$103 Fine for Swearing in School. What do you think?

DawnCt1

<font color=red>I had to wonder what "holiday" he
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May 17, 2004
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I really hate swearing and when I was growing up, we weren't allowed to swear. I can recall when my DSs had a particular teacher they thought was cool because he 'allowed them to swear' or write "swears in their writing, if it was appropriate", etc. Frankly, I think this principal has the right idea, but I am not sure that its the appropriate method. $103 fine would certainly hurt....if the kid had to actually pay it. Unfortunately I think who will be punished will be the parents, and that punishment hopefully would trickle down to the offender via the parent. Perhaps a more direct, immediate response would be just as effective. Clean the chalkboards, do some appropriate custodial work, dententions in lieu of a fine,etc. I really could go either way on this however, because I think improving the civil discourse in schools is vital.

Courant.com
POLICY IN WINDSOR
Windsor Teens Face Fine For Swearing In School

By DAVID DRURY

Special to The Courant

11:38 PM EST, February 4, 2010

WINDSOR —

Why, you stupid #&#!&@#!!

That will be $103, please.

Under a new campaign against bad language at Windsor High School, students caught swearing at a teacher or classmate will now be ticketed for creating a public disturbance, an infraction carrying that mouth-clamping fine.

Principal Russell Sills notified parents that town police in the school would start issuing the tickets this week.

Students "who use profanity directed toward a teacher, toward another student in class or during a verbal altercation in the hallway or cafeteria," will be ticketed, Sills informed parents in a letter dated Jan. 28.

When he introduced the policy at a student assembly last week, Sills said he emphasized that profanity simply has no place in a school.

"I told the kids we all know all these words. The reality is you make a conscious choice not to use those words here. We're hoping we don't have to hand out a lot of tickets."

No tickets had been issued as of Thursday, he said.

Student groups will lead an educational campaign designed to get students thinking hard before they cut loose with a stream of cuss words that could lighten their or their parents' wallets.

The ticketing policy received mixed reviews from students. Some said Thursday it was necessary and will change behavior. Others questioned its fairness.

"I don't have $103. That's too much. We've got enough problems already. I can't even afford lunch," said Tyshawn Hicks, a junior.

Sophomore Alisha Perreira, 15, said the size of the fine should certainly have an effect.

"It's a lot of money. I would learn my lesson not to swear anymore," she said.

Justin Borawski, a senior who learned Thursday that he had been accepted to West Point, said the amount of the fine was reasonable "especially when it comes to swearing at teachers."

Still other students complained that the policy was one-sided — that teachers who use profanity in front of students escape punishment.

The practice of having police ticket foul-mouthed students has been used at other area high schools, including Hartford Public and Bulkeley in Hartford, and was practiced at Windsor High in previous years.

"We've done this in the past on a number of occasions," said Windsor Police Chief Kevin Searles. "By issuing an infraction, it kind of alerts the youngster that, 'Hey, this is a serious thing you're doing and you have to be held accountable.' In the past it was very effective."

Students who receive tickets can pay their fines by mail; no court appearance is required unless there is a failure to pay or enter a plea.

An existing rule calling for a five-day suspension for swearing at a teacher also still applies to all students.

Gregory Carter, Windsor High's resource officer, recalled issuing tickets for profanity six years ago during a prior assignment at the high school. The problem with abusive language resurfaced at the school, he said, and it was felt that ticketing should be reinstituted.

Sills said the vast majority of parents and students who have spoken with him about the policy support it. He said no single incident prompted his decision.

"It's an area of concern we've had, something we're trying to tighten up," he said.

Carol Sama, president of the Windsor High School Parent-Teacher-Student Association, said that at the association's executive board meeting earlier this week, several members expressed some surprise over Sills' letter, since there had been no communication about what led up to it.

Asked whether she thought the ticketing policy will be effective, Sama said, "I guess you have to wait to see how it plays out."

Board of education President Milo "Rusty" Peck, who has a daughter attending the high school, said he has heard anecdotally of profane confrontations at the school and that the ticketing policy may force some parents to become more involved in their children's discipline.

"It was an attempt to help the atmosphere at the school. It brings forward the lessons of what is appropriate behavior," Peck said.

Copyright © 2010, The Hartford Courant
http://www.courant.com/community/windsor/hc-windsor-swear-0205.artfeb04,0,6319317.story
 
Perhaps a more direct, immediate response would be just as effective. Clean the chalkboards
Seriously? I can just see kids swearing just to get chalkboard duty as a joke.

I think it's a great policy. It's only punishing the parents if the parents allow it...that is, they're not getting the money back from their kids. And maybe they'll be PO'd enough to straighten out their kids' swearing problem.
 
I think schools should start charging kids who get D's and F's on their report cards.
 
As long as it is an authority legally able to issue a citation (i.e. a cop, not a teacher) and as long as the kid can contest it in court as he or she would if they got a parking ticket or a speeding violation....

I only have an issue if it was something privately that the school was doing as I don't feel tha tthey have the place or authority to have such a policy.

Law enforcement on the otherhand--does have the place.

16yo's can get ticketed from moving and non-moving violations in a car (I've had 2) and while it hurt my parents financially---they made sure I shared in teh pain for having to pony up the fine.:rolleyes1 Although one ticket was their responsibility (expired tag) and I did not get punished for that. My lazy stepfather finally got his but in gear and got me my tag. The illegal turn--lost my license for a couple of months. No more tickets while under their roof since I did not have a way to pay for the fines.
 

Seriously? I can just see kids swearing just to get chalkboard duty as a joke.

I think it's a great policy. It's only punishing the parents if the parents allow it...that is, they're not getting the money back from their kids. And maybe they'll be PO'd enough to straighten out their kids' swearing problem.

Actually I agree with you. I was just trying to see both sides of the issue. Cleaning the chalk boards would have to include every board in the school, and actually our high school doesn't have chalkboards anymore. ;) They are "white boards" I think.
 
How did they decide that the fine would be $103? That figure is so random. I could see $100 or $99, but $103?:confused3
 
I think it is idiocy to focus so much energy on policing speech unless it is hate directed at someone else. For all we know, what this principal is doing just gives the offender the attention that they want, and otherwise serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. At most, non-hate speech that the school doesn't like students using should be reported to the parent(s), to respond to as they see fit. Again, if it isn't hate directed at someone else, then it is strictly a matter of personal conduct, for which reasonable people disagree, and the school therefore should do nothing but defer to the judgment of the parent(s).

On the other extreme, hate-speech, the school should start with suspensions, leading up to expulsions. I think fines are just cynical distractions from what the school should really be doing in response.
 
I think the fine is so steep that the rich kids' parents will just pay it and the poor kids' won't. A more immediate effect to the kids might be a smaller fine for the first offense that actually could come out the kid's pocket, say $20. Then the fine would go up for the next offense. Manual labor after school should be handed out, too. As well as apology letters for each person who heard the offense, and possibly the old remedy of writing "I will not swear at my teacher" 500 times.
 
possibly the old remedy of writing "I will not swear at my teacher" 500 times.
I vaguely recall from another thread on the DIS a long time ago that this sort of punishment is a no-no. :confused3 Don't remember why.
 
I don't think a fine such as this would work because most kids that age don't have a clear concept of money. $103 to them doesn't mean anything different than a dollar.....it's the parents who would be punished, in most cases. Unfortunatley, I think that if a child is disrespectful enough to curse openly in school that same child is probably not going to get addequately punished at home. I think most teens curse...I did at that age...but I would never do it openly. I still won't curse in from of my parents.
 
I think it's a silly policy.

While this doesn't have to punish the parents if they don't allow it, at first it's going to have to come out of the parents pocket for most kids and then be paid back.

Should the child have used those words in school? No but I don't know if this is the best way either.

Something tells me the budget cuts are going to create even more unique punishments. What an odd dollar amount.
 
With regard to the actually dollar-amount... I wonder if it is a reflection of some legal statute on-the-books, and reflects the impact of some inflation index on a nice-round-number set forth in the statute at some earlier date.
 
I don't think a fine such as this would work because most kids that age don't have a clear concept of money. $103 to them doesn't mean anything different than a dollar.....
In HIGH SCHOOL?? I assure you, all my kids are/were well aware of the difference between $1 and $103. :confused3 MUCH younger than HS, actually.
 
One problem I have with this fine is that it is subjective just like all the other "rules".

They will overlook the "good kids" and enforce the fine on the "bad kids".

Can you imagine what the coaches/PE teachers are saying? :lmao:
 
I think it is idiocy to focus so much energy on policing speech unless it is hate directed at someone else. For all we know, what this principal is doing just gives the offender the attention that they want, and otherwise serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. At most, non-hate speech that the school doesn't like students using should be reported to the parent(s), to respond to as they see fit. Again, if it isn't hate directed at someone else, then it is strictly a matter of personal conduct, for which reasonable people disagree, and the school therefore should do nothing but defer to the judgment of the parent(s).

On the other extreme, hate-speech, the school should start with suspensions, leading up to expulsions. I think fines are just cynical distractions from what the school should really be doing in response.

I think calling another student or a teacher a @#$##^&&**&^ is hateful. The fine isn't for random swearing, but profanity directed towards a teacher or student. I think the principal knows that reporting it to many parents will have absolutely no effect and he is opting for a solution that may work.
 
While I don't see how this is legal, I'd like to know why the fines do not continue on the school bus. The very nice students I carry to and from high school think it's ok to pepper their conversations with words I NEVER would have said in public at their age. Matter of fact, I don't say them in public now. I have to explain that profanity is not acceptable on my bus and if I hear it, there will be a meeting scheduled with their grandmother. The 'grandmother' thing really makes them all think about what they are saying within my earshot. Who wants to have to face their grandmother about filthy talk?
 
I think calling another student or a teacher a @#$##^&&**&^ is hateful. The fine isn't for random swearing, but profanity directed towards a teacher or student. I think the principal knows that reporting it to many parents will have absolutely no effect and he is opting for a solution that may work.

There are already rules in place. How about enforcing them?
 


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