13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Lynne M]

The saddest thing of all is that the mother is now going to start seeing her child's body look in a manner that a mother shouldn't have to look at. I wish that she would realize and stop all this before this poor baby's physical appearance become very disturbing (if it hasn't already) and her mother sees things that she will not be able to un-see.
It would be so much better for the mother if her last visions of her daughter were not in a decomposing state. I do think the mother is delusional, but I cannot imagine seeing what she probably will be seeing very soon. I wish she would spare herself that agony.

Me too. Her daughter's corpse is decomposing right in front of her, and she has her lawyer telling her "Jahi's not doing well" because the hospital didn't feed her. It makes me want to scream. Read the doctor's deposition a few posts up and you'll see that it's already started.

I don't blame her for clinging to any hope anyone gives her, however false. She doesn't see what's really happening, she doesn't want to see it. The people around her who are feeding her this nonsense for their own profit and publicity disgust me.

I wonder if she'll ever realize, years from now, that these 'friends' were using her for their own benefit.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I have no idea, if the rumors are true, regarding the family, going against orders in the ICU. If they are fact, the mom may be feeling very guilty, thus unable to accept reality and/or responsibility for her actions. It could also negate any settle $$$$.

Hopefully, we will soon have a resolution and the healing process can begin. I pray, that the family can eventually find peace.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The person is the one who makes the decision for both children and adults.

It looks like you don't really understand the law. You probably should have read up on it before posting about it.

Actually, I have googled. I'm not a supporter, nor am I the only one, who's horrified and very concerned. There was quite a discussion (vote 13.12?) regarding what the law said, but what would happen. Evidently, there are already problems with the initial law. Laws are interpreted in different ways, and opinions don't always agree on "the true meaning". You know, things like, "what is the meaning of the word "is". And, I will continue to harp on that "slippery slope". We have seen it many, many times. The abortion law is a pretty good example of the game....chip away. It has cheapened life...so does euthanasia. IMHO I honestly don't believe, it has anything to do with compassion. Rather, it comes down to $$$$$.

To the poster, who asked, about my high horse:

I do have a horse, but only 16 hands.. Oh, and he has nothing to do with my feelings on this matter. I choose to focus on providing comfort and the best possible care. Hopefully, improving quality of life....not ending it.

 

[Disney Doll]

This is one of those "unless you have walked in my shoes...." scenarios.

You're making an assumption that none if us have walked in those shoes in terms of letting go of a loved one.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The saddest thing of all is that the mother is now going to start seeing her child's body look in a manner that a mother shouldn't have to look at. I wish that she would realize and stop all this before this poor baby's physical appearance become very disturbing (if it hasn't already) and her mother sees things that she will not be able to un-see.
It would be so much better for the mother if her last visions of her daughter were not in a decomposing state. I do think the mother is delusional, but I cannot imagine seeing what she probably will be seeing very soon. I wish she would spare herself that agony.

And sadly, the hospital will no doubt get the blame for it.

You're making an assumption that none if us have walked in those shoes in terms of letting go of a loved one.

That's right. Many of us have said here we have been in that predicament, and most others have empathized with what it would feel like to be that parent.

This reminds me of those stories you hear where someone has died and they kept the body in bed for years, etc. Some strong denial going on there, as here. It's just sad they couldn't have resolved their feelings before it got to this. I'm expecting we'll hear any time now that Jahi's heart has stopped.

 

[dakcp2001]

If this woman is truly at this level of denial, she needs to be committed. I don't think that's the case.i think she's aware if what's happening and looking to blame and using the fight and media as a distraction so she doesn't have to face it. There is some guilt there, and she needs help from mental health professionals. What is curious is that the whole family cannot be in this level of denial, so why is there no voice of reason. Why is no one on the inside, in the family, telling them the charade is over. It really is getting more sick each day. The enabling of this woman and this family is ridiculous. The judge should be ashamed for prolonging this mess. This poor little girl has gone from a tragic case to a media circus.

I am disgusted by how long this has been allowed to go on. Stop the madness!

 

[EMom]

If this woman is truly at this level of denial, she needs to be committed. I don't think that's the case.i think she's aware if what's happening and looking to blame and using the fight and media as a distraction so she doesn't have to face it. There is some guilt there, and she needs help from mental health professionals. What is curious is that the whole family cannot be in this level of denial, so why is there no voice of reason. Why is no one on the inside, in the family, telling them the charade is over. It really is getting more sick each day. The enabling of this woman and this family is ridiculous. The judge should be ashamed for prolonging this mess. This poor little girl has gone from a tragic case to a media circus.

I am disgusted by how long this has been allowed to go on. Stop the madness!

It may well be that there are relatives who are advocating letting Jahi go. But they don't want to be part of the media circus and therefore, are invisible.

A few years ago, a relative of mine was deprived of oxygen for a very long time, but the heart was restarted at the accident scene. He was brain dead, period. Most of us accepted it and knew it was time to let him go, but his medical/legal documents were not readily available to the treating hospital, so they had to go off what the immediate family wanted. And the immediate family (wife, with the support of adult children) wanted to keep him "alive."

I got there a few days into the whole ordeal and I cannot begin to say how awful he looked. The doctors had gone from being as gentle as possible to being stone cold blunt, but the decision makers were determined to keep the machines going. Finally, he started to go into cardiac arrest repeatedly and after a few rounds of that, the family gave in and let him go.

So on the one side you had the decision makers who wanted to "keep him alive in case he could make it" and on the other you had those of us with no voice, who said, "He is gone. He has BEEN gone. That is just a shell of a body. Turn off the machines and let him be."

We knew we had no say, so there was nothing we could do.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I was looking for an update today (Ok...I was secretly hoping her heart had stopped beating so this could all end). Instead, here is a cut-n-paste from what I found on a CNN article:

"As a family, we are definitely relieved that she's no longer at Children's Hospital, but we're all emotionally drained," Omari Sealey, the girl's uncle, told CNN's Piers Morgan Live on Monday night. "This has been an incredible roller-coaster ride of emotions."
He said so long as his niece's heart is beating, Jahi is alive.
"She's moving a lot more. She responds to audio and touch, and more compelling evidence is the fact that she can move her head and neck," Sealey said.
The hospital released Jahi on Sunday to the Alameda County coroner, who then released her to her mother's custody, said Dr. David Durand, the hospital's chief of pediatrics. The hospital had previously said it needed the coroner's consent for the transfer because Jahi was legally dead.


Are these just involuntary reactions her body is having? I don't understand how a dead person can respond. These quotes just all seem ridiculous to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/06/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

 

[mom2rtk]

I was looking for an update today (Ok...I was secretly hoping her heart had stopped beating so this could all end). Instead, here is a cut-n-paste from what I found on a CNN article:

"As a family, we are definitely relieved that she's no longer at Children's Hospital, but we're all emotionally drained," Omari Sealey, the girl's uncle, told CNN's Piers Morgan Live on Monday night. "This has been an incredible roller-coaster ride of emotions."
He said so long as his niece's heart is beating, Jahi is alive.
"She's moving a lot more. She responds to audio and touch, and more compelling evidence is the fact that she can move her head and neck," Sealey said.
The hospital released Jahi on Sunday to the Alameda County coroner, who then released her to her mother's custody, said Dr. David Durand, the hospital's chief of pediatrics. The hospital had previously said it needed the coroner's consent for the transfer because Jahi was legally dead.


Are these just involuntary reactions her body is having? I don't understand how a dead person can respond. These quotes just all seem ridiculous to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/06/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

I was really disturbed by the comments from the girl's grandmother a couple days ago, before leaving the hospital. She said her color looked better and she responded when they came in the room.

I know they say brain dead bodies can have involuntary movements ....... but how can one family be full of so MANY completely delusional people?

 

[Disney Doll]

I am of the opinion that some in the family may be focusing on the financial gain.

And yes, the spinal column can cause involuntary movements in the brain dead. Similar to reflex movements.

 

[Tozzie]

I was really disturbed by the comments from the girl's grandmother a couple days ago, before leaving the hospital. She said her color looked better and she responded when they came in the room.

I know they say brain dead bodies can have involuntary movements ....... but how can one family be full of so MANY completely delusional people?

This is beyond scary, the grandmother is a nurse or so it has been reported that she is.

I found a story where the family attorney states she was moved by ground, so she may still be in California, and that they are pursuing a lawsuit claiming violation of religious and privacy rights (still can't figure out the privacy claim) and that she is doing so badly because the big bad hospital refused to feed her after she was declared dead.

here is the link

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/07/experts-clock-ticking-for-jahi-mcmath-after-move-out-of-hospital/

 

[NY Disney fan]

You're making an assumption that none if us have walked in those shoes in terms of letting go of a loved one.

You have had a child die in this way? Really?

 

[Lynne M]

I'm not ready to believe that the family is in it for money. I've seen this dynamic before in families where someone is desperately ill or dying. The family rallies around to protect the spouse, or the parent of the patient. If that person is so far gone in pain and grief that they start making less than rational decisions, no one wants to upset them, and so no one openly challenges their decisions, and things just spiral.

It's easy to say, well, someone has to talk sense into this woman. I'm sure some in her family have tried. She's probably not reacted well. I can't imagine how hard it would be to go to a mother, a daughter, a sister, and say "Your child is dead, and has been dead for weeks. You have to stop." OK, you manage to get up the nerve to talk to her, and you get hit with a horrible blast of pain and anger. Are you going to speak up again? Probably not.

It's complicated by all of these people outside of the family who are telling her her baby is still alive, and her 'brain has to heal', and she's not dead because her heart is beating. Of course she's going to latch on to this.

Now, she's got all these people on FB behind her, saying "yeah, you're doing the right thing, you're a great mom, those people are trying to kill your baby". It's become a cause. She's caught up in it, and the delusions get ever deeper, and it's going to be very, very hard for her to stop.

We're really only hearing from the mother and the grandfather, and I'm sure most of the rest of the family is horrified at what's happening and doesn't know how to make it stop.

 

[North of Mouse]

I'm not ready to believe that the family is in it for money. I've seen this dynamic before in families where someone is desperately ill or dying. The family rallies around to protect the spouse, or the parent of the patient. If that person is so far gone in pain and grief that they start making less than rational decisions, no one wants to upset them, and so no one openly challenges their decisions, and things just spiral.

It's easy to say, well, someone has to talk sense into this woman. I'm sure some in her family have tried. She's probably not reacted well. I can't imagine how hard it would be to go to a mother, a daughter, a sister, and say "Your child is dead, and has been dead for weeks. You have to stop." OK, you manage to get up the nerve to talk to her, and you get hit with a horrible blast of pain and anger. Are you going to speak up again? Probably not.

It's complicated by all of these people outside of the family who are telling her her baby is still alive, and her 'brain has to heal', and she's not dead because her heart is beating. Of course she's going to latch on to this.

Now, she's got all these people on FB behind her, saying "yeah, you're doing the right thing, you're a great mom, those people are trying to kill your baby". It's become a cause. She's caught up in it, and the delusions get ever deeper, and it's going to be very, very hard for her to stop.

We're really only hearing from the mother and the grandfather, and I'm sure most of the rest of the family is horrified at what's happening and doesn't know how to make it stop.

Sure, this happens, to an extent. But NOT usually when a person is declared 'dead' for three or more weeks?????

THIS is making news, it's not a 'normally' bereaved family.

My mom had a massive heart attack, had no brain (or other activity) but my siblings kept her on life support another day so I could 'see' her once more - had to travel a great distance. So sure, our emotions are 'very' sensitive at those times, and we can be 'irrational' for a while, but this family has gone 'way' too far.

 

[barkley]

This is beyond scary, the grandmother is a nurse or so it has been reported that she is.

I found a story where the family attorney states she was moved by ground, so she may still be in California, and that they are pursuing a lawsuit claiming violation of religious and privacy rights (still can't figure out the privacy claim) and that she is doing so badly because the big bad hospital refused to feed her after she was declared dead.

here is the link

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/07/experts-clock-ticking-for-jahi-mcmath-after-move-out-of-hospital/

I just saw a poll one of the bay area newspapers is doing on public opinion as to how children's hospital has handled the situation-83.93% say children's has been appropriate, 8.93% against, 7% undecided.

the article also says that the lawyer (dolan) is not naming where she was moved, but that it's a "catholic organization" that accepted her for "treatment".

 

[Vidia2]

I remember reading in the comments of one of the blog posts that was linked from here (maybe The one written by Sprocket) that the family can potentially win more money (in the millions) for future medical care. There is a limit for pain and suffering and they can't win anything for missed income but if they can prove that the hospital was at fault in some way they can get a lump sum for future medical care. If she died after the money is rewarded, the remainder would not have to be returned.

I have no idea if any of this is true but it would explain how they could financially profit. Maybe they had hoped to keep her alive long enough for this kind of payday.

 

[Jessica14]

The supporters on FB make me cringe to say the least. They are so sure that she will "rise." I don't think it's right for anyone to come on and "educate" them, though. What is really absurd is the contention that anyone who is against them, must be somehow evil and "godless." Someone even set up a White House petition, but felt the President would not respond because he'd side with death. It's just so out there!

 

[Disney Doll]

You have had a child die in this way? Really?

No. I did not say that. I SAID that you are assuming that people on this site have not had to make the decision to remove a child from life support. Reread my post. I used the word "us". Plural. Meaning more than me.

I have had to assist people through the process of removing someone from life support and yes, some have been children or young adults.

I have no illusion that its easy. But I also think that putting this child at the center of this debacle where there are some people, and not
Necessarily her parents, who do not have HER best interests at heart, is abhorrent.

 

[sunshinehighway]

The supporters on FB make me cringe to say the least. They are so sure that she will "rise." I don't think it's right for anyone to come on and "educate" them, though. What is really absurd is the contention that anyone who is against them, must be somehow evil and "godless." Someone even set up a White House petition, but felt the President would not respond because he'd side with death. It's just so out there!

It doesn't really surprise me that there are people who think like this. This case might be a more extreme example but you can see the same type of thinking often.

 

[bcla]

I remember reading in the comments of one of the blog posts that was linked from here (maybe The one written by Sprocket) that the family can potentially win more money (in the millions) for future medical care. There is a limit for pain and suffering and they can't win anything for missed income but if they can prove that the hospital was at fault in some way they can get a lump sum for future medical care. If she died after the money is rewarded, the remainder would not have to be returned.

I have no idea if any of this is true but it would explain how they could financially profit. Maybe they had hoped to keep her alive long enough for this kind of payday.

I don't think they could. All damages lumped as "non-economic" are capped at $250,000 by the Medical Injury Compensation Reform Act of 1975. They could theoretically sue for future medical care, but that would probably go nowhere after the settlement to release the body to the family was accepted contingent on the issuance of a death certificate and the formal transfer of the body from the coroner.