Rush makes racist comment.

[Galahad]

they must support the man even if he is wrong

Gee....care to oversimplify? I don't hear him as often these days as I use to buy I'd say I strongly disagree with him about 30% of the time. I would still defend this little interchange because he's not wrong.

 

[WIcruizer]

don't tell me what I have to understand

If and when I see other people from the NFL back up Rush's comments then I may change my mind.

So....apparently you DO need someone to tell you what to understand? Frankly, it's sickening that you tag someone with making racist comments where none exist. Another example of how you cheapen TRUE racism by looking for it where it doesn't exist.

Finally, I don't remember Jimmy the Greek's exact statement or how he presented it. From what I remember, he said something about black athletes being superior because of genetics. What's wrong with that statement? Are we so afraid of the truth that we run away from any discussion related to race unless it meets the "unwritten rules?"

 

[AirForceRocks]

Both were true if you are willing to look at the players and their abilites as race related.

Where, in Rush's comments, did he say or imply that McNabb's abilities are race related?

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by jimmiej
Rush's comment was about football, not race. And as usual, he's right on! Need another example? See Tiger Woods.

1) Tiger Woods - at least for a couple of years - was unquestionably the best golfer in the PGA. He broke records left and right. That's not a case of the media creating a firestorm - it's a case of them discussing the existing blaze. Even the continuing focus on him during his "slump" can easily be explained by the fact that everyone is expecting the "slump" to be over at any second, and they want to make sure they're there to record it. ("Slump" in quotes because he's still pretty fricking awesome, it's just that compared to his own performance of a couple years ago, he's not doing as well.)
2) Can't speak for anyone else, but my interest in Tiger (as a marked contrast to my utter boredom with 99% of the rest of them) isn't that he's (partially) black, it's that he's young and has some fashion sense!

Totally different scenario than McNabb's. I don't know enough about football to rattle off his stats, but I'm sure if he were wiping the floor with the rest of the NFL like Tiger did in the 2000 PGA season, I'd have heard about it on SportsCenter!


Back to the OP - sorry, Mike, but I have to go with the crowd here. Yes, he's making a comment about race and its part in the media attention to and coverage of a given athelete, but that doesn't make it a racist comment. Talking about race <> racism.

 

[Geoff_M]

First of all, if Rush is now explaining himself better on his show today I have not heard it.

Nor have I.

Secondly, don't tell me what I have to understand. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you understand more than I do.

I respectfully disagree... It's important that you understand the difference. In the thread title you call the comments "racist", but then refer to them as "racial" in your posts. You use the two terms as if they're equivilent.

Case in point... This summer Rev. Jesse Jackson visited Benton Harbor, MI after riots triggered by the death of an African American during a police chase by white officers. He expressed that part of the frustration that helped fuel the riots was that the local African American population felt that they had been neglected by the state government because of their race. Was what Jackson said "racial"? You bet. Was it "racist"? No. Now if he had added this is due to the fact that "The White Man is the Devil!", then yes it would be a racist comment.

don't know what AL said

Campanis was a jughead that worked in the front office of the LA Dodgers in the 80's. He was interviewed about the lack of minorities in management positions in Major League Baseball. He said it was because (paraphrased): "It's because Blacks lack the organizational skills to be good managers." He was summarily fired by the Dogers.

I see no difference between what Rush said and what The Greek did years ago. Both were true if you are willing to look at the players and their abilites as race related.

Show where Limbaugh even came anywhere close to relating McNabb's skills with his race.

IMO people who are not racist, or know better than to make racial comments, can make comments without the need to specify race.

So by your definiation Jackson's comment were racist too???

If and when I see other people from the NFL back up Rush's comments then I may change my mind.

Come now! Your mind was made up about Rush being a racist long before he uttered one word about McNabb. Your OP betrays your feelings on this one. This whole thing is one big ink blot test for people who dislike Limbaugh. It's like the old joke about the guy who went to his shrink and the doctor gave him an ink blot test. To every picture displayed, the patient replied "It's two people making love." Afterwards the doctor asked him "Why did you give the same answer to every sheet?" And the patient shot back "Ask yourself! You're the one showing me the dirty pictures!"

 

[cardaway]

If Rush wanted to make te comment he could have just said he was overrated, which is debatable given what you feel his value is compared to others at his position.

I still feel he was way off on both points. If what he was saying was true, not only would people be talking about Jeff Blake being a great QB (but they don't because that would make his statement true) but he would have others in the media or league saying he is right and they have been giving black QB's more credit than they deserve.

I am quite fine to agree to disagree on this topic and that is what I will be doing. Like I said, if more comes out I may change my mind. Doesn't mean I don't understand the situation, but that kind of comment does lead me to stepping out.

 

[MHopkins2]

Even if you think Rush's statement is 100% inaccurate (both McNabb being overrated and that "overrating" being due to his race), that doesn't make the statement racist. I think from reading your posts that you may be allowing your general dislike of Rush and your disagreement with his premise to affect your judgement of the statement itself.

 

[AirForceRocks]

ITA MHopkins.

 

[Geoff_M]

If Rush wanted to make te comment he could have just said he was overrated, which is debatable given what you feel his value is compared to others at his position.

I agree that he could have merely said "McNabb is overrated". But going on to state his opinion as to why some people have placed him on a pedestal after his early successes doesn't make him a racist.

 

[cardaway]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Even if you think Rush's statement is 100% inaccurate (both McNabb being overrated and that "overrating" being due to his race), that doesn't make the statement racist. I think from reading your posts that you may be allowing your general dislike of Rush and your disagreement with his premise to affect your judgement of the statement itself.

Ahh, somebody who makes a comment I can respect.

First of all, my dislike for Rush is not figuring into this, but I have seen what I would view as racist comments coming from him before. It would be just as easy to say that jimmiej's comments are skewed by his being a fan of Rush.

Secondly, I still think the comment was wrong because he didn't simply say...

"I agree that he could have merely said "McNabb is overrated". But going on to state his opinion as to why some people have placed him on a pedestal after his early successes doesn't make him a racist."

...he added that this was the case because he is black. But you won't see me saying everybody is off base because they didn't understand that Rush made this a black issue when he did that. Is Rush (or anybody else) making the same case about Kurt Warner, Tom Brady... Nope... they are white and their overrating must be based on something else.

 

[Galahad]

"Wes" Clark has proven he is unqualified to be President because:

1) He's commenting on something this trivial for obvious political points.
2) He would fail basic 6th grade reading comprehension:

From the Miami Herald:

Democratic candidate Clark urges ABC to fire Limbaugh over McNabb remark

RON FOURNIER
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark on Wednesday urged ABC to fire conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh for saying the media wanted Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb to succeed because he is black.

Clark, a retired Army general who entered the race Sept. 17, called the remarks "hateful and ignorant speech."

Before McNabb led the Eagles to a 23-13 victory over the Buffalo Bills on Sunday, Limbaugh said on ESPN's pre-game show that he didn't think McNabb was as good as perceived from the start.

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

ABC is the parent company of ESPN.

McNabb said Wednesday he wasn't looking for an apology, because it's too late for that. But the star quarterback said he was shocked to hear such comments on television.

In a letter to ABC president Alex Wallau, Clark said, "There can be no excuse for such statement. Mr. Limbaugh has the right to say whatever he wants, but ABC and ESPN have no obligation to sponsor such hateful and ignorant speech. Mr. Limbaugh should be fired immediately."

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by cardaway
Ahh, somebody who makes a comment I can respect.

That's nice - people don't agree with you, so you don't respect their comments.

I guess you have some of your own biases as well cardaway.

 

[caitycaity]

don't be knocking donovan.

that all i have to say -- donovan is the man!

 

[Galahad]

...he added that this was the case because he is black. But you won't see me saying everybody is off base because they didn't understand that Rush made this a black issue when he did that. Is Rush (or anybody else) making the same case about Kurt Warner, Tom Brady... Nope... they are white and their overrating must be based on something else.

That doesn't make it a "black" issue. It points out an agenda based upon race by the media (in Rush's opinion). And sure, what's wrong with saying that Warner is overrated for reason A, McNabb for reason B, etc. I'm sure many of us think a who slew of black players are overrated for reasons other than their race.

If you say you've heard a lot of racists statements from Rush, then I submit that you are actively looking for racism. I've heard Rush say a lot of abusrd things, but not racists things.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by cardaway
Ahh, somebody who makes a comment I can respect.

Awww, thanks!

First of all, my dislike for Rush is not figuring into this, but I have seen what I would view as racist comments coming from him before. It would be just as easy to say that jimmiej's comments are skewed by his being a fan of Rush.

Fair enough. It was just a suggestion anyway. But if I may, even if a person has quacked 478 times in a row, that doesn't make a moo the next day into quack #479.

Secondly, I still think the comment was wrong because he didn't simply say...

"I agree that he could have merely said "McNabb is overrated". But going on to state his opinion as to why some people have placed him on a pedestal after his early successes doesn't make him a racist."

...he added that this was the case because he is black.

Yes, and that's because he thinks it IS the case because he is black. You can agree or disagree with him, but the comment doesn't have to be racist. Parallel example: Lawschool A has a loud and proud Affirmative Action program for homosexual students, because some big money alums are Lambda Legal Defense attorneys. If I say that Mediocre Gay Student got into the lawschool because she's gay, while Outstanding Straight Student got declined, does that make me a homophobe?

But you won't see me saying everybody is off base because they didn't understand that Rush made this a black issue when he did that.

I *totally* understand that Rush "made" this a black issue - because he thinks it IS a black issue. I know the comment ticked you off, but I have to come back to racial <> racist. I don't think you have to never mention race in order to avoid making racist comments.

Is Rush (or anybody else) making the same case about Kurt Warner, Tom Brady... Nope... they are white and their overrating must be based on something else.

Er, I assume he was making a case because he was doing commentary on McNabb's game?

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
That's nice - people don't agree with you, so you don't respect their comments.

I guess you have some of your own biases as well cardaway.

Well just FTR, I totally disagree with him too. Maybe it's just my sunny disposition that's landed me on the respect list?

(That was a JOKE.) ( )

 

[Geoff_M]

...he added that this was the case because he is black. But you won't see me saying everybody is off base because they didn't understand that Rush made this a black issue when he did that. Is Rush (or anybody else) making the same case about Kurt Warner, Tom Brady... Nope... they are white and their overrating must be based on something else.

So, when Rev. Jesse Jackson walked into that town in Illinois a couple of years ago and proclaimed that the level of punishment handed out to the local high school students that started a videotaped brawl in the stands of their football field was directly related to the fact that they were African Americans... then he's must be a racist because he interjected race into a situation where it didn't have to be. He merely could have said "The punishment doesn't fit the crime." And last year when those white kids hazed their classmates in Illinois during their annual powder-puff football game, did Jackson show up and plead against their suspensions... Nope! Same difference, no?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by cardaway
Is Rush (or anybody else) making the same case about Kurt Warner, Tom Brady... Nope... they are white and their overrating must be based on something else.

And that "something else" is probably that they were Super Bowl MVPs. McNabb has done nothing of this sort. And going into this weekend, McNabb was the lowest rated QB in the NFL, which is how the subject came up.

A better analogy would be Peyton Manning. He's in commercials all over the place, like McNabb, but he hasn't had success in the playoffs either. Is he so acclaimed because he's a cleancut, boy scout type (i.e., white)? I've heard people say exactly that, and it's probably true. But I'll bet Gen. Clark won't be demanding their resignations.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Jimbo
Is he so acclaimed because he's a cleancut, boy scout type (i.e., white)? I've heard people say exactly that, and it's probably true. But I'll bet Gen. Clark won't be demanding their resignations. [/B]

I imagine it's a combination of that, plus his dad and his history in a big time (love it or hate it) college program. The "cleancut boy scout" thing goes beyond race, though - sponsors probably look at him as a safe bet. Same reason Emmitt Smith got more endorsement dollars during the Cowboys "era" in the early 90's than Michael Irvin did, even though they were both great players in their respective positions.

 

[Jimbo]

MHopkins2 - I demand your resignation!