The Very First Dis Book Club Discussion Thread - The Pirate Latitudes

[steamboat will]

HEY! all
Nikkibelle, just heard about the book club on the podcast. Kevin mentioned you'd be putting a schedule together to say by what date we should all read to a certain chapter so we can all discuss the same stuff. sounds like a good idea, is this whats happening.

Getting my copy tomorrow, in paper!!! that stuff that existed before the kindle. O i so need a kindle.

SW

 

[*NikkiBell*]

HEY! all
Nikkibelle, just heard about the book club on the podcast. Kevin mentioned you'd be putting a schedule together to say by what date we should all read to a certain chapter so we can all discuss the same stuff. sounds like a good idea, is this whats happening.

Getting my copy tomorrow, in paper!!! that stuff that existed before the kindle. O i so need a kindle.

SW

Welcome! I am trying to get a hold on how often everyone can read so I only put one date up thus far, March 13th. We're shooting to have read Part I by then. The discussion will go focus on that section from hereon and then we'll move to the second section.

Trust me, I am a paper kinda gal myself. I am reading the old-fashioned way as well.

 

[Applemomma]

We’ve mentioned earthworms and leeches but how about that oil of a red haired dog concoction!

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Good one! I forgot about that! -hurl-

I like the idea of casting the movie. Anyone have ideas so far for who could play each character? I'm not that far in yet and am not sure what my choices will be.

 

[georgemoe]

Okay everyone! I'm on the waiting list at the library! I can't wait to start it so I can join in! I'm just too poor to buy it!

What about ebook format Michelle? I got it from my library that way.

 

[KittyKitty]

Michael Crichton is one of my favorites,started reading him way back with Andromeda Strain. Seems like they all had a message to them.

I'm on the waiting list at the library,so may not start for awhile, but will be there for the discussions!

Thanks so much for starting this book club!

 

[ScubaD]

Welcome to those of you coming on board!!

I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts on the controversey surrounding the publication of Pirate Latitudes. It's definitely a hot topic. If you haven't chimed in yet, see the original post below for some background links on the web and a question up for discussion.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35667226&postcount=33

I began reading last night. Although I haven't gotten far in just yet (it's parent-teacher conference week - ugh lol), I found myself very interested by a few things in the first chapter. On page 5, Crichton describes several articles Governor Almont uses to get clean:

"Richards set out the articles of toilet: a fresh basin of rosewater, another of crushed myrtle berries, and a third small bowl of tooth powder with the toothcloth alongside."

I remember first using rosewater as a skin regimen after visiting the Grand Floridian Spa where they used it during a facial. It is such a beautiful treatment and really awakens the senses. I had no idea it was used in the 1600s for cleansing purposes.

Crichton later reveals that the "tooth powder" is a concoction made of "powdered rabbit's head, pomegranate peel, and peach blossom," (6). Could you imagine cleaning your teeth with something like that? I know that pomegranate juice is all the rage right now, but the peel mixed with a rabbit's head? We also learn that Almont used a "paste of olive oil, ashes, and ground earthworms to prevent his hair from turning white" (5). I think the earthworms would push me over the edge.

I also found his make up interesting. On page 7, it says he used white lead and vinegar to color his face along with a red dye of seaweed. Again, I found these products interesting. When I was in college, I studied medieval literature and learned much about the hygiene products used back then. I don't recall hearing about animal parts or vinegar being a part of the equation.

What are your thoughts on these hygiene products? If you lived in the 1600s, would you feel comfortable using them? What was the most interesting part of Chapter 1 for you?

I'm off to read Chapter 2. Happy reading!

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

 

[Applemomma]

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

I think it starts to paint the picture of a man who is doing the best he can given the situation he finds himself in; that even though he finds himself on that "god forsaken island" he is not willing to do with less or tolerate less...which does come into play later.

 

[Minnie&Mickey]

I downloaded a sample of this to my Kindle, but just couldn't get into it. I'm very excited about the Book Club, so I might have to give it one more try. Thanks for organizing this, Nikki!

 

[DisneyKevin]

Having a bpot pf sciatica today...so there is a lot of time to sit and read.

I'm enjoying the story very much.

I would not have been a good pirate.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I love this discussion of what type of a person you would be during the 1600s. I'd like to think that I'd be born into the priviledged class, but know the likelihood of that happening is very slim. I'm very attracted to that lifestyle though; who isn't? I love the concept of dressing up everyday, having servants, a large mansion, etc. I also adore this time period's clothing especially those for women. Ahh, a girl can dream.

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

I think it starts to paint the picture of a man who is doing the best he can given the situation he finds himself in; that even though he finds himself on that "god forsaken island" he is not willing to do with less or tolerate less...which does come into play later.

I have mixed feelings about the governor. He definitely has the snooty air to him and I agree that he wants to be more than what it appears he deserves. I am wondering if this would come up later on as well. A type of attitude like this can definitely be lethal. Just think of Macbeth and all of his and his wife's troubles by the end of the play. Their thirst for power and fame led to catastrophe, and this is so common in literature.


I'm about halfway through Part I at this point. How is everyone else doing? I'd like us to discuss as we read so even if you are only a few chapters or pages in, stop by to tell us your thoughts. We're set to finish the first part exactly one week from today. Feel free to go ahead if you are ready to, but be sure to pop over here and share your thoughts on Part I.

Happy Reading!!!

 

[Applemomma]

Having a bpot pf sciatica today...so there is a lot of time to sit and read.

I'm enjoying the story very much.

I would not have been a good pirate.

Try the oil of a red haired dog Kevin! If it worked for gout maybe it will work for your sciatica!

Again I say......

 

[Applemomma]

I love this discussion of what type of a person you would be during the 1600s. I'd like to think that I'd be born into the priviledged class, but know the likelihood of that happening is very slim. I'm very attracted to that lifestyle though; who isn't? I love the concept of dressing up everyday, having servants, a large mansion, etc. I also adore this time period's clothing especially those for women. Ahh, a girl can dream.

I would think it would all get a bit boring after awhile though. What else would you have to do with your day after you made your "toilette"and gave the servants your orders for dinner. I think you'd have to fill a lot of your time writing letters and doing embroidery. I can see me stretching the norms of society and mucking about in the horse barn or playing dice with the servant boys I wouldn't make a very good "Lady"

I have mixed feelings about the governor. He definitely has the snooty air to him and I agree that he wants to be more than what it appears he deserves. I am wondering if this would come up later on as well. A type of attitude like this can definitely be lethal. Just think of Macbeth and all of his and his wife's troubles by the end of the play. Their thirst for power and fame led to catastrophe, and this is so common in literature.

Without giving too much away his attitude comes into play at the end but perhaps not in the way you think

I'm about halfway through Part I at this point. How is everyone else doing? I'd like us to discuss as we read so even if you are only a few chapters or pages in, stop by to tell us your thoughts. We're set to finish the first part exactly one week from today. Feel free to go ahead if you are ready to, but be sure to pop over here and share your thoughts on Part I.

Happy Reading!!!

Nikki....could you do me a favour and tell me what the title of Part 2 is? Since I'm reading in audio I don't have the book to flip through and I'm scared I'll mention something too far ahead. The title of Part 2 might give me better reference as to what part of the story we're about to start discussing....pm me if you think it would be too much of a spoiler......Thanks!

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Lmao Good one. Maybe some ground earthworms would help too?

Part II is Chapter 14 - "The Black Ship."

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Here are a few more links to help us imagine Port Royal happenings in Part I.

Port Royal Maps
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/portroyal/archives/maps.htm


Logwood Cutting Info.
http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/269963/Logwood_and_Dye_The_Birth_of_B.html

 

[PinkBudgie]

Those maps are interesting. They help you picture it better.

I'm afraid I finished parts one and two. I couldn't stop! I've only been reading just a little at bedtime each night but I'm a fast reader. So last night I went back to another book to wait a little bit.

The thing that I always think of when I read books or see movies from that time period is that I would hate to be wearing those long dresses on a hot day!

 

[jpeka65844]

I would think it would all get a bit boring after awhile though. What else would you have to do with your day after you made your "toilette"and gave the servants your orders for dinner. I think you'd have to fill a lot of your time writing letters and doing embroidery. I can see me stretching the norms of society and mucking about in the horse barn or playing dice with the servant boys I wouldn't make a very good "Lady"

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

 

[PinkBudgie]

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

Well that goes with what I always thought: Now women "get" to work outside the home AND do the house hold chores because they are so "easy" (dishwasher, washing machine, etc.).

Now, if I went back to the 1600's and was the governer wife or upper crust and had severants I wouldn't mind some embroidery but I sure would miss my PC! Sometimes I wish I could just walk around during that time period- just to see.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I'm afraid I finished parts one and two. I couldn't stop! I've only been reading just a little at bedtime each night but I'm a fast reader. So last night I went back to another book to wait a little bit.

Feel free to keep reading! I actually finished Part I this afternoon. I also moved on to the beginning of Part II. Once everyone has the book, we can read a bit faster.

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

SPOILER - Commentary on Part I Below (Don't Read If You Haven't Finished)

That IS an interesting viewpoint. Let me make sure I am understanding correctly. The point of discussion was that modern household technology actually does the opposite of what it is meant (i.e. actually keeps women in the kitchen more than giving them more freedom)? Very interesting indeed.

I'm finding the role of women in Pirate Latitudes conflicting. The women who came over on the ship early on all seem interesting. Like Lyn said a few pages back, I'd be curious to hear their unique stories, but I do not think that is going to happen here.

Anne Sharp's character is also one I'm keeping watch on. At this point in the text, we do not really know much about her.

The girl could hardly have been more than fourteen or fifteen, with fair hair and a naturally pale complexion. Her eyes were blue and clear, with a certain odd, innocent amiability. She seemed entirely out of place in this churlish group (17).​

Anne's description paints a picture of a mousy girl of pure innocence. However, we learn later on that she is far from it. She offers herself to both Governor Almont and Robert Hacklett. Although Governor Almont uses his "inspection" of the supposed stigmata as an excuse, Anne does not refuse his advances. She actually seems pleased with them afterwards as they discuss her life in London and what brought her to Jamaica (28-29). The situation is much different with Robert Hacklett. After asking Anne to deliver a letter regarding the governor's involvement with privateering, she offers herself to Hacklett willingly (79). This is despite her knowing that he was married, something that is obviously not sacred in Port Royal during the 1600s.

I am also conflicted by Mrs. Hacklett. She is first introduced as a "slender, dark, foreign-looking young woman" who sat rigidly during her husband's initial meeting with Almont. I pictured her as being just an obedient wife and was surprised by her seduction of Hunter later on in the text (67, 75). Are no relationships sacred during this time period or is this something that is limited to Port Royal?

 

[Applemomma]

More Part 1 discussion.....scroll fast if you aren't through it yet!

Interesting observation about women and the "do it yourself" generation! Can't say I disagree with that. It is interesting to speculate that with all that extra time women would have taken advantage of it to become as educated as they were able formally, and of course informally, and be much more informed of the times and politics then women would be only a few generations later as well.

I love Anne Sharpe. She's one of my favorite characters. The witch theme comes up again too but smells like one of those parts that the author might have expanded on. If he had no intention of doing that I'd find that kind of disappointing.

It occured to me while I was relistening to the introduction of Hunter's character that we're given that whole run down of what the governor does in the morning so we can see the difference between him and Hunter. The governor's routine takes more then an hour and Hunters takes on a few minutes. Sets the tone for how different they are as men, yet going for the same things.

Also thinking about the governors personality he is probably much different then other aristocrats in that he has a bt of respect for his scottish servant ("he's clean") in a time when the English and Scottish were becoming increasingly at odds. Also he's pretty bent on protecting Hunter from the lable of pirate ..... you really should hear in audio the whole scene with Hacklett's face in the food....the narrator does a fantastic job!

Thanks for the links Nikki....I was reading this afternoon about the earthquake that destroyed Port Royal in 1692. There was also a real Pirate LeClerc (the criminal that was hung in the first chapter) though he lived 100 years before the time setting of this book....such an interesting place no wonder so many stories have been set there.