$13.50 a Point

[StephenKay]

We need to stick together, brothers and sisters. The people all of them good folks have been getting a very !!!!! good deal from us DVC Owners, why don't we say a carpet 13.50 a point is the normal quote to live in property we!! are paying for. Solidarity,


Stevie KAY
Inverness
Scotland

CBR 98
ASMO 00
OKW 01
VWL 01

 

[Pete W.]

Everyone's situation is different so it's impossible to come to some sort of universal agreement on rental prices. Someone who knows one year in advance that they can't use some of their points is likely to ask for top dollar, and why not? But someone whose points are in holding will simply want to get something for them and will settle for much less.

Just as the initial decision to rent points is a personal decision made for personal reasons, so should the price of rental points be a personal decision. The market will settle on an average price regardless of what particular individuals think.

 

[drusba]

Also, if a large group of owners actually got together here and agreed not to rent for less than a set price, they could face the risk of being charged, either in a criminal action or a civil action, of illegal price fixing under state anti-trust laws. Thus, be careful what you ask for.

 

[RAD]

Originally posted by drusba
Also, if a large group of owners actually got together here and agreed not to rent for less than a set price, they could face the risk of being charged, either in a criminal action or a civil action, of illegal price fixing under state anti-trust laws. Thus, be careful what you ask for.

So the authorities say that gas stations and airlines that all raise and lower their prices at the same time don't viloate anti-trust laws, but a few DVC members that discuss what a fair price for renting points can go to jail. There's something seriously wrong here!

 

[cmark]

I don't think that every DVC member agreeing to set a base price would every be considered a monopoly of the hotel rooms or time share apartments in the Orlando area. Whether you like it or not--we are not the only game in town or even on site! Plus, the proposed price is well below the fee charged by our own club to paying guests!

 

[drusba]

Unfortunately, it is a possibility. It all has to do with actually comunicating with each other and agreeing on prices. The one thing that those gas providers and airlines don't do (or at least don't create a paper trail to show they did ) is actually communicate with each other about setting prices higher--they can always say there is no evidence to show they did anything other than react to the market, i.e., they learned another company raised prices and they just followed suit without discussing or agreeing with other companies concerning the issue.

A few DVC members agreeing probably does not mean anything as a few have no real control over prices. If many DVC members did so (or at least many who actually rent points), it could be a different issue and these boards create a vehicle for their possibly doing so (and for creating that paper trail showing communications). The scope of the market would be an issue and that may save the day but a local prosecutor under state law could argue that DVC rentals represent a separate and distinct market from the general rental of rooms by companies like Disney. I was involved with a case a number of years ago where several executives from some companies that produced like products had several meetings together at trade shows for which there was a record showing them discussing how they believed the prices were too low and they needed to do something to prop up prices. Not long after these communications, prices of the products went up. It had the appearance of the usual market increase--one raised then others followed suit. The particular companies involved controlled a small minority of the market for the general kinds of products involved but about 50% for the particular product. Each of those executives were charged with price fixing. None had any prior history of illegal conduct. They all went to jail. The lowest sentence was 18 months; the highest was 6 years.

 

[Bumpy]

I don't think that would happen in this situation! I certainly am not concerned about such a remote possibility. Prices should be higher as they have increased the buy in price. So, for the sake of argument lets just suggest that people raise their prices to rent to offset the current market increase to whatever seems fair to the individual.

 

[Doctor P]

Got to agree with drusba on this one. I studied industrial organization, including antitrust, extensively wehn I was in graduate school, and the laws against collusion are pretty strict and are vigorously enforced. As drusba noted, it is usually pretty hard to prove collusion (and most who do it are pretty adept at avoiding getting caught) but a written trail on the web and the ability to reach many, many owners on websites like this would be rather useful evidence should someone decide to go after someone for collusion.

 

[nuthut]

If every owner would take a serious look at what the points cost them to have, they would rent for more than $13.50!!

I don.t think they can claim conspiracy etc. when you are renting at a loss!!!!



Besides you can rent your time on ebay for more than $15 a point!! $600 plus for 40 points.

 

[baileybrad]

decide how much rental points are going to cost.

 

[cmark]

The whole concept of antitrust law is whether the conspiring persons had the ability to control the price on the market so as to prevent free markets from happening. DVC points are not the product--its the room/apartment that is the product. All of our points in the DVC combined will have no influence on the Orlando market. As an attorney and author of two law review articles on state anti-trust laws, I feel pretty confident saying that we should not be concerned!

 

[TrudyZ]

I believe that rates need to be reasonable, because of the loss of flexiblity and the risk involved to the renter. If there is not a signifigant price savings over getting Deluxe accomodations directly through Disney, many people would not rent the points. The question becomes is $10 reasonable?

As a new owner (and former renter) with points to rent myself, I am trying to determine what is the fair market value (to both the owner and the renter). I have to consider that the $10 per point has been the "set" price for quite a long time, as far as I can tell. I would assume that at the time that price was derived, contracts cost less from Disney, resales were a buyer's market, and the total number of years on the contract was greater.

Now, current market conditions dictate that the price I am paying for a contract is much higher through Disney, it's a seller's market for resale contracts; and the total years left on the contract is less.

I think if I did some of the same calculations done in the past to come up with $10 pp as fair market value with today's values, it will be greater than $10 pp. The question then becomes how much higher, and will the market bear it?

 

[Richyams]

I'm not in this for a business and its been years since I rented any points. $10 more than covers my costs and I think that if we keep it at $10 or less, it will discorouge people from looking at point renting as a business and hurt us all.

Nope, I definitely don't agree. I think $10 is plenty and will serve to help us all by limiting the number of people in the point renting business.

 

[Silverfriend]

I agree with Richyams. I think to encourage persons to raise the price of the rental will further encourage misuse of the system and hurt the beauty of DVC for all of us. This club was never meant to be used as a money-making venture. Personally, I would like to see rental only done between members of DVC and their family members and close friends. I have rented myself when I have wanted more time at WDW than I could "point afford". I think most of you that are screaming for a higher point rental price might have a different view if you were on the "buying" end of things.

 

[Joeblack]

This time, I agree with Richhyams. $10/pt is the fair market value and it more than covers member's costs. It can be a good deal for renters, but not always. It is a member's last option when points cannot be used and I see it like that. I will not try to make a profit out of it and nobody should...the market has set the price at around $10 to ensure that.

 

[cmark]

To us--yes $10 a point covers our investment and out of pocket expenses--but I paid alot less than $75 a point.

To the new members, they will be loosing money at the $10 a point amount. Does that mean that we should raise our renting points -- and thus make a 'profit.' No, but not everyone is breaking even renting points at $10. I am sure that new members would love to see the price go up--so they could break even.

Plus, Disney has increased prices--as dues have also gone up a little from the start. Thus, there should be a increase in the point rental. I have not been around long enough to know if rental prices have increased alot over time. If they have--then the market seems to be working(it's great to be a capitalist). If not, then the $3.50 increase might be justified. We must keep in mind that if the rental price is too high--we will not have the option to rent the points--they will go somewhere else to stay. The same way Disney is slowly learning that increase admissions prices don't lead to increased revenue. (That's why 6 Flags in Atlanta reduced prices this year by $7 a ticket--the more people in the park buying food and stuff the more money they make) But I got off track

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

As someone who rented points for the very first time, I would never ever have even considered renting points if they were $13.50. I can get many good rates from Disney properties or off site properties and they guarantee me the ability to cancel a couple days before, I have security, etc. Why would I even consider it? NEVER EVER would I rent for that price.
I can get AP rates at times almost 50% off and other discounts. I got Swan for 1/2 price, $150, why should I rent from someone I don't know with no security for $13.50? No way!

 

[StephenKay]

Thanks for all replies, if nothing else this has provoked discussion and thats what we are all here for.

For those that say we would not rent at 13.50 because they could find better deals on site, go and get those better deals.

Maybe if you bought your points before 97 having paid about $65 per point, then $10 is not to much, but like me who bought points at $ 72 per point $13.50 is not that unreasonable.

I also must say I did never buy to rent but due to military duty and the distance from the north of Scotland to Florida, it did make sense for us earlier this year.

I was unaware of any U.S. laws about monopolies.

Regards
Stevie KAY
Inverness
Scotland

 

[spruce]

It seems that anyone who wishes to price their rental points above $10.00 per point will be undercut by those willing to rent at $10.00.
Is the market really setting the value of a rented point at $10.00 or, are the suppliers renting at $10.00 per point keeping point rental value low?
When some state that they have gotten more then $10.00 per point, and I see what it really costs to rent at WDW for cash, I wonder if $10.00 per point isn't giving away the farm.
Disney keeps raising all their rates from hotels, tickets, food, DVC etc....I've been registered here on the DIS since there were less then 1000 DIS members and point rental prices since then have been $10.00 with the occasional $6-$8 rental. What's wrong with getting more cash for something that has gone up in value?
I have never rented my points but have always felt that $10/pt was a real bargain for deluxe accomodations if rented other then peak season.....spruce

 

[jcodespoti]

I kind of see both sides to the $10.00 per point arguement. In my opinion it would be illegal to set a price agreed by all of us DVC members (everybody is sue happy these days so don't think nobody would bring a suit against us).
If though somebody wants to rent there points for $10 per point than fine, if they want to rent it out for $50 per point then fine. This is a free market country (with some exceptions) you get the price you want based on what the market will dictate. My 1.5 cents


Joe in CT