way to get historical and comparative information assembled and posted. Caskbill and I are working on that now using work product created by a number of us (disneyberry, caskbill, TroyWDW and others). We rescued the tables from the DIS before the HTML was turned off and are now working on getting a means to make this available to us all.

If we could capture the line item detail using TroyWDW's request from last year. You can quote this message in your reply and then fill-in the information after each line.

<b>Please fill in the Name and Number of homes</b>
0) Name of the DVC Resort (OKW, BCV, etc.) =SSR
1) Total Number of Homes = 450

<b>Two entries for each line below: Total$ and $/Point</b>
For example: 2) Interest Income = 2,692,394 0.5507

2) Interest Income = 73,986/0.0104
3) Member Late Fees = 78,784/0.0110
4) Breakage Income = 586,374/0.0822
5) Dues Assessment = 17,908,302/2.5120
5a) Developer subsidy=547,542/0.0768
6) Total Revenues = 19,195,006/2.6924

7) Admin & Front Desk = 2,532,617/0.3552
8) Annual Audit = 10,978/0.0015
9) DVC Reservation Component = 30,064/0.0042
10) Fees to Division = 55,080/0.0077
11) Housekeeping = 4,622,527/0.6484
12) Income Taxes = 130,170/0.0183
13) Insurance = 637,696/0.0895
14) Legal = 1,000/0.0001
15) Maintenance = 2,776,401/0.3895
16) Management Fee = 2,104,277/0.2952
17) Member Activities = 722,459/0.1013
18) Sales Tax on Support Facilities = none
19) Security = 302,885/0.0425
20) Transportation = 3,222,507/0.4520
21) Utilities = 2,046,345/0.2870
22) Total Expenses =19,195,006/2.6924



Thanks all.

 

[PKS44]

Look at the SSR budget for transportation...almost double the cost per point compared to BWV? That is amazing..maybe because the BWi guests help pay the costs for BW resort?

But then look at FRONT DESK and ADMINISTRATION-why is BWV front desk cost 30% higher than SSR--should not the BWI guests be offsetting some of the front desk costs....

I do not understand these discrepencies...I hope someone will bring these up at the meeting...I cannot attend.

 

[HookdonWDW]

Please fill in the Name and Number of homes
0) Name of the DVC Resort (OKW, BCV, etc.) = BCV
1) Total Number of Homes = 208

Two entries for each line below: Total$ and $/Point
For example: 2) Interest Income = 2,692,394 0.5507

2) Interest Income = 65,942 ; .0218
3) Member Late Fees = 41,579 ; .0137
4) Breakage Income = 281,669 ; .0930
5) Dues Assessment = 9,008,720 ; 2.9760
5a) Developer Subsidy = 227,212 ; .0751
6) Total Revenues = 9,625,122 ; 3.1797

7) Admin & Front Desk = 1,797,420 ; .5938
8) Annual Audit = 10,978 ; .0036
9) DVC Reservation Component = 17,468 ; .0058
10) Fees to Division = 21,216 ; .0070
11) Housekeeping = 2,425,635 ; .8013
12) Income Taxes = 72,606 ; .0240
13) Insurance = 520,920 ; .1721
14) Legal = 1,000 ; .0003
15) Maintenance = 1,580,021 ; .5220
16) Management Fee = 1,122,564 ; .3708
17) Member Activities = 695,850 ; .2299
18) Sales Tax on Support Facilities = NOT REPORTED
19) Security = 132,578 ; .0438
20) Transportation = 507,817 ; .1678
21) Utilities = 719,050 ; .2375
22) Total Expenses = 9,625,122 ; 3.1797

Thanks all.[/QUOTE]

 

[castleri]

Maybe the transportation difference between SSR and BWV is because the bus service at BWV is combined with other resorts as is the boat service to MGM and Epcot. My DH and I had the bus to ourselves many times in Sept while staying at SSR.

 

[JimC]

Bumping up. Three in so far -- Thanks folks.

 

[Beca]

Look at the SSR budget for transportation...almost double the cost per point compared to BWV? That is amazing..maybe because the BWi guests help pay the costs for BW resort?

But then look at FRONT DESK and ADMINISTRATION-why is BWV front desk cost 30% higher than SSR--should not the BWI guests be offsetting some of the front desk costs....

I do not understand these discrepencies...I hope someone will bring these up at the meeting...I cannot attend.

Yes, the admin point difference IS interesting!! Maybe the difference is that the cost is so divided amongst members at SSR, and the smaller resort at BCV means more per person, per point.

Housekeeping is an interesting number as well. Why would housekeeping be .8 at BCV, and .65 at SSR? This is an account where the number of rooms to be cleaned would have a direct affect on the number of people to be hired. I don't get this!!

If I remember, or get a chance, I will certainly ask this at the meetings. But, I can already tell you what they will probably say, "There is a baseline number of employees at each position (i.e. one person always has to work at the check-in desk in the wee hours of the morning, even when they are not really needed to check people in), therefore, these baseline costs get divided over a larger number of owners. Then, you add in the few additional people needed for busier times, and divide that by the number of owners, and you get lower numbers for larger resorts."

But, with housekeeping I don't see that working like that.



Beca

 

[tjkraz]

Look at the SSR budget for transportation...almost double the cost per point compared to BWV? That is amazing..maybe because the BWi guests help pay the costs for BW resort?

SSR has bus service to Epcot and MGM. BWV does not. That's probably the vast majority of the difference right there.

But then look at FRONT DESK and ADMINISTRATION-why is BWV front desk cost 30% higher than SSR--should not the BWI guests be offsetting some of the front desk costs....

I'm sure BWI guests are paying their part. The biggest culprits, IMO, are probably valet parking (you don't think the "free" parking is really free, do you? ) and Bell Services. SSR has bell services CMs, but I doubt there are as many with parking right outside the units.

I do not understand these discrepencies...I hope someone will bring these up at the meeting...I cannot attend.

Think about the differences between the resorts.

 

[tjkraz]

Housekeeping is an interesting number as well. Why would housekeeping be .8 at BCV, and .65 at SSR? This is an account where the number of rooms to be cleaned would have a direct affect on the number of people to be hired. I don't get this!!

Yes and no. Economies of scale come into play. Both resorts likely have similar fixed costs that do not directly correspond to the number of units. Housekeeping isn't just staffing--costs like housekeeping equipment maintenance and depreciation may be similar for both resorts. Housekeeping management staff and computer system may be similar in cost. But in all of these cases, similar costs spread over many more points at SSR means a lower per-point cost to owners.

BCV has interior corridors to clean and maintain.

The high occupancy level of BCV probably contributes as well. With the constant turnover in rooms and only 6 hours to clean every room between guests, I'm certain BCV has to keep more staff on hand per guest room than SSR. Lower occupancy at SSR means that there is no guest inconvenience most of the year if a room cannot be cleaned until 6pm or is left for the next day.

These may seem like nickel and dime things, but they do add up.

 

[ksoehrlein]

0) Name of the DVC Resort (OKW, BCV, etc.) = HHI
1) Total Number of Homes = 102

2) Interest Income = $25,716; $0.0188/point
3) Member Late Fees and Interest = $30,892; $0.0226/point
4) Breakage Income = $143,429; $0.1048/point
5) Dues Assessment = $4,678,000; $3.4172/point
6) Total Revenues = $4,878,037; $3.5633/point

7) Admin & Front Desk = $926,425; $0.6767/point
8) Annual Audit = $10,978; $0.008/point
9) DVC Reservation Component = $8,150; $0.006/point
10) Association Dues/Fees = $85,511; $0.0625/point (Note different terminology; includes security, road maintainance, and landscaping for Palmetto Dunes Resort and Shelter Cove)
11) Housekeeping = $1,015,427; $0.7417/point
12) Income Taxes = $34,819; $0.0254/point
13) Insurance = $387,137; $0.2828/point
14) Legal = $1,000; $0.0007/point
15) Maintenance = $877,476; $0.641/point
16) Management Fee = $599,330; $0.4378/point
17) Member Activities = $437,574; $0.3196/point
18) Sales Tax on Support Facilities = N/A
19) Security = N/A
20) Transportation = N/A
21) Utilities = $494,210; $0.3610
22) Total Expenses =$ 4,878,037; $3.5633/point

Hope this helps!

 

[Beca]

Yes and no. Economies of scale come into play. Both resorts likely have similar fixed costs that do not directly correspond to the number of units. Housekeeping isn't just staffing--costs like housekeeping equipment maintenance and depreciation may be similar for both resorts. Housekeeping management staff and computer system may be similar in cost. But in all of these cases, similar costs spread over many more points at SSR means a lower per-point cost to owners.

BCV has interior corridors to clean and maintain.

The high occupancy level of BCV probably contributes as well. With the constant turnover in rooms and only 6 hours to clean every room between guests, I'm certain BCV has to keep more staff on hand per guest room than SSR. Lower occupancy at SSR means that there is no guest inconvenience most of the year if a room cannot be cleaned until 6pm or is left for the next day.

These may seem like nickel and dime things, but they do add up.

Good point....I never thought how occupancy levels would determine staffing, as far as the rooms needing to be cleaned more quickly. I don't think I like knowing this!!



Beca

 

[PKS44]

They have done it again...and I can feel my blood pressure going up as I type this....

Transportation at the BCV and the BWV are virtually IDENTICAL---often they are==the same boat or the same bus (by the way even though there is no bus to EPCOT and MGM from BWV there is boat service so that cannot explain why SSR has such higher costs for transport.) BUt how in the world can a BCV guest be paying 1/3 ONE THIRD! the amount as a BWV guest for the same transportation? I am not talking about the total outlay---I am talking about the per point cost...it should be darn close to identical --just like the room cost at the BC is almost the same as the BWI...and each includes some sort of outlay to cover transportation....right now if you stay in the same room at BCV or a pref BWV on BCV points you are paying about $1.92 per day (Sun-Thu) to use the boats and buses...if you stay in the exact same room on BWV points it is $5.40 per day to use the exact same transportation...that makes NO SENSE!

 

[Beca]

They have done it again...and I can feel my blood pressure going up as I type this....

Transportation at the BCV and the BWV are virtually IDENTICAL---often they are==the same boat or the same bus (by the way even though there is no bus to EPCOT and MGM from BWV there is boat service so that cannot explain why SSR has such higher costs for transport.) BUt how in the world can a BCV guest be paying 1/3 ONE THIRD! the amount as a BWV guest for the same transportation? I am not talking about the total outlay---I am talking about the per point cost...it should be darn close to identical --just like the room cost at the BC is almost the same as the BWI...and each includes some sort of outlay to cover transportation....right now if you stay in the same room at BCV or a pref BWV on BCV points you are paying about $1.92 per day (Sun-Thu) to use the boats and buses...if you stay in the exact same room on BWV points it is $5.40 per day to use the exact same transportation...that makes NO SENSE!

Didn't someone bring this up with DVC a few years ago, and DVC pretty much admitted they had been formulating this wrong, and volunteered to fix it? It sounds like they have a formula wrong somewhere. It does seem like transportation costs would be very close to one another.



Beca

 

[PKS44]

Didn't someone bring this up with DVC a few years ago, and DVC pretty much admitted they had been formulating this wrong, and volunteered to fix it? It sounds like they have a formula wrong somewhere. It does seem like transportation costs would be very close to one another.



Beca

uh, yeah, that "someone" would have been me....and they assured me this year's budget would fix the problem....and instead it is more out of line than ever...

 

[Beca]

uh, yeah, that "someone" would have been me....and they assured me this year's budget would fix the problem....and instead it is more out of line than ever...

Got it!!! Well, it's good to know your efforts paid off!!

Are you, by chance....going to the Boadwalk meeting??



Beca

 

[PKS44]

I wish I could go to the meeting...but I cannot...

 

[kidsister]

PK an Beca: I am going to the BW meeting (Nov 30 at 9AM , correct?)

I would be glad to present your findings PK, but I;d like to have a few others double check the figures and apportionment, so that I have the facts straight.
I guess I'm not sure how the figures for $1.92 vs $5.40 per day came about for the boat transport. If you can help me understand , I'll be glad to present it. I think I'd say something like: In __________, PK brought up the issue of inequitable distribution of costs per point for BC and BWV to use the transportation system. I recall that th e Board admitted there was a problem with the formula that caused this inequity, and that it would research and fix the problem. However, this year it appears that the inequitable distribution is actually worse than before Statistics presented...and then the result of those statistics. And then closing argument.

I leave on the 26th. If you could get me the figures and the history of your argument and when it was presented etc...I'd be glad to bring it up at the meeting and report back.

 

[PKS44]

The figures were just the per point cost of transportation multiplied by 12 points for a studio room at either resort on a SUn thru Thur in November...12 points a night x either 16 centsw a point or 45 cents a point = the cost per night for transporation (all transportation at the resort...not just the boats)

Here is the history--two years ago I noted that the per point costs for transport were quite different...and that given that the transport for the two resorts was at that time essentially identical (they shared the boats and ALL bus routes) the costs should have been the same on a per point basis...well it turned out that reason there was such a discepancy was that they had forgotten to charge the BCV anything at all for any of the boat transport budget ( their share being around $400000 I think at that time)--the next year the budget was better but still off- because they are using two different and inherently inconsistent approaches to assigning the costs of transport.

When transportation is shared at a resort as at the YC/BC/BCV or the BWV and BWI, the larger parts of the resort are assigned a larger share of the costs, as seems fair. But when two resorts share the same transportation the costs are split "evenly" that is 50/50..even though the YC/BC/BCV is much bigger than the BWI/BWV and has twice as many bus stops.

Now that they have separated out the bus routes to some degree...and BWI/BWV seems to have the distinction of sharing with the HUGE Swan/Dolphin complex- the rates for transport at BWV have soared (while service by the reports I have see remains poor or spotty at best) WHY? How are the costs split between the BWV and the resorts with which it shares transportation...if little old BWV is paying for half of the transport (with Swan/Dolphin the other half) that is ridiculous..if the cost is allocated by size to BWV at the BW bus stop-- it needs to be consistently split by size of the resort (Swan Dolphin is like 3 x the size of the BW)---

now that YC and BC and BCV seem to have been relieved of any sharing with the Swan/Dolphin have they "stuck" it to the BWV owners to subsidize the transport for the much much larger resort?

and what about this increase in front desk costs...up 32% this year and $3.2 million dollars more charged to BWV owners for front desk than to SSR owners...do BWI guests pay anything at all to run the front desk at the resort or is that being solely passed on to (subsidized by) the BWV owners...that kind of use of dues is not only unfair...it is illegal --

Paul

 

[kidsister]

Ok, now I understand the figures.
So can someone play devil's advocate as to what the board will counter?
Then we can work on the response.