Vent-DD got college financial aid summary

[Teacher03]

The child actually will not be eligible for more money just because this happens. When a parent goes to school, the child still reports the number in the family in college as just themselves (or any other siblings in the household in college as well). Parents do not count on the child's FAFSA as someone in college, even if they're attending. However, when the parent fills out a FAFSA for their own financial aid, they do get to include the child as part of the number of family members in college. So - student and parent are going to college. Student reports number in household in college as 1, and parent reports number in household in college as 2. It used to be different, but for quite some time this has been the case. The justification from the feds is partially that often parents are only going part-time, not full-time, and it's less of an impact on the family for a parent to go to school than it is a child. Think of that what you will, but them's the rules.

Though, it's quite possible that in the quoted case, the student qualified for Pell Grant money simply because her mother was earning less income due to being a student and that impacted her Estimated Family Contribution enough to make her grant-eligible. That *would* reflect in the FAFSA, though the Pell Grant wouldn't have had anything to do with mom going to school, just the reduction in income.

I have heard of some schools making a professional judgment to factor that extra parent going to college back into the FAFSA calculations. That's one example I mentioned about, in my opinion, some financial aid administrators making potentially questionable professional judgments, because the federal regulations are quite clear on this - parents going to school cannot be reported as part of "number in household attending college" on the FAFSA for the student. I'm not quite sure how a FAA would justify that judgment if they were audited.

I actually went to college the first time when my oldest was a senior in high school. So we were in college at the same time for a year. I thought she might get extra money, but she didn't and I didn't. It does help that we will have two in college next year, but not much.

 

[mla1977]

The child actually will not be eligible for more money just because this happens. When a parent goes to school, the child still reports the number in the family in college as just themselves (or any other siblings in the household in college as well). Parents do not count on the child's FAFSA as someone in college, even if they're attending. However, when the parent fills out a FAFSA for their own financial aid, they do get to include the child as part of the number of family members in college. So - student and parent are going to college. Student reports number in household in college as 1, and parent reports number in household in college as 2. It used to be different, but for quite some time this has been the case. The justification from the feds is partially that often parents are only going part-time, not full-time, and it's less of an impact on the family for a parent to go to school than it is a child. Think of that what you will, but them's the rules.

Though, it's quite possible that in the quoted case, the student qualified for Pell Grant money simply because her mother was earning less income due to being a student and that impacted her Estimated Family Contribution enough to make her grant-eligible. That *would* reflect in the FAFSA, though the Pell Grant wouldn't have had anything to do with mom going to school, just the reduction in income.

I have heard of some schools making a professional judgment to factor that extra parent going to college back into the FAFSA calculations. That's one example I mentioned about, in my opinion, some financial aid administrators making potentially questionable professional judgments, because the federal regulations are quite clear on this - parents going to school cannot be reported as part of "number in household attending college" on the FAFSA for the student. I'm not quite sure how a FAA would justify that judgment if they were audited.

My example was from 10 or 11 years ago, so it was probably when they were taking that into consideration. I was told specifically by my FA Dept that that was why I was no longer getting the Pell Grant.

 

[phragmipedium]

My example was from 10 or 11 years ago, so it was probably when they were taking that into consideration. I was told specifically by my FA Dept that that was why I was no longer getting the Pell Grant.

You may definitely be correct then. I'm pretty fresh out of college myself, just 25, so I was only in the office for a couple of years. I do remember our associate director telling me that the change in parental consideration had been around "a long time," but that's not very specific.

 

[Vijoge]

Yeah, I have a 10th grader and I am scared already. I filled out some FAFSA-type calculator and out contribution came out about $40K per year.

Sure, I can afford that if we don't eat. Our mortgage payment is huge but no one takes that into account.

, if you could afford $40,000 a year you wouldn't be filling out the FAFSA!!

 

[Vijoge]

Unsubsidized Stafford loans are not need-based, and you are responsible for all of the interest that accrues on the loan, including while you are in school.

I believe there are dollar limits, but at least the unsubsidized is not need-based.

Good luck.

Yes, there are limits. The max DS could borrow his freshman year was $2700.

 

[Green Tea]

Interesting confused3 ) situation developed here overnight. Merit award from one school was increased by a bit, and school wants the answer on acceptance in a couple of weeks. We won't get all the answers from other schools until April, one mailed as late as April 5, and the date is prior to the accepted applicants weekend. Surely FA offices grant extensions on acceptance of awards on occasion, don't they phragmipedium? The notification date for scholarship acceptance conflicts with the date for acceptance of offer of admissions.

 

[daughtersrus]

Yes, there are limits. The max DS could borrow his freshman year was $2700.

I think that the limits have increased a bit. I found this on Staffordloan dot com
The limit for the academic year beginning in 2007 is $3,500 per year for freshman undergraduate students, $4,500 for sophomore undergrads, and $5,500 per year for junior and senior undergrads.

I don't know if there will be an increase for 2008-2009

 

[irisbud]

Having been in your daughter's situation (as millions of other students have been) options are very limited. Even if she qualifies for work study, it really won't make a dent in that bill. Your options other than a payment plan, are have her wait a year and work like crazy to save up money, go to school full time (or part time) and work to try to pay as she goes, take out a Parent Plus loan (federally guaranteed and begin payments after 6 months) or have her take out a private student loan (interest rates are based on credit scores and variable). I went the private loan route and it wasn't the best idea, but the best idea for me at the time.

Is she living at home? You said local campus, I don't know if that means you live in State College, or if she is attending a satellite campus in your hometown. If she can live at home, that would greatly reduce the bill and be my recommendation, even if she has to take a private loan to cover the rest of the bill.

Good luck!

One other option (and I hope she dosen't have to do this, I wish I hadn't had to: I had to wait until I was 24 and elgible for federal aide on my own. I was straight A / top 5% ACT as well, but the aid wasn't enough and my parents were completely unwilling to help for some reason (don't know if they couldn't or didn't want to ). They made WAY too much to qualify, so I started school when I turned 24 and had it nearly all funded through fed aid and subsidized loans. I hated to have to wait so long, but I had no choice as they didn't want to cosign a loan either as mom dosen'y believe in loans

Good luck!

 

[madge]

Interesting confused3 ) situation developed here overnight. Merit award from one school was increased by a bit, and school wants the answer on acceptance in a couple of weeks. We won't get all the answers from other schools until April, one mailed as late as April 5, and the date is prior to the accepted applicants weekend. Surely FA offices grant extensions on acceptance of awards on occasion, don't they phragmipedium? The notification date for scholarship acceptance conflicts with the date for acceptance of offer of admissions.

One of our award packages specifically says to send a written letter for an extension. (Which reminds me, I need to do that today!) It can't hurt to call the FA office!

 

[merryweather's twin]

Are any of your kids in a long term relationship? I got married right out of high school to my DH (he was 2 years older) in order to afford collage. Our parent were all for it. We have had to pay for all of our school without parent help and we came out on the other side of collage with only $7000. in debt total for 4 years for me and a masters for him....
We worked as a team and I think it made us stronger. It also saved our families well over $100,000. That they did not have. I mean if kids are willing to go in the military to pay for school and wait until their parents income no longer counts and even go to a lesser collage that will effect their earning potential in the long run why not marry their high school sweetheart? I guess I was lucky but I knew DH for 3 years before and it made my life much better and took the pressure off my parents and his Mom. We have been together 17 years now and are happy. I am not saying they should marry just anyone but if you have kids that are waiting to get married until after collage it may be an answer.

 

[crisi]

Something that hasn't really been mentioned. There are states that have reasonable four year college programs - even for out of state students. North Dakota comes to mind. So if you are looking at $25k for your local state school, consider an out of state school. Yes, its North Dakota - but on the plus side they'll probably learn to help birth cows as well as write a research paper.

Note that "reasonable" isn't "free." Its still two plus decent new cars worth of tuition.

 

[Gillian]

I don't have any words of wisdom for the OP. I live in PA, too and I envy my DSis's kids who live in NJ. In NJ, if you graduate in the top 20% of your high school class, you can attend your local community college for free for up to 5 semesters. After that, if you've kept your grades up, you can apply to any state university and the NJ STARS scholarship will cover your tuition there as well. My neice will be applying to Rutgers next fall for the Spring 2009 semester. And all of her GCCC credits will transfer completely.

This is good to know. It's also interesting for me because at some local high schools my kids would be crushed while at others they would do well (as far as rank). Some of the public high schools around here are super competetive!

The other thing I'd worry about is the difficulty level of some community colleges. Ours (Mercer) seemed very easy when I took summer classes there.

My nephew lives in PA and wants to go to school in NJ. His parents are letting him choose, so they're ending up with a higher bill than they would have at some PA schools where he was accepted.

 

[phragmipedium]

Green Tea - whether or not there are extensions really depends on the school's policies, so you should definitely call the office to see if the offer must be accepted by a certain date or not.

In our office, for example, we did send out letters about scholarships asking students to sign and return by a certain date, or indicate that they were going elsewhere. However - as soon as we input the scholarship for that student, we automatically marked it as "accepted" and only changed that if they returned the form to tell us if they were going elsewhere. We did not award scholarships on a rolling basis; we awarded our funds for the year and if we ended up having more cancel than anticipated, the funds just stayed in the same account for next year. Students did not lose the scholarship they were awarded even if they forgot to return the acceptance form.

For other forms of aid, the award letter did have a date on the bottom by which families were to respond - usually 45 days out from the date the letter was printed. The Stafford and PLUS loans were always available even after that date, as well as Pell grants if the student had that as part of their package. However, if our funding for other grant programs was particularly tight, we set a time usually in late July where we would begin to "purge" the tight grant aid from awards of those who had not been accepted yet, with the assumption they had chosen another school without letting us know.

Bottom line is, every school does things a little bit differently, so you should definitely call them and ask for the policy. Also ask for the name of who you speak with, and if it's possible for them to note your request in your student's account - just in case you get a "Yes, extensions are fine" answer and hear something different later from someone else.

 

[Green Tea]

I sent an email asking so I would have the written response. No problem. Come and enjoy the visit, then turn the letter in after. So I am less stressed again. The whole thing was kind of surprising. The merit award was for more than the initial offer said, then a 3 week acceptance/rejection request. 3 weeks is not a long time when all the other schools don't send admit decisions for 2 more weeks! Thanks for your help!

 

[Sarah'sMomfrom PA]

Phragmipedium....I can't pm you but I would love to ask you some questions about the FAFSA form and if I should contact DD choice of college (entering in September) and I have a question on a payout that my husband received when he first collected SS disability but it is showing as income on the FAFSA form...should I send a letter to the college to explain this to them since we will not receive this lump sum payment every year (we went without income for 1 1/2 years until the determination was made). Could you please pm me so I can answer you. Thanks! Mary Jo

 

[phragmipedium]

Phragmipedium....I can't pm you but I would love to ask you some questions about the FAFSA form and if I should contact DD choice of college (entering in September) and I have a question on a payout that my husband received when he first collected SS disability but it is showing as income on the FAFSA form...should I send a letter to the college to explain this to them since we will not receive this lump sum payment every year (we went without income for 1 1/2 years until the determination was made). Could you please pm me so I can answer you. Thanks! Mary Jo

Mary Jo,

Yes, if you've received something lump-sum that is not recurring income, you should definitely contact your college's aid office and ask to speak with a counselor about your situation. I hesitate to give you more information than that, because they'll want to look at your actual FAFSA record and determine how to handle your situation - there's a few routes they might take. And of course, whatever they do would be a professional judgment, which is not something that they are required to do - but I hope that they would be willing to do so if it's documentable and justifiable, and makes a difference in your daughter's aid. Schools have different policies on how to handle things like this, but I'd highly recommend you gather up any documentation you have, make your written request for consideration of special circumstances because they will probably want this for the file, and contact the school as well to ask what else they might need from you.

One other thing - often, a school will not process a special circumstances consideration unless the student has already accepted their aid package (this doesn't mean necessarily accepting the loans if you don't want them, but indicating that she will be attending the school and "accepts" the offer they've made.) You can always decline the aid package later in writing if she decides not to go, so if this is DD's first choice make sure to ask the school if there's anything else you need to do to have her request considered. Best of luck to you!

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

I will probably be flamed... however...

doesn't anyone save for college? I see a couple who mentioned they did, but otherwise I see a LOT of parents upset about the amount of money the schools expect them to contribute. I am disheartened by the number of people who don't or haven't saved a penny when, in fact, you've known this day was coming since the stick turned blue! This is where sacrifice comes in; things like not taking a vacation every year, even though you feel you deserve one, choosing Pop over GF even if your credit card limit allows a stay at the GF, buying a Honda instead of an Escalade, even if the salesman says you qualify. These are the choices we make throughout our adult lives that can help or hurt our kids in the long run, when it comes time to pay for the thing that really matters... the education!

Just like those commercials on TV where the savings waddles through the living room... you must make saving and savings a part of your life.

end of rant...

 

[phragmipedium]

I will probably be flamed... however...

doesn't anyone save for college? I see a couple who mentioned they did, but otherwise I see a LOT of parents upset about the amount of money the schools expect them to contribute. I am disheartened by the number of people who don't or haven't saved a penny when, in fact, you've known this day was coming since the stick turned blue! This is where sacrifice comes in; things like not taking a vacation every year, even though you feel you deserve one, choosing Pop over GF even if your credit card limit allows a stay at the GF, buying a Honda instead of an Escalade, even if the salesman says you qualify. These are the choices we make throughout our adult lives that can help or hurt our kids in the long run, when it comes time to pay for the thing that really matters... the education!

Just like those commercials on TV where the savings waddles through the living room... you must make saving and savings a part of your life.

end of rant...

People have different philosophies on whether or not they should be expected to contribute to their children's education. It's a controversial subject, but I think sometimes people forget that financial aid is there to help people finance an education - but for the most part, college isn't free and it does cost money. A lot of money.

I have heard many, many people tell me that they didn't qualify for any financial aid, but the truth is practically everyone qualifies for aid if they do the FAFSA (unless they have problems with the drug question, are international students, etc). It's just that sometimes that aid is only federal student and parent loans, which are not attractive to many people, especially those teetering just above the grant-eligibility levels. But they *are* financial aid, and they are offered to help finance an education if it has not been saved for and families have no other means to pay for it out of pocket. The student loans are guaranteed, which is helps students with no work history, credit, or job who would have a hard time otherwise qualifying for a loan on their own - and the parent PLUS loan has quite a lenient credit check, not based on credit score or income/debt ratio, that helps families borrow who might not otherwise be able to. For every ten parents or students that would call me distraught or angry that they only had loans, I would get a call from a parent who was just delighted and in tears, thrilled that they had been offered a way to fully finance their child's education - through Stafford and PLUS loans only! And the interesting thing was that the latter more often than not had quite a low Estimated Family Contribution, just out of grant range, and some of the angriest families had quite high EFCs. It's so interesting how the same news and aid package can be received so differently by people - everyone handles their money differently and has their own set of circumstances. Families and students have a lot of difficult decisions to make when it comes to college, especially if they have not saved and do not earn enough to pay out of pocket comfortably, but earn too much for need-based gift aid.

 

[Green Tea]

- but for the most part, college isn't free and it does cost money. A lot of money.

Great sentence. I will remember this when we discuss options after April 1 when ds is debating free school vs others that will likely not be free schools. You are right. We knew it wouldn't be free (this one option that is is a great opportunity, but the choice should still be his) and if ds wants one of the ones that isn't, I should be happy that he has found a place he can call home.

 

[ekmom]

I will probably be flamed... however...

doesn't anyone save for college? I see a couple who mentioned they did, but otherwise I see a LOT of parents upset about the amount of money the schools expect them to contribute. I am disheartened by the number of people who don't or haven't saved a penny when, in fact, you've known this day was coming since the stick turned blue! This is where sacrifice comes in; things like not taking a vacation every year, even though you feel you deserve one, choosing Pop over GF even if your credit card limit allows a stay at the GF, buying a Honda instead of an Escalade, even if the salesman says you qualify. These are the choices we make throughout our adult lives that can help or hurt our kids in the long run, when it comes time to pay for the thing that really matters... the education!

Just like those commercials on TV where the savings waddles through the living room... you must make saving and savings a part of your life.

end of rant...

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking as I read through this thread!