13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[MIGrandma]

I feel sorry for the family, and really none of us know exactly what we would do if we were in their situation. I like to think I would think with my head and not my heart, and allow my child to be taken off life support. But if it were ever to happen (I pray it never does) I really don't know how I would handle it. No one does.

As for the OP getting all upset about "the rule", what I can't understand is how they could be a member here for nearly 5 years and NOT know "the rule."

 

[Jessica14]

I wish I had the grace to know that I would do the right thing if this was me, but I don't know.

About 30 years ago, my cousin was in a car accident and was brain dead. The family removed him with no incident. So sad that this case has become so public.

Last year, my friend's DS, 7, went in for adenoid surgery because of multiple illnesses and sleep apnea. He also had hernia surgery as well. She was very concerned because of the risk involved in the duel surgery. He was fine, but she was warned that his multiple issues caused a greater risk to him.

 

[disney1990]

My thoughts are that it's a sad situation, but the family is in denial and needs to let her go. I'd hate for this to be a Terri Schiavo case where she spends FIFTEEN YEARS in a vegetative state before they decide to remove life support.

Do you remember the case of Karen Ann Quinlan? They took her off life support and she still lived for an additional 10 years. Very sad situation.

As somebody else said, there is no such thing as a simple surgery. All surgery, even cosmetic, should be seriously considered.

 

[NewmanFamily6]

In the Quinlan case the patient was in a persistent vegetative state aka coma. She could breathe on her own thus living as long as she did off the vent. Jahi McMath is brain dead as in zero neurons firing in her brain at all. She will not survive without the vent. Big difference in the two. Coma means brain stem function. Brain death = D E A D

 

[thedonduck]

I am having a hard time putting myself into this family's shoes. What a sad situation.

The other case that is bothering me is the Texas case where the woman is brain dead and husband wants her off life support but the TX govt has a law in place that says they can't because she is pregnant. It doesn't matter that she was 14 weeks at the time and no one knows how long she was not breathing. So now they must wait until 22-24 weeks to see if the pregnancy is even viable or if the baby had damage done to it. And even then no one will know if the baby suffered any amount of brain damage until if they were able to deliver. Thus keeping a dead woman on life support against her will. It is again a place I would never want to be in as a family member

We are living in such a slippery slope of who has the right to make these decisions and what really means someone is "dead". The law and our beliefs have definitely not kept up with medical technology

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

As for the OP getting all upset about "the rule", what I can't understand is how they could be a member here for nearly 5 years and NOT know "the rule."

I think "The Rule" is more prevalent here on the CB.

 

[mhfrau]

I am having a hard time putting myself into this family's shoes. What a sad situation.

The other case that is bothering me is the Texas case where the woman is brain dead and husband wants her off life support but the TX govt has a law in place that says they can't because she is pregnant. It doesn't matter that she was 14 weeks at the time and no one knows how long she was not breathing. So now they must wait until 22-24 weeks to see if the pregnancy is even viable or if the baby had damage done to it. And even then no one will know if the baby suffered any amount of brain damage until if they were able to deliver. Thus keeping a dead woman on life support against her will. It is again a place I would never want to be in as a family member

We are living in such a slippery slope of who has the right to make these decisions and what really means someone is "dead". The law and our beliefs have definitely not kept up with medical technology

This is what scares me the most. Since brain death is totally different from being in a vegetative state, I find it frightening that the original judge who issued an injunction stopping the hospital from removing the vent has set a new precedent regarding who can define "death". This child's brainstem no longer has any activity, which is "dead" by any definition. My heart breaks for this family, but by trying to keep a deceased child artificially "alive", at what point will they actually be satisfied with the situation and let her go? Is it my right to decide? Is it your right? Probably not, but on the other hand, what is going to happen every time a patient dies? Are doctors going to lose the right to call "time of death"?

I think we, as a society, are going down a dangerous path because we DO have the technology to sustain a deceased person in a way that the body stays warm and we feel like life is still there. I don't know the answer, but it does frighten me because it feels like we are starting to play with nature or god, which ever way you believe. So, so sad...

 

[hereyago]

The other case that is bothering me is the Texas case where the woman is brain dead and husband wants her off life support but the TX govt has a law in place that says they can't because she is pregnant. It doesn't matter that she was 14 weeks at the time and no one knows how long she was not breathing. So now they must wait until 22-24 weeks to see if the pregnancy is even viable or if the baby had damage done to it. And even then no one will know if the baby suffered any amount of brain damage until if they were able to deliver. Thus keeping a dead woman on life support against her will. It is again a place I would never want to be in as a family member

We are living in such a slippery slope of who has the right to make these decisions and what really means someone is "dead". The law and our beliefs have definitely not kept up with medical technology

I totally agree. Actually, several states have the" if you are pregnant even have a DNR in place and living will, so sorry, but your rights don't mean squat because the "baby" super cedes it."

I wonder if the tests in Marlise Munoz's case show that the baby was harmed, then what? Does the husband get to decide the fate of getting it aborted if it was damaged? Is insurance paying for her to be an incubator?

I would have no problem if the baby were almost full term and they took the baby right then. Or if the mom who had problems, made it known that should something happen while I am pregnant, do what you have to do to save the baby even in my death. But I have a serious problem with "outsiders" telling anyone they can't have their rights and wishes abided by.

Just as some medical "professionals" or hospitals are either too scared to get sued if someone gets a second opinion orrefuses treatment and gets their little egos hurt by it and want to abuse their power in retaliation.

 

[thedonduck]

I totally agree. Actually, several states have the" if you are pregnant even have a DNR in place and living will, so sorry, but your rights don't mean squat because the "baby" super cedes it." I wonder if the tests in Marlise Munoz's case show that the baby was harmed, then what? Does the husband get to decide the fate of getting it aborted if it was damaged? Is insurance paying for her to be an incubator? I would have no problem if the baby were almost full term and they took the baby right then. Or if the mom who had problems, made it known that should something happen while I am pregnant, do what you have to do to save the baby even in my death. But I have a serious problem with "outsiders" telling anyone they can't have their rights and wishes abided by. Just as some medical "professionals" or hospitals are either too scared to get sued if someone gets a second opinion orrefuses treatment and gets their little egos hurt by it and want to abuse their power in retaliation.

The other issue here is there are states that have laws against late term abortions. If you have to wait until 22-24 weeks you are getting to the point where terminating isn't an option. I don't want to get into an abortion argument, because that isn't the issue at hand directly. But it definitely makes everything come full circle.

My other issue is what if the father doesn't or can't care for a child with severe issues. It is very difficult to place in an adoption situation. Now granted this has such a media following that I'm sure someone will step up, but it opens a huge Pandora's box for the future.

Like a said it is a slippery slope all around. How much govt interference is ok, how much of our personal opinions supersedes that of medical/science? What happens if I am in TX on a business trip and I am in an accident that puts me in a similar state. I'm not a citizen of that state, I have a POA and DNA (yes I have had one since age 20 as it was required to have a living will to take part of my study abroad program in college), but yet the TX would likely keep me alive (against my legally stated and documented wishes) simply because I am pregnant??? But yet if I got into this same accident and situation at home, my wishes would be honored? Like I said, it makes me worried

 

[hereyago]

This is what scares me the most. Since brain death is totally different from being in a vegetative state, I find it frightening that the original judge who issued an injunction stopping the hospital from removing the vent has set a new precedent regarding who can define "death". This child's brainstem no longer has any activity, which is "dead" by any definition. My heart breaks for this family, but by trying to keep a deceased child artificially "alive", at what point will they actually be satisfied with the situation and let her go? Is it my right to decide? Is it your right? Probably not, but on the other hand, what is going to happen every time a patient dies? Are doctors going to lose the right to call "time of death"?

I think we, as a society, are going down a dangerous path because we DO have the technology to sustain a deceased person in a way that the body stays warm and we feel like life is still there. I don't know the answer, but it does frighten me because it feels like we are starting to play with nature or god, which ever way you believe. So, so sad...

People have been playing with nature forever. But I so agree about this judge setting a new precedent, where was his common sense at? Brain dead is dead. Will this set a new thing, anyone pronounced brain dead has to "wait" for an allotted time, just in case?

 

[15isto2]

Bill then for all medical costs since she was declared brain dead, I am sure they will soon realise that she is dead

 

[mhfrau]

People have been playing with nature forever. But I so agree about this judge setting a new precedent, where was his common sense at? Brain dead is dead. Will this set a new thing, anyone pronounced brain dead has to "wait" for an allotted time, just in case?

Absolutely people have been playing with nature forever. That is why this is so bad, in my opinion. It just gives a whole new validation to challenging doctors. Not that I'm saying doctors are infallible, but at some point, reason has to trump emotion. Otherwise we are in a whole new world of hurt.

And the other thing that is inevitable is the whole "cost of care" thing associated with this type of situation. I read that the family had medical insurance to cover the costs associated with this, but frankly, I am VERY surprised by that given the state of private insurance today. When people are routinely put through the ringer for pre-certs for things like an mri, I just can't imagine that a company like Cigna or BCBS would cover long term (forever) care for a person that is legally declared dead, simply because the family wishes it so. But that's a whole new can of worms I guess.

 

[stasijane]

My sister was declared brain dead when she was 13 also. We made the choice to take her off her ventilators because there was nothing else that could be done and as a single parent my Mother had already put her self way over her head with the lousy health insurance she had. But I think it should be the family's decision on what they do with this child, I think the mother here needs to come to grips with what happened and the need to get everything in order and have time to say their good-buys. This isn't a place I feel a judge should interfere.

 

[hereyago]

My sister was declared brain dead when she was 13 also. We made the choice to take her off her ventilators because there was nothing else that could be done and as a single parent my Mother had already put her self way over her head with the lousy health insurance she had. But I think it should be the family's decision on what they do with this child, I think the mother here needs to come to grips with what happened and the need to get everything in order and have time to say their good-buys. This isn't a place I feel a judge should interfere.

I am so sorry for your family's loss.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I can't judge either because I probably wouldn't be in the right state of mind to make any decisions if this happened to my child. I probably would ask for a couple more doctor evaluations from outisde of the network, state, etc. I would want to be sure before making this life ending decision.

My heart breaks for this family.

 

[SLP958]

My sister was declared brain dead when she was 13 also. We made the choice to take her off her ventilators because there was nothing else that could be done and as a single parent my Mother had already put her self way over her head with the lousy health insurance she had. But I think it should be the family's decision on what they do with this child, I think the mother here needs to come to grips with what happened and the need to get everything in order and have time to say their good-buys. This isn't a place I feel a judge should interfere.

Someone has to make a decision since the doctors and family can not agree.

 

[richmond282]

Only going from what I've seen/heard on our local news, the family is who went to media with the story. The hospital was going to disconnect the vent before Christmas and the family got a court injunction until this Monday. They were the first to speak out. The hospital hasn't yet (publicly anyway) said what happened. It's possible they don't know, especially if the stories of some of her health issues are true. It may be that they do know and are covering their butts.

Anybody know what the "other health issues" were? I know it has been stated that this girl had sleep apnea and she was overweight.

I do feel for this family. I think in the long run they would be better off letting their daughter go. I understand they are wishing for a miracle, but it seems like it's going to be hard to look back on this and not regret what they are putting that poor girl through as well as their family. They are always going to be remembered as the family who tried to keep their dead child alive. How can someone work through the grief process with that forever over your head?

I would like to think that were I in a similar situation, I wouldn't want all that media attention, having to go to court, etc. I would rather say goodbye to my child in peace. I think even if I was completely irrational about it, I have enough family members that would step in and help me see the futility of keeping a brain dead person "alive." Of course, it's easy for me to say this as a what if and not reality.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I can't judge either because I probably wouldn't be in the right state of mind to make any decisions if this happened to my child. I probably would ask for a couple more doctor evaluations from outisde of the network, state, etc. I would want to be sure before making this life ending decision. My heart breaks for this family.

I totally agree with you, however the other doctors (3 total I think) have all said the same thing. She is brain dead and here zero chance of recovery. This family is hoping for a miracle that medically is not possible.

I also don't think insurance will cover the continued care of someone technically deceased but I guess that is between them & their insurance.

 

[lauradis]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1076131/brain-dead-girls-family-wants-her-moved-to-nursing-facility/

Jahi had one of those magical smiles that just makes you smile back. Hope that poor baby cant feel any of the pain her mother is feeling.

 

[bittybabygrower]

My heart just hurts for this family, but there comes a time to let someone go and let them die with dignity. There are sometimes worse things than dying. And to put her thru 2 more surgeries for the sake of moving her...what if she "arrests" again ( said in quotes because can a dead person arrest) then what?

I have been a nurse for nearly 30 years and no insurance in the world is going to pay for those surgeries or her long term care. You can't force a surgeon to do these surgeries. I believe in miracles and have seen plenty in my day, but I don't think there is one here.

It is just sad all around