Prices just hit my threshold :-(

[Slapshot1188]

They simply cannot compete on a theming basis with WDW- their attractions are a mish-mash of randomness pulled from a variety of areas.

Oh you mean kind of like "Frozen" ride opening in the Norway pavilion of EPCOT?

 

[MrInfinity]

Wow, just Wow, what a thread! I can't believe I've read it all, so far

I just have to say that we have been Disney fanatics for a long time. Our friends never understood it, but accepted it! We were asked for our info on all things Disney for years, and we gave it happily. The why and how we love it and all the wonderful times at Disney. Some got it, some didn't.

Now when people ask us, I find it difficult to try to explain all the changes a Disney vacation involves. When I say you have to make adr's 180 days in advance at certain parks you have to pick for that day, and you get penalized if you don't make it? They don't understand! What? you have to decide when and where you are going to eat that far in advance? on a vacation? (I know I know, you don't have to make adrs, but come on, get real, if you want to eat at your favorite sit down restaurant, you do have to) Then I try to explain the fp+ concept in addition to adr's. What, you have to set up 3 attractions for each park while you are there? (again, you don't Have to, but we all know you have to if you really want A&E, 7dmt, tSM, etc) I get the responses of," How do we know which park we will want to be in at 60 or 30 days out? What if the kids are sick, we just don't want to go to HS that day, change our plans and do a water park? There's no way to know that? Get real! By the time I get through fp plus, with restrictions such as tiering, they are shaking their heads at the amount of planning involved. Almost to a person, they say that Disney is too much planning for them. I tell them we still go, but yes, it is a lot of preplanning.
When someone who does not know about all this preplanning learns what hoops you have to jump just to go there, they are rightfully amazed!

Telling people all this now is a big change from what we used to tell them about Disney. It is just sad. The only ones who thought nothing of it were my daughterinlaw and family. She just said, yea but we are going. They paid a huge amount for the family, and when asking the grandkids what they did, I found out they did not really ride anything, esp the headliners. They did the 3rd rate, no=need for fp type of rides, and not many of them due to the lines. They were disappointed, but not to the point of us Disney veterans are. They just didn't know better. And they are one and done with Disney. Just not interested enough in a repeat because of the cost and experience.

This is what I think will ultimately hurt Disney in the future. The word of mouth is very important to a business. When the veterans such as us have difficulty trying to explain it all, what then? So, I think it is right that the people who are "recent years" visitors might be one and done too, or they might hang in there because they don't know the how it used to be with customer service, great meals, ambience, the importance of show, and just too much more that we have seen decline and have been mentioned over and over here.

I am saddened more than anything, but we are going this fall and hope that the decline doesn't continue as we have seen in recent years.

This is making a trip to Disney World out to be way more complicated than it is. Most people do not care about all of this.

You tell people you have to make ADRs at 180 because YOU have to make ADRs at 180. Most people don't. We went in 2010 with no ADRs and the DDP, we picked things day-of and had a blast. Did we get into CRT? No, we learned about it then, couldn't get in, so we noted to reserve it next time, and did. It wasn't a big deal. And most guests never used FP- and now can use FP+ to skip a few lines, it is not so complicated that if you do not stay up till midnight to book A&E, you won't get to see them or ride the Mine Train.

If what you tell people about Disney is sad (yet you still love to go) then why are you talking about things that sadden you about Disney instead of talking about what makes you happy or why you actually go. Especially when it comes to vacations, people want to talk to people about how they will have fun, not how Disney isn't as good as it used to be.

You're just making it sound complicated in general because it's complicated for you.

We have a great time at Disney World, so we go! People we know go with WAY less planning, down to almost no planning, and come back with great memories and their kids are talking as fast as they can about this and that experience, not how it was sad and not great. Just because you feel compelled to plan does not mean everyone is so.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree. I'm a librarian. Harry Potter not going to get old any time soon.

My older nephew has just started reading the HP books. His mom asked me if he could borrow them, so he has all 7. He's hooked.

He enjoys playing Disney Infinity, but there's not a lot for his age (9) that Disney offers that isn't Princess related, and he's very much anti-princess. I am positive the next time his family goes to Orlando, they will be going to WWoHP for at least a day, if not more.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Oh you mean kind of like "Frozen" ride opening in the Norway pavilion of EPCOT?

No I think he meant all of Hollywood Studios.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

No I think he meant all of Hollywood Studios.

Or maybe Pandora going into Animal Kingdom?

 

[3DisneyFanz]

JK Rowling has complete control over the HP areas of the park because Universal was smart enough to cede that control to her. Disney refused, so she took her ball and went and played somewhere else where the suits were willing to let her vision reign supreme.

Yeah but it all worked out for Disney. They jumped on the next big franchise that has had world wide appeal and crosses generations lines and gave up control for Avatar. No not the Japanese anime cartoon that's popular but the movie. You know the one with the blue people. No not the smurfs the other blue people. Never mind just know "floating islands".

That's kind of like Sean Connery signing up for League of Extraordinary Gentlemen after passing on Lord of the Rings and Matrix.

 

[momof2n2]

This is making a trip to Disney World out to be way more complicated than it is. Most people do not care about all of this.
You tell people you have to make ADRs at 180 because YOU have to make ADRs at 180.

You're kidding right? Do you have daughters? Because I do. Lots o' them. And most of my friends have daughters. And guess where most of my friends want to take their daughters to eat.

 

[Happy_2_B]

I disagree with about 99% of this entire post...oh wait...NO... It's a full 100% I disagree with. If your attitude is simply "Disney will continue to get worse and worse and charge me more and more and I'm still happy about it." Then I have a cup of Kool-Aide for you.

Edited to add: and OF COURSE bpadair "likes" it! LOL!

I am realistic- no more, no less. One can choose to agree to disagree with me- but be VERY careful with the insults. I do not need Kool- Aide, as I am not a child. My opinions and views are just as valid as anyone else's. Cyrano has already been on this thread and gently warned people about respecting other's opinions. It might be wise to heed that warning- or not- totally up to the individual poster how they view moderator input. As for me, I have been very careful to not insult other posters while making my views known, and am able to 'agree to disagree' with other posters and remain polite about it. Apparently, not everyone feels the same.

 

[jesse8931]

JK Rowling has complete control over the HP areas of the park because Universal was smart enough to cede that control to her. Disney refused, so she took her ball and went and played somewhere else where the suits were willing to let her vision reign supreme.

Cool.....

 

[Art 1]

Hey Art,
no, I think we absolutely do get it, I think the problem comes up because when we post that we're done, we generally get a very heavy push back and told we are "haters".

I am in no way a hater of Disney, I love the place but the quality of the product no longer is worth my money.

You are absolutely right it is just like other quality items. I love coach bags but I do not spend my money at the coach outlets, the quality of the outlet stores is totally different imo than their full line store.

Car manufacturers at least know that they have to up their game every few years, that's why every new year model is consistently improving. Can we really say that about Disney? heck no. In no area are the parks better than even 3 years ago.

Disney IMO has become an outlet. As I mentioned, two out of the 4 parks are antiquated and only worth half of the admission, I'm a dvc owner and the resorts are less well maintained and the food has gone downhill (again just my experience). My last visit was actually one of the better ones in 5 years.

So I am doing just what you said, I'm turning around and leaving. now I'm hoping with the promised expansions and refurbs that I'll return but for now, there are many other places.

I simply cannot continue to pay more for less. why is that hard to understand?

It's funny because I would bet in almost every other area of peoples lives, no how would they continue to fork over money for less, heck, I've seen people here throw hissy fits because the ice cream cartons are no longer full size. Yet because Disney does the very same thing, it's ok.

I'm glad some still find value at the Mouseworld but sky high prices and all I'm getting is a free picture cd is simply not enough for me anymore.

That's all we're saying

I would agree that the quality has gone way down. There is no way I would spend 5K for a WDW vacation. But people who haven't, and it's a very populated world with many emerging peoples who will.

 

[momof2n2]

You're just making it sound complicated in general because it's complicated for you.

OH and what the heck, I'll go there too...
It is complicated. For anyone.

If you watch a planning DVD, or a random commercial, or hit the website, what do you see? They don't advertise the cornhole and hula hoops. They plaster the media (and the highway) with their E-ticket attractions. And if you aren't on your game you will miss your chance of doing them without horrendous waits.

Every girl with a pulse knows about Anna and Elsa. And it won't be long before parents have to decide between Frozen ride, TT, and Soarin'. AND they will need to lose sleep to nab that FP+. Having a successful day at WDW (by the general public's estimation of successful) is most certainly COMPLICATED. [I won't get into how once-upon-a-time they could have done all of them!]

And by "general public's estimation" I am totally speaking for a lot of people BUT I do so confidently. MOST PEOPLE do not think sitting on a bench sipping Dole Whips is a worthwhile investment for $3,000+.

Seriously - if a friend - a real friend - were to ask about WDW, how could Disneyseniors, or I, or anyone else NOT try to lay it all out for them? My friends don't have money growing on trees, or parents with DVC. They are forking over real thousands and they want their kids to meet Anna, ride Test Track, and ride TSMM. They want to eat with Cinderella. They don't want ambiance and people watching. They want ROI.

 

[MrInfinity]

You're kidding right? Do you have daughters? Because I do. Lots o' them. And most of my friends have daughters. And guess where most of my friends want to take their daughters to eat.

Not kidding. Yes, have a daughter, see my signature. If you want to take your kids to eat there, then make a reservation. Just saying most people do not set out with that as a requirement. Most probably don't even know it's something they could do, until like us, they get there and learn about it. And obviously most cannot do it in a day, because the restaurant only handles so many yet there are 50,000 guests in the MK. So are you saying that anyone who simply cannot fit in CRT (which will be like 98% of the guests) should leave disappointed? That is absurd. To go to Disney World, not get to eat at a restaurant and leave disappointed. By your expectation that you must eat there else it's a fail, pretty much all trips are doomed. ROFL.

If you watch a planning DVD, or a random commercial, or hit the website, what do you see? They don't advertise the cornhole and hula hoops. They plaster the media (and the highway) with their E-ticket attractions. And if you aren't on your game you will miss your chance of doing them without horrendous waits.

We waited 2 hours to go on Under the Sea with Nemo when it opened at Disneyland, and we were happy to do so cuz it was opening week. So what. It's a THEME PARK we go expecting lines, like everyone else.

Every girl with a pulse knows about Anna and Elsa. And it won't be long before parents have to decide between Frozen ride, TT, and Soarin'. AND they will need to lose sleep to nab that FP+. Having a successful day at WDW (by the general public's estimation of successful) is most certainly COMPLICATED.

Again most people don't study it this deeply. Just cuz you do, you are assuming that is typical but it's just not. It's not a problem to go and ride them via waiting in line. Such is the normal expectation.

And by "general public's estimation" I am totally speaking for a lot of people BUT I do so confidently. MOST PEOPLE do not think sitting on a bench sipping Dole Whips is a worthwhile investment for $3,000+.

Why would you do that?

Seriously - if a friend - a real friend - were to ask about WDW, how could Disneyseniors, or I, or anyone else NOT try to lay it all out for them? My friends don't have money growing on trees, or parents with DVC. They are forking over real thousands and they want their kids to meet Anna, ride Test Track, and ride TSMM. They want to eat with Cinderella. They don't want ambiance and people watching. They want ROI.

Again, you want these things. Other people are going to Disney World to ride some rides, but to wait for them is not a problem. They're not trying to do 20 in a day. 5 or 6 is typical, and a breeze to do with no planning.

Neighborhood kids go and really do come back with wonderful stories about how awesome it was. None of them are griping about the waits. That is a Dis-thing, for people who used to be able to skip every line by FP-.

It's obviously hard for you to relate to people having a good time there without being planned to the hilt, but they do.

 

[JimmyV]

You tell people you have to make ADRs at 180 because YOU have to make ADRs at 180. Most people don't. We went in 2010 with no ADRs and the DDP, we picked things day-of and had a blast. Did we get into CRT? No, we learned about it then, couldn't get in, so we noted to reserve it next time, and did. It wasn't a big deal.

I think this highlights the difference between theory and practice. (With the "practice" being a "sometimes" thing, and not an "always" thing.) In theory, non-experts don't know what they don't know, and therefore cannot plan for the unknown and cannot be disappointed by failing to achieve the unknown. Looks good on paper, and your experience supports the theory. You learned about CRT while you were there. But in practice, others, (many, many others), will learn about it before they go, but well after the 180 day mark. Their friend, or neighbor, or co-worker will say: "Ooooh. You're taking your family to Disney World? You have to have breakfast at CRT. It s the best! Your kids will love it!" And so that person, heeding the advice of their friend, embarks on the crusade to book CRT...and fails. And to them, it might be a big deal. So where that leaves us is that the person to whom you were replying has one set of expectations (and emotions if and when those expectations are either met or not), and you have a different set of expectations, and then there is everyone else in the world whose expectations and emotional reactions are somewhere in between. And the "in between" does present itself as a slightly more (or wildly more) complicated planning process than you employ. Doesn't make you wrong. But I think it is wrong to suggest that most people go into a WDW vacation without a care in the world and with limited expectations. The sample size of people that I know who have planned WDW vacations over the past few years is admittedly small. But the vast majority of them have commented on how taxing and nerve wracking the process is. Blame it on information overload. Blame it on irrational behavior. But here is where perception becomes reality.

 

[jesse8931]

OH and what the heck, I'll go there too...
It is complicated. For anyone.

If you watch a planning DVD, or a random commercial, or hit the website, what do you see? They don't advertise the cornhole and hula hoops. They plaster the media (and the highway) with their E-ticket attractions. And if you aren't on your game you will miss your chance of doing them without horrendous waits.

Every girl with a pulse knows about Anna and Elsa. And it won't be long before parents have to decide between Frozen ride, TT, and Soarin'. AND they will need to lose sleep to nab that FP+. Having a successful day at WDW (by the general public's estimation of successful) is most certainly COMPLICATED. [I won't get into how once-upon-a-time they could have done all of them!]

And by "general public's estimation" I am totally speaking for a lot of people BUT I do so confidently. MOST PEOPLE do not think sitting on a bench sipping Dole Whips is a worthwhile investment for $3,000+.

Seriously - if a friend - a real friend - were to ask about WDW, how could Disneyseniors, or I, or anyone else NOT try to lay it all out for them? My friends don't have money growing on trees, or parents with DVC. They are forking over real thousands and they want their kids to meet Anna, ride Test Track, and ride TSMM. They want to eat with Cinderella. They don't want ambiance and people watching. They want ROI.

You do know you can stand in a line.....

I've rode every ride at Disney and seen Anna and Elsa all with out a fastpass.

 

[JimmyV]

You do know you can stand in a line.....

Sure. But that is why momof2n2 used the term "ROI". (If I can be so bold as to put words in her mouth). If you know a family that is going down during a crowd level 8-10 time period, and they ask you for some sage Disney wisdom, my guess is that you aren't going to tell them to "wing it". Not when there are alternative strategies available. You will help them map out a plan of attack, and when you get the blank stares and the "you've got to be kidding me" responses from your friend, it will hit you just how complicated this can become. "Oh, don't worry about it. Just wait in line" is a strategy. But it is the lowest possible ROI.

 

[momof2n2]

You do know you can stand in a line.....

I've rode every ride at Disney and seen Anna and Elsa all with out a fastpass.

Did you ride everything you wanted in five days in the same trip? With multiple rides on your favorites? I used to be able to. I have my doubts I'll be able to replicate that this trip.

 

[jesse8931]

Did you ride everything you wanted in five days in the same trip? With multiple rides on your favorites? I used to be able to. I have my doubts I'll be able to replicate that this trip.

Yes. The only time it was iffy was epcot last year.

 

[WillAustin]

Seriously - if a friend - a real friend - were to ask about WDW, how could Disneyseniors, or I, or anyone else NOT try to lay it all out for them? My friends don't have money growing on trees, or parents with DVC. They are forking over real thousands and they want their kids to meet Anna, ride Test Track, and ride TSMM. They want to eat with Cinderella. They don't want ambiance and people watching. They want ROI.

The also want to do that when most people can travel (Summer, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, etc.). It's difficult to give someone good advice when they are going to pay $3000+ for a trip and then spend 2+ hours in lines every day, maybe more if they waited too long to book FP+s. The restaurants and attractions that get booked at 180 and 60 days are the exact ones that my friends mention when they return from a trip with their family saying, "I wish we would have known we had to book those so far ahead of time."

 

[MrInfinity]

Sure. But that is why momof2n2 used the term "ROI". (If I can be so bold as to put words in her mouth). If you know a family that is going down during a crowd level 8-10 time period, and they ask you for some sage Disney wisdom, my guess is that you aren't going to tell them to "wing it". Not when there are alternative strategies available. You will help them map out a plan of attack, and when you get the blank stares and the "you've got to be kidding me" responses from your friend, it will hit you just how complicated this can become. "Oh, don't worry about it. Just wait in line" is a strategy. But it is the lowest possible ROI.

What this tells me is you missed the boat in answering their question. Step one in helping someone is understanding them, and what kind of help they need. If you ask me for help on your Disney itinerary, I know you are an expert, so my help would be geared toward expert-level things like little tweaks. But if my grandma came to me asking for advice I would not tell her to run at rope-drop for SDMT or stay up overnight rigorously booking FastPasses... I would focus on how to make sure her phone is with her, whether to bring sandals or shoes, etc. The advice has to fit the seeker. If you give out the same advice to everyone and you're getting blank stares, then you missed a chance to help them in a way they would relate to. You assumed they were needing the advanced strategies that you use, when really they needed to know about more basic stuff first, or more likely, they just wanted to talk and be excited with you because they know how much you love it there, and you turn it into this horrendous task they face. How fun! So you don't have to tell them to wing it, but you want to judge by their body language and responsiveness to your advice, whether you are on the right page w the type of things you're telling them.

 

[JimmyV]

What this tells me is you missed the boat in answering their question. Step one in helping someone is understanding them, and what kind of help they need. If you ask me for help on your Disney itinerary, I know you are an expert, so my help would be geared toward expert-level things like little tweaks. But if my grandma came to me asking for advice I would not tell her to run at rope-drop for SDMT or stay up overnight rigorously booking FastPasses... I would focus on how to make sure her phone is with her, whether to bring sandals or shoes, etc. The advice has to fit the seeker. If you give out the same advice to everyone and you're getting blank stares, then you missed a chance to help them in a way they would relate to. You assumed they were needing the advanced strategies that you use, when really they needed to know about more basic stuff first. So you don't have to tell them to wing it, but you want to judge by their body language and responsiveness to your advice, whether you are on the right page w the type of things you're telling them.

And I would say that you missed an opportunity to help the person "up their game". I don't see any point in dumbing down my answer to fit the person's current state of knowledge, and instead see more value in tailoring my answer to help them "level up." If I see a blank stare, I will educate and explain instead of giving up. Neither of us is right, but we absolutely do look at the learning opportunity differently.