Wine and Dine 2015

[NileNellie]

So H and I have an 8 mile run this weekend. This will be our furthest distance yet. Obviously we will bring water with us, but should we try a gel or snack along the way as well?

 

[flatlandcycle]

I too had a tough time on this weekend's run. Felt terrible when I woke up (my lower back has been giving me some trouble). I knew it was going to be hot and humid, so I got to the track before 9 am. It was 74 degrees when I started, and 85 when I finished, and I felt terrible pretty much from the first 800m. I really had to talk myself into running each interval, and I didn't even bother timing the last two because I honestly didn't care that much. I just wanted to get it done and I knew my times were much slower than goal pace by then anyway.

I have no idea how I'm going to be able to do 11 miles next weekend. We have a wedding to go to Saturday, and we'll be staying at a hotel Saturday night about an hour from home, and then we need to pick up the dog at the boarding kennel. At least it looks like the weather is going to break by then, so maybe a Sunday evening run will be doable.

I had the same sensation, the heat really hurt my last interval Saturday. I did miles instead of 800's. Somehow 3 miles sounded better than 6 - 800's. I find that I get busy on the weekends end up doing some of my long runs early Monday mornings...

 

[Miranda]

So H and I have an 8 mile run this weekend. This will be our furthest distance yet. Obviously we will bring water with us, but should we try a gel or snack along the way as well?

I would say that is a good time to start experimenting and practicing with fuel. I experimented with a few different types of gels and just settled on the ones I liked the taste/consistency of better, but I am lucky that nothing really seems to bother my stomach because I didn't really start experimenting until I had only 3 long runs left before Tink. I started eating before that, but because the weather in New England was so terrible over the winter, I was on the treadmill up until then, and I was just lazy and brought Larabars to eat on the treadmill. But once I started running outside (my first outdoor long run was the 11.5 mile one) I realized I needed to figure out what I was going to eat that I could actually carry with me and eat easily.

For me, 6.5 (~1:20 at my pace) is right around my cutoff. My general rule of thumb is for stuff > 1 hour, probably use fuel, and take them every 45 min, but this puts me in an awkward position with stuff between like 1:00-1:20. Most of the time that feels like "well, yes it's over 1 hour long, but it's not that much longer, I'll be home soon." A 10K race, I would definitely take fuel for the boost. My 6.5 training run 2 weeks ago, I did not because I felt good and like I could just wait until I got home. My 6.5 this past weekend, I planned to skip it again, and ended up eating one at 30 minutes because the run was so bad. So, I guess I will always bring the "just in case" gel for > 1 hour from now on.

 

[Dis5150]

Okay, totally off topic. Just a shameless post so I can see my trip counter. One month from today I will be back in the World!

 

[WDWarchitectureguy]

My DW got our confirmation for V&A's on Sunday evening after the race. First time and really looking forward to it. This will be a food & wine overload trip.

 

[flatlandcycle]

So H and I have an 8 mile run this weekend. This will be our furthest distance yet. Obviously we will bring water with us, but should we try a gel or snack along the way as well?

It would be a good idea to test out what your body can tolerate, or what you flat out prefer. Powerade from powder mix and Clif Gels will be on course. If you don't want to bring your own it might be a good idea to test this stuff out. Good luck finding Powerade powder, lemon-lime, in a family sized quantity. I've seen it in a $89 quantity, hum?

There was a study that showed that boiled lintels consumed 2 hours before a bike time trial resulted in longer duration to exhaustion in comparison to the consumption of sports drink or boiled potatoes. Those little hummus tubes should be distributed on course

Some athletes train with low fueling on some of their long runs. They want to be depleted in training so that the body adapts to burning more fat, with increased mitochondria, increased fat burning enzymes....more blood vessel growth.

We will receive the most benefit from having a good carbo-load the week before and the day of, for us (night race.) Most of us will not bonk in a half marathon if we do most of the training mileage. Our muscles and liver will have plenty of glycogen. Long story short, during the race, consume fluids with a carbohydrate concentration in the 6-8% concentration. Concentrations above 8% can lead to slowing of stomach emptying, resulting in sloshy stomach feeling. So don't take gels and sports drink during the same time period. Fluids should be near blood concentration of salts, so not to upset the salt transfer to (and from) the blood stream. During intense exercise most of us can only tolerate 30 -60 grams of carbohydrates per hour. Don't wait to take in fluids; start from the beginning of the event. Fluids taken near the end will only help recovery.

notes:
marathon hydration from Association of International Marathons:
http://aimsworldrunning.org/guidelines_fluid_replacement.htm
bottom line, last paragraphs of this article:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/marathon-carbohydrates-522#

 

[sperkins921]

I have a sensitive stomach, and unfortunately I can't do Powerade or Gatorade. I could maybe do it if it was extremely diluted, but you just never know what you're going to get. As a result, I always have to run with water bottles for my electrolytes. Nuun is my current electrolyte drink of choice, and I ran a half this past summer that actually used Nuun on course. I was so excited!

What do you like best about Nuun? Is it the lowered (I'm assuming cause I don't know Nuun at all) sugar content? Milder flavor?

I get beat by power walkers sometimes in my 5K's... it's humbling. But they are fast!

I would give the shorter intervals (both run and walk) a try. We are so far out from the race that it is a good time to experiment without worrying about wrecking your time. I was doing 5/1, then 4/1, then down to 3/1 for Tink training, and switched it over to 2:00/0:30, which is what I still do. Between 10-11 min/mile is also my regular run pace. I sometimes dip into the 9's if I'm running extra fast or downhill, but mid-10's is usually my regular flat ground pace.

When I was training for shorter distance (ie still working up to running 5k or 10k) 5-4/1 was doable. 3/1 was doable until I crossed into 7 miles. Now at 8 miles, 3/1 I really struggle with past about mile 5. I did something like a 2/45 or 90/45 this past week and did very well. I was able to finish strong. I had the mental block at miles 4-6 instead of right out of the gate, but I worked through it. I'm going to see how 90/30 does me when I run this weekend.

My experience was similar to this as well. I had been doing 4/1 intervals and really struggling this summer. I just switched to 2:30/30 two weekends ago and it has felt a lot better. It's the same ration of walking to running but the shorter intervals have felt better and lowered my time overall (though part of it may be the heat was less both those weekends). I agree that my walking intervals slow down the longer I'm walking so the 30 second walk intervals are good from that perspective as well.

I feel like I slow down right around 45 seconds or so. So maybe it's really 30- because I'm not a watch watcher when I'm on my intervals. I just noticed at the faster pace, I was ready to stop at about 90 seconds consistently. So you've all encouraged me to give this shorter interval thing a try. Who knows, maybe my over all time will decrease as well!!

 

[sperkins921]

It would be a good idea to test out what your body can tolerate, or what you flat out prefer. Powerade from powder mix and Clif Gels will be on course. If you don't want to bring your own it might be a good idea to test this stuff out. Good luck finding Powerade powder, lemon-lime, in a family sized quantity. I've seen it in a $89 quantity, hum?

There was a study that showed that boiled lintels consumed 2 hours before a bike time trial resulted in longer duration to exhaustion in comparison to the consumption of sports drink or boiled potatoes. Those little hummus tubes should be distributed on course

Some athletes train with low fueling on some of their long runs. They want to be depleted in training so that the body adapts to burning more fat, with increased mitochondria, increased fat burning enzymes....more blood vessel growth.

We will receive the most benefit from having a good carbo-load the week before and the day of, for us (night race.) Most of us will not bonk in a half marathon if we do most of the training mileage. Our muscles and liver will have plenty of glycogen. Long story short, during the race, consume fluids with a carbohydrate concentration in the 6-8% concentration. Concentrations above 8% can lead to slowing of stomach emptying, resulting in sloshy stomach feeling. So don't take gels and sports drink during the same time period. Fluids should be near blood concentration of salts, so not to upset the salt transfer to (and from) the blood stream. During intense exercise most of us can only tolerate 30 -60 grams of carbohydrates per hour. Don't wait to take in fluids; start from the beginning of the event. Fluids taken near the end will only help recovery.

notes:
marathon hydration from Association of International Marathons:
http://aimsworldrunning.org/guidelines_fluid_replacement.htm
bottom line, last paragraphs of this article:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/marathon-carbohydrates-522#

Wow so much good info!

Couldn't have said it better myself. I also agree about good luck finding lemon lime powdered poweraide- mostly out here it's blue and red you'll find. If you want LL, you end up with gatorade. But I would use this distance to start playing with figuring out just when you seem to need gel/beans vs water vs electrolyte drink and what works with your stomach. Also, use it to figure out if you can be an empty runner or not. I found out that I can NOT be an empty distance runner if I had a relatively carb light week before the run. Body just didn't do well at all; esp not in this heat. So now I know that I gotta get *some* carbs in 2-3 days before and have a good dinner the night before.

On the flip side, this is also the distance to start figuring out if your shoes are going to carry you, well, the distance (no pun intended). I found out I have shoes that are better on shorter runs than longer ones. And I have certain sports bras that just weren't comfortable for 8 miles plus the drive home and out to the rail trail, etc. Better we find all that out now, right?

 

[PrincessV]

Were you able to run? I hate missing my training because it takes me forever to get back to where I was....

I was, but needed to change the lacing on the pair of shoes causing problems. Once I did that, I was okay to run.

While I know that you can return a pair of shoes to running warehouse used, I ordered three pair and it is my first order with them. I don't want to end up running on all three pair and having to return them. I don't want to have to be seen as taking advantage you know?

Let me assure you - they are AMAZING about returning shoes! I've literally lost count of how many times I've made exchanges in my search for the "right" shoe. They know the only way to be sure is to put some miles on in them.

I am not prune to blistering, but I worry all that extra space equal friction equal blisters.

I have wider forefeet to start, but I can honestly say that I've never had blister issues in shoes with plenty of room; only in too-narrow toe boxes.

Also, whie I have a neutral foot and tend towards supination my little bit lower arch means that on long runs a flatter shoe is not going to be comfortable. the Newton seems like a little less supportive shoe. Do you or did you have any problems with arch pain or Achilles tendinitis when you were first running in these shoes?

I never had any Achilles problems in them, but I'm a natural forefoot striker and live ion flat shoes, so there isn't any extra stretch the,re you know? My feet can't handle a bunch of arch support, so the Newton shape has been ideal for me. But I know some folks put different insoles in for a bit more in the arch. The idea of Newtons is to strengthen your feet so they don't need exterior support... but I firmly believe comfort is key, so it's worth taking an arch-ier insole from another pair of shoes and putting it in the Newton, just to see!

 

[RogueKnits]

What do you like best about Nuun? Is it the lowered (I'm assuming cause I don't know Nuun at all) sugar content? Milder flavor?

Mostly I like that it doesn't make my stomach cramp up while I'm running, which the high-sugar drinks definitely do. The low sugar content is another bonus because I use gels for my fuel. I'm not looking to double up on my carbs/calories during my run. It comes in effervescent tablets that are packaged in a tube, so it's easy to carry around and dissolves on its own. In the past, I used a different electrolyte drink (one of the Hammer products), but that came in a big tub and I had to give it a good stir to really get it dissolved. I also like most of the flavors. I prefer something a bit tart/tangy, and I think I've only had one flavor of Nuun so far that was too sweet for me. The light carbonation also makes it a little more palatable when I'm an hour into a run and my drink is no longer cold.

The only issue I've had is that I use a Fitletic belt, and the water bottles that come with it have a valve cap (i.e. no way to fully close it) that tends to leak when the bottle is full, I think due to the carbonation. But, Nuun isn't really sticky and doesn't seem to stain, so that's a minor complaint.

 

[flatlandcycle]

On the flip side, this is also the distance to start figuring out if your shoes are going to carry you, well, the distance (no pun intended). I found out I have shoes that are better on shorter runs than longer ones. And I have certain sports bras that just weren't comfortable for 8 miles plus the drive home and out to the rail trail, etc. Better we find all that out now, right?

good call on the shoes

I try to have my race shoes set aside after a few "break-in" runs, with no more than 30 miles or so. I will also physically change shoes mid run when the distance gets over 10 miles or so....it feels so good to do this.

Another thing for me when the runs get longer, is that I need nipple band-aids to prevent bleeding. CVS has a sport type that seems to stay attached well. Bodyglide didn't seem to help.

 

[fsupharm77]

You guys are giving me way to much to think about . I do appreciate all the advice on here. I haven't had many long distance runs since I have only been running for about 2 years now. I don't like to carry bottles so I haven't been drinking water on my runs, but I am getting to where I am running over 90 minutes so I am going to have to break down and carry something. I have found I like the margarita clif shots for fuel.

Sunday I ran for 1:40 and covered 10.4 miles. Very happy about that since I have a 10 mile race this Saturday. Last year it took me 1:43 amd I really think I can push it under 95 minutes. Just stinks though that it is after proof of time is due, I would love to move up some more, but oh well, I will make due.

 

[sperkins921]

For me, 6.5 (~1:20 at my pace) is right around my cutoff. My general rule of thumb is for stuff > 1 hour, probably use fuel, and take them every 45 min, but this puts me in an awkward position with stuff between like 1:00-1:20. Most of the time that feels like "well, yes it's over 1 hour long, but it's not that much longer, I'll be home soon." A 10K race, I would definitely take fuel for the boost. My 6.5 training run 2 weeks ago, I did not because I felt good and like I could just wait until I got home. My 6.5 this past weekend, I planned to skip it again, and ended up eating one at 30 minutes because the run was so bad. So, I guess I will always bring the "just in case" gel for > 1 hour from now on.

Wow. I swear I think we're running twins. 1:20 is right about 6-6.5 miles for me too. I thought I was the only one
The last two 8 mile runs I fueled before I needed it. The first one- the run o'doom I posted about- I fueled at about 30 minutes. It took another 30ish before the fueling stacked well enough that I didn't feel I needed to keep it up. Plus by then I was at about mile 7 or so and started the whole "i'll be home soon anyway" mentality. The other run, I fueled at 45 minutes as a prophylactic measure and did a chew (was trying Cliff shot blocks) for every mile after that, so about every 12 minutes, up until mile 7. Then I just let adrenaline carry me home. I had my recovery drink waiting in the car so used that on the drive home.

You guys are giving me way to much to think about . I do appreciate all the advice on here. I haven't had many long distance runs since I have only been running for about 2 years now. I don't like to carry bottles so I haven't been drinking water on my runs, but I am getting to where I am running over 90 minutes so I am going to have to break down and carry something. I have found I like the margarita clif shots for fuel.

Sunday I ran for 1:40 and covered 10.4 miles. Very happy about that since I have a 10 mile race this Saturday. Last year it took me 1:43 amd I really think I can push it under 95 minutes. Just stinks though that it is after proof of time is due, I would love to move up some more, but oh well, I will make due.

Wow. 10.4 in 1:40? At 1:40 I'm usually just crossing into mile 8. Good job pounding out those miles! But how have you been not drinking for runs that long? I would have DIED of thirst in that time!!

 

[Dug720]

Mostly I like that it doesn't make my stomach cramp up while I'm running, which the high-sugar drinks definitely do. The low sugar content is another bonus because I use gels for my fuel. I'm not looking to double up on my carbs/calories during my run. It comes in effervescent tablets that are packaged in a tube, so it's easy to carry around and dissolves on its own. In the past, I used a different electrolyte drink (one of the Hammer products), but that came in a big tub and I had to give it a good stir to really get it dissolved. I also like most of the flavors. I prefer something a bit tart/tangy, and I think I've only had one flavor of Nuun so far that was too sweet for me. The light carbonation also makes it a little more palatable when I'm an hour into a run and my drink is no longer cold.

The only issue I've had is that I use a Fitletic belt, and the water bottles that come with it have a valve cap (i.e. no way to fully close it) that tends to leak when the bottle is full, I think due to the carbonation. But, Nuun isn't really sticky and doesn't seem to stain, so that's a minor complaint.

I did use Nuun until one day at my yoga studio I needed electrolytes quick and they gave me some Ultima from the teacher's stash. Every bit as light as Nuun and even more natural. True there are fewer flavors, but it is awesome stuff!

 

[fsupharm77]

Wow. I swear I think we're running twins. 1:20 is right about 6-6.5 miles for me too. I thought I was the only one
The last two 8 mile runs I fueled before I needed it. The first one- the run o'doom I posted about- I fueled at about 30 minutes. It took another 30ish before the fueling stacked well enough that I didn't feel I needed to keep it up. Plus by then I was at about mile 7 or so and started the whole "i'll be home soon anyway" mentality. The other run, I fueled at 45 minutes as a prophylactic measure and did a chew (was trying Cliff shot blocks) for every mile after that, so about every 12 minutes, up until mile 7. Then I just let adrenaline carry me home. I had my recovery drink waiting in the car so used that on the drive home.



Wow. 10.4 in 1:40? At 1:40 I'm usually just crossing into mile 8. Good job pounding out those miles! But how have you been not drinking for runs that long? I would have DIED of thirst in that time!!

I have been taking the cliff spots with me and eating 1 every mile and half, it helps keep the mouth moist. I drink plenty of water throughout the day, maybe that is why, I am more worried about heat stroke during the longer runs without water than I am about feeling thirsty. What do you guys usually use to carry water?

 

[RogueKnits]

I have been taking the cliff spots with me and eating 1 every mile and half, it helps keep the mouth moist. I drink plenty of water throughout the day, maybe that is why, I am more worried about heat stroke during the longer runs without water than I am about feeling thirsty. What do you guys usually use to carry water?

I don't carry water for anything less than 5 miles, but for longer runs I use a Fitletic belt for water/electrolytes. It has two 8 oz bottles, so I still have to be careful to ration my fluids a bit on longer runs. I don't find it's really sufficient for me over 10 miles, especially if the weather is hot. My new plan for runs over 10 miles is to leave some water in a cooler (I usually do this anyway because I bring a recovery drink and bottle of water for after my run) in the car and plan my route so that it takes me past the car mid run so that I can refill.

 

[Miranda]

I carry a Nathan QuickDraw Plus. It holds 22oz. I still need to plot routes for long runs that take me past Dunkin Donuts or convenience stores at certain distances so that I can buy refill water. I have been just getting through 6.5 without refilling, like I drink the last of it partway through my last mile. My next long run will be 9.5, since I cut down the 8 mile run last weekend and I'm semi-skipping the 7 this weekend, so I'll have to start planning the stops (I have a 10K race tomorrow night so that is why I cut down the 8 and the race will take the place of the 7, and then Saturday I'll do something a little longer than the 30 min I should have done tomorrow... maybe like 45 min).

 

[Chaitali]

I use a handheld bottle too, mine is an amphipod and I think it holds around 16 ounces. http://www.amphipod.com/products/hydration/bottles-handhelds/handhelds It's usually good for 5-6 miles. Longer than that and I'll use routes that have water fountains so I can refill. Or I leave a bottle in the car to refill and then just to multiple out and backs to refill. I carry water no matter how short my run but that's because I'm horrible about drinking water during the day and so start out kind of dehydrated. I'm working on getting better about that.

 

[flatlandcycle]

I'm using a Nathan Triangle. It accommodates bike bottles, so I can quickly fill the bottles with ice.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I have been taking the cliff spots with me and eating 1 every mile and half, it helps keep the mouth moist. I drink plenty of water throughout the day, maybe that is why, I am more worried about heat stroke during the longer runs without water than I am about feeling thirsty. What do you guys usually use to carry water?

In the heat, I only carry water or Gatorade for runs 10 miles or longer. I use a Camelbak. In the cold that jumps up to about 15 miles. I don't need to drink, even in the heat, unless I am out for at least 90 minutes.