What 10 hours of street harassment in NYC looks like

[JenM]

My nephew grew up in an affluent, white neighborhood in CT. (not that there is anything wrong with that). After college he moved to NYC.

Guess what he told me? I GREW UP IN A BUBBLE.

I'm not disparaging anyone here, but I truly believe it seems like a lot of posters here are in that "bubble", or at least a little soap sud, lol.

When some of us try to explain that it's not like that everywhere we are told we have a problem. We just have a different reality.

It's true. And that's not meant as an insult at all. But I was born in NY, I grew up in NJ. The difference between my town in NJ and here in NYC may as well be two different universes.

I have Jersey friends who hate coming here. It's too fast, it's too busy, it's too loud. Sometimes I hate when they're here because they walk too slow and think an Italian restaurant is that Olive Garden in Times Square.

It's just a totally different atmosphere. When I was younger, in the 80s, when Times Square was much more dangerous, my dad used to make the same joke whenever we drove into the city: as soon as we got out of the tunnel, he'd say "Welcome to NY!" and hit the power locks. I used to have to keep my wallet in my front pocket to make sure it didn't get stolen. I keep my backpack in front of me on the subway so no one can reach into it from the back where I can't see.

It's all these little things that make up our NY guardrail. Unfortunately, the catcall situation is one of those things. More often than not, people are really rude about it, so we'd rather not deal with the unwanted conversation.

 

[RadioNate]

I'm a guy, but I've walked around big cities enough, and been to enough bars to know that the behavior seen in the video is pretty common. Earlier, a poster stated this is a problem that men need to fix. I'm wondering what exactly do they want man who doesn't do this, or hang around with other guys who do this, do to fix the problem?

If you see a guy doing it, say something. Like "man, don't do that." If a woman you know is in an uncomfortable situation, step up.

Take a stand when you are in a bar. Why don't you? I had a male friend tell me once it was because he didn't want a fight. My only reply to that was see it's intimidating for you, imagine how I feel.

I'm in a bar situation frequently, I see men tell
other guys to leave women alone & it usually results in an apology (to the guy...eye roll) from the offending guy.

 

[skylizard]

No it isn't wrong. It is reality. I am not anymore threatened by a male of color than i am a caucasian male. Color has *nothing* to do with it, gender does. When men take the responsibility to police their own behavior and that of their peers and put an end to rape culture, then things will change. Until then, a strange male to a woman who is alone has to be assessed as a threat. Most of the time, the threat assessment is low, but I would rather be situationally aware than raped.

And if men are offended, they should do something about it and not blow it off or dismiss it because by doing that give their unspoken approval to every male out there that catcalls, follows, or in any other way makes a woman feel unsafe.

1 in 5 women in the US will get raped during their lifetime.
1 in 3 women in the US will be the victim of sexual abuse.

Given those statistics, it's not a far leap to say that women should be more careful when walking alone and to be very leery when walking by unknown men, especially men who cat call them.

 

[snapppyd]

It's true. And that's not meant as an insult at all. But I was born in NY, I grew up in NJ. The difference between my town in NJ and here in NYC may as well be two different universes.

I have Jersey friends who hate coming here. It's too fast, it's too busy, it's too loud. Sometimes I hate when they're here because they walk too slow and think an Italian restaurant is that Olive Garden in Times Square.

It's just a totally different atmosphere. When I was younger, in the 80s, when Times Square was much more dangerous, my dad used to make the same joke whenever we drove into the city: as soon as we got out of the tunnel, he'd say "Welcome to NY!" and hit the power locks. I used to have to keep my wallet in my front pocket to make sure it didn't get stolen. I keep my backpack in front of me on the subway so no one can reach into it from the back where I can't see.

It's all these little things that make up our NY guardrail. Unfortunately, the catcall situation is one of those things. More often than not, people are really rude about it, so we'd rather not deal with the unwanted conversation.

I totally understand. Grew up in The Bronx, we had metal detectors in my HS back in the early '70's; there were gangs in my school, etc. I started riding the subway at 17 when I went to work. All I ever wanted to do was not be noticed.

I've had a country house in NJ since 1985 - it's a different universe! I do say hello to people there, they are so much nicer.

I really don't think anyone who hasn't lived in NY can ever understand what it's like to be a woman in this city. Don't get me wrong, when the chips are down NY'ers are the best, I was here on 9/11. BUT, men like the ones in the video are all too common.

 

[mjkacmom]

It is called an analogy.

No one is making it about race other than to say--unless you are willing to say a black people should be assumed thugs until proven otherwise, you have no business saying all men are potential rapists.

Being a woman doesn't excuse it.

It is bigotry.

If a man says anything to a woman, other than asking directions, it is considered harassment. I realize this rule doesn't apply to many other places, but in NYC, you don't talk to strangers while walking or riding. It's.just an unwritten rule. The men who do this do not expect to get a date out if it, or want to genuinely compliment a woman, I assure you.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

1 in 5 women in the US will get raped during their lifetime.
1 in 3 women in the US will be the victim of sexual abuse.

Given those statistics, it's not a far leap to say that women should be more careful when walking alone and to be very leery when walking by unknown men, especially men who cat call them.

We can talk crime rates all you wish. But assuming all men are capable of this and responsible is no different than stereotyping any other physical trait.

That said--is this cat calling an issue in other major cities? I have been to DC frequently for nearly 30 years. Have lived her for 4 and been in the city a number of times. It isn't a problem that I have heard of here. Maybe I am in the bubble part of the city when I go in. I dunno.

So I'm just wondering now much if this is a--we must hold all men responsible thing because it is all of their fault versus a men in NYC are just jerks.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If a man says anything to a woman, other than asking directions, it is considered harassment. I realize this rule doesn't apply to many other places, but in NYC, you don't talk to strangers while walking or riding. It's.just an unwritten rule. The men who do this do not expect to get a date out if it, or want to genuinely compliment a woman, I assure you.

So then wouldn't it be harassment if a woman did it?
NYC seemed so much nicer when I went versus what is being written here. Even when I followed the "unwritten" rules.

Because there are universal statements being made here, but then the occasional--this is what it is in NYC. Maybe NYC needs to work on their problem versus maligning the entire gender.

The men in my life aren't going to be able to do squat with your jerks in NYC if the rule is never talk to strangers.

And feel free to roll your eyes, call names, tell us we are all naive or whatever--the exception I am taking is the maligning of the entire gender versus your city taking responsibility for its own jerks.

 

[CinderElsa]

So then wouldn't it be harassment if a woman did it?
NYC seemed so much nicer when I went versus what is being written here. Even when I followed the "unwritten" rules.

Because there are universal statements being made here, but then the occasional--this is what it is in NYC. Maybe NYC needs to work on their problem versus maligning the entire gender.

The men in my life aren't going to be able to do squat with your jerks in NYC if the rule is never talk to strangers.

And feel free to roll your eyes, call names, tell us we are all naive or whatever--the exception I am taking is the maligning of the entire gender versus your city taking responsibility for its own jerks.

And the cries of #NotAllMen echoed into the night...

The Schrödinger's Rapist article is relevant to this thread as well.

 

[skylizard]

We can talk crime rates all you wish. But assuming all men are capable of this and responsible is no different than stereotyping any other physical trait.

That said--is this cat calling an issue in other major cities? I have been to DC frequently for nearly 30 years. Have lived her for 4 and been in the city a number of times. It isn't a problem that I have heard of here. Maybe I am in the bubble part of the city when I go in. I dunno.

So I'm just wondering now much if this is a--we must hold all men responsible thing because it is all of their fault versus a men in NYC are just jerks.

I grew up in DC. Lived there for the first 19 year of my life. I experienced cat calls many many times as a teenager. My female friends as well. I can't believe that you have never heard of it being a problem there, or in any major city for that matter. Maybe some of us are just "lucky" enough to be the victims of cat calls while others don't have to worry about it happening to them.

 

[Dancind]

Some people just like debating, I guess. Maybe ignore them?

If you want a real eye opener, spend some time reading When Women Refuse web site. There are stories of women declining a drink in a bar, or not giving a guy their phone number, and getting their throats cut.

How is the woman supposed to know when a stranger situation is friendly or could turn violent? Best policy is to ignore and disengage as quickly as possible.

My husband is a friendly guy from the southwest. He's also 60 years old. I have been trying to break him of the habit of inserting himself into the conversations of random strangers, or their kids. Well, at least the female strangers and any kids whose parents we don't know. He once made a funny comment to a small group of young women at Epcot walking in front of us. They were 20 somethings, and our daughter is in that age group. They looked at him like he was a dirty old man, and I was with him. That's when I started trying to break him of this inclination. It's a whole new world out there.

Our daughter is moving to a bigger city and will be living downtown, doing a lot of walking. She's aware of these situations, but not experienced at handling them. More to worry about.

 

[snapppyd]

So then wouldn't it be harassment if a woman did it?
NYC seemed so much nicer when I went versus what is being written here. Even when I followed the "unwritten" rules.

Because there are universal statements being made here, but then the occasional--this is what it is in NYC. Maybe NYC needs to work on their problem versus maligning the entire gender.

The men in my life aren't going to be able to do squat with your jerks in NYC if the rule is never talk to strangers.

And feel free to roll your eyes, call names, tell us we are all naive or whatever--the exception I am taking is the maligning of the entire gender versus your city taking responsibility for its own jerks.

You've been here twice? So it never happened to you, good for you.

No one is maligning all men. I have a wonderful husband who does not act like a jerk.

I wonder why you are so invested in this thread if you don't live here, have never had it happen to you, etc.

 

[mjkacmom]

So then wouldn't it be harassment if a woman did it?
NYC seemed so much nicer when I went versus what is being written here. Even when I followed the "unwritten" rules.

Because there are universal statements being made here, but then the occasional--this is what it is in NYC. Maybe NYC needs to work on their problem versus maligning the entire gender.

The men in my life aren't going to be able to do squat with your jerks in NYC if the rule is never talk to strangers.

And feel free to roll your eyes, call names, tell us we are all naive or whatever--the exception I am taking is the maligning of the entire gender versus your city taking responsibility for its own jerks.

What aren't you getting? This is a video of a woman being harassed in NYC city - not east bumble ####. This really does happen! No one is saying all men are pigs, but obviously some are. Men treating women like this are disrespectful. Not all men who disrespect women are rapist, but I venture to say that all rapists disrespect women.

But you should know that, being such an expert on big cities....

 

[goofy4tink]

I've been living with this issue for over 50 years. Has it gotten worse? Probably. Was I bothered by it when it happened to me? No, not really. BUT....there's a huge difference between walking past a construction area, having workers whistling at you or making comments and walking down the sidewalk, having someone walk next to you, making comments. Back in the day, you used to feel kind of disappointed when no comments were made as you walked by the workers...but, that was a different time. Now? If I'm walking down any street...be it my hometown of 20,000, or in NYC...and a man sitting there, right next to me as I walk by, makes a comment to me, or about me? No, I'm not liking it. And a guy who walks beside me, asking about my day, or telling me how sweet I look? Yeah....I'm way uncomfortable now. That's completely put of line...and those guys get it. They know what they're doing. They mean to make you feel uncomfortable.
I have no problem with being polite. But in this day and age, it seems to be a less than good thing to respond to even a seemingly well intentioned comment. I don't depend on strangers to tell me if I look good...I don't want to hear it.
As far as what can men do to stop this behavior? When you're with someone that says something inappropriate, mention that that woman is someone's daughter, sister or mother. That it's rude and uncalled for. I will say that there have been a few times that my very polite, but sometimes overly friendly husband has crossed the 'appropriate' line. He didn't mean to, it just happened. When I mentioned to him that his comments were really uncalled for, and why, he was appalled.

Do I look at every male I see as a threat? No, not really. But, I'm not stupid either. I realize that an expensive suit and nice hair cut don't guarantee that guy is a 'good guy'. And a less well dressed dude could be the lifesaver in a deadly situation. Appearances can be, and are, deceiving. But men need to stop putting women in these uncomfortable situations. There are some guys who think they are being complimentary when they whistle at us. They would be horrified to find that we feel threatened. Sadly, too many other men have completely different motivation behind their comments. It wouldn't be the same if women started turning the tables on the guys. Men are pretty sure we aren't going to attack them....so, no discomfort there. It's truly a power thing....they do it because they can.

 

[robinb]

I grew up in DC. Lived there for the first 19 year of my life. I experienced cat calls many many times as a teenager. My female friends as well. I can't believe that you have never heard of it being a problem there, or in any major city for that matter. Maybe some of us are just "lucky" enough to be the victims of cat calls while others don't have to worry about it happening to them.

I grew up in Chicago and was also the victim of many cat calls, whistles, smoochy noises and ... worst of all ... men who would follow me in a car, park ahead of me, watch me walk by (calling to me) and repeating it for blocks on end. I had to take the EL to work and men would sit down close to me on the EL and talk to me even though I was reading my book (pre iPhone days ) or would sit behind me and play with my long hair. I had to make sure that my hair was tucked in around me because guys would even touch it when sitting next to me *shudder*.

 

[suzannen]

So then wouldn't it be harassment if a woman did it?
NYC seemed so much nicer when I went versus what is being written here. Even when I followed the "unwritten" rules.

Because there are universal statements being made here, but then the occasional--this is what it is in NYC. Maybe NYC needs to work on their problem versus maligning the entire gender.

The men in my life aren't going to be able to do squat with your jerks in NYC if the rule is never talk to strangers.

And feel free to roll your eyes, call names, tell us we are all naive or whatever--the exception I am taking is the maligning of the entire gender versus your city taking responsibility for its own jerks.

Can I take it that you've also not spent much time in other large cities around the world. Try to walk down the streets in Rome sometime; it makes NYC look like Disney. Many of the Italian men will surround you and talk to you while you are walking down the street WITH your husband!

So, no, not all men in NYC are jerks, there are as many wonderful men there as any other city or town. Unfortunately, the bad ones are just much more vocal so that's who ends up getting your attention on the street.

 

[sam_gordon]

I've been living with this issue for over 50 years. Has it gotten worse? Probably. Was I bothered by it when it happened to me? No, not really. BUT....there's a huge difference between walking past a construction area, having workers whistling at you or making comments and walking down the sidewalk, having someone walk next to you, making comments. Back in the day, you used to feel kind of disappointed when no comments were made as you walked by the workers...but, that was a different time. Now? If I'm walking down any street...be it my hometown of 20,000, or in NYC...and a man sitting there, right next to me as I walk by, makes a comment to me, or about me? No, I'm not liking it. And a guy who walks beside me, asking about my day, or telling me how sweet I look? Yeah....I'm way uncomfortable now. That's completely put of line...and those guys get it. They know what they're doing. They mean to make you feel uncomfortable.
I have no problem with being polite. But in this day and age, it seems to be a less than good thing to respond to even a seemingly well intentioned comment. I don't depend on strangers to tell me if I look good...I don't want to hear it.
As far as what can men do to stop this behavior? When you're with someone that says something inappropriate, mention that that woman is someone's daughter, sister or mother. That it's rude and uncalled for. I will say that there have been a few times that my very polite, but sometimes overly friendly husband has crossed the 'appropriate' line. He didn't mean to, it just happened. When I mentioned to him that his comments were really uncalled for, and why, he was appalled.

Do I look at every male I see as a threat? No, not really. But, I'm not stupid either. I realize that an expensive suit and nice hair cut don't guarantee that guy is a 'good guy'. And a less well dressed dude could be the lifesaver in a deadly situation. Appearances can be, and are, deceiving. But men need to stop putting women in these uncomfortable situations. There are some guys who think they are being complimentary when they whistle at us. They would be horrified to find that we feel threatened. Sadly, too many other men have completely different motivation behind their comments. It wouldn't be the same if women started turning the tables on the guys. Men are pretty sure we aren't going to attack them....so, no discomfort there. It's truly a power thing....they do it because they can.

I think the bolded is the truth. I still believe it is a shame not only that women have to take such a defensive posture but that guys have forced them to do that.

I happened to be looking at prank videos on youtube and this one came up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JGIvdWFzFQ. A guy asks 100 girls in Vegas to sleep with him... amazingly 6 said yes!

 

[olwyngdh]

And the cries of #NotAllMen echoed into the night... The Schrödinger's Rapist article is relevant to this thread as well.

Thank you for that link. It explains in depth and clearly exactly what I was saying.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Thank you for that link. It explains in depth and clearly exactly what I was saying.

Of course the flip side of that is the fact that the 90% of guys who are not scumbags don't appreciate automatically being treated as such just because of the 10% possibility they MIGHT be one.

 

[CinderElsa]

Of course the flip side of that is the fact that the 90% of guys who are not scumbags don't appreciate automatically being treated as such just because of the 10% possibility they MIGHT be one.

Clearly, you did not read the first link.

 

[skylizard]

Of course the flip side of that is the fact that the 90% of guys who are not scumbags don't appreciate automatically being treated as such just because of the 10% possibility they MIGHT be one.

The 90% of guys who are not scumbags aren't the ones doing the cat calling.