Is this a reason for Disney to worry?

[minnie-apple-mouse]

TDO most definitely cares what Universal's numbers are. They would be complete fools not to be paying attention to their closest competitor. Even if WDW's attendance numbers are 3X what Universal's are, what do you think their profit margin is? I recall reading somewhere it was an industry high 35% or so (not surprising given their "charge more for less" mentality over the past decade). So out of those 51,000,000 people who visit annually, 17,000,000 represent the profit. You don't think they'll care if 5,000,000 of them choose to spend their vacation dollars somewhere else?

I think UNI/HP is actually bringing WDW an additional 5 Million to be honest.

I know a LOT of people now deciding to go (to Orlando) JUST because of HP, and of course hitting WDW for the bulk of it since they are there. HP pushed a lot of folks on the fence to go.

Actually WDW/UNI is all one thing in a lot of minds. I love that, its all there for all of us to enjoy-just budgeting for what guests want to accomplish.

That and employing a lot of the same folks down there is always a good thing.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I think Comcast shouldn't remind people that they are associated with Universal. So when your cable guy shows up 10 hours late, if at all, you can not associated it with Harry Potter and Transformers.

If only those wands they sell at Universal could make the repair people show up on time. Thanks for the 8-10 appointment window instead of 8-noon. Now when he calls at 5 pm to reschedule, he's 7 hours overdue instead of 5.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Considering DCA passed IOA and passed USO, I don't think Disney is worried much.

 

[SoarinSC]

Disney will never have anything to worry about. Look at the flat IOA numbers. Harry Potter will only get Universal so far. WDW will always be an experience most people will want to have at least once in their lives. So unless humans stop having babies, there will always be a new generation having their first trip to WDW. That will keep Disney on top pretty much indefinitely. If you look at the last TEA report..Universal's number went up, true, but so did WDW's..so Disney is benefiting all the way around.

Disney's true worry is capacity issues, both at WDW and Disneyland. That's their true big quandary right now.

 

[DisneyHoosier]

With all the uproar related to pricing at Disney, I still think the capacity issue drives pricing more than the 'greedy profit mongers' at Disney. The parks are overcrowded. Until there is more space the only way to cut down on the capacity problem is to raise prices significantly. True, some people get priced out and that's sad. But ultimately Disney is smart enough to know where the pain point is - they raise prices, cut attendance and STILL make more money because the price point more than makes up for reduced attendance. Even better (in their eyes) those who DO attend have a better experience theoretically because the lines are shorter. As Avatar Land (which I still despise conceptually) and Star Wars, etc. come online we have more space and they'll draw more people at that new price point.

My perfect work is the 5th park being the competition to Universal - I want Disney to build the ultimate roller coaster park. Big rides, amazing rides, get that demographic that feels like they've 'outgrown' Disney - RNR and TOT aren't enough in the thrill department to hold the Teens and young adults unless they have the Disney genetic code like most of us - think Cedar Point on steroids and build it bigger than ever as the 5th park - that's the ultimate solution to capacity problems and to attracting a demographic that tends to migrate to Universal instead. . .

 

[rteetz]

Disney will never have anything to worry about. Look at the flat IOA numbers. Harry Potter will only get Universal so far. WDW will always be an experience most people will want to have at least once in their lives. So unless humans stop having babies, there will always be a new generation having their first trip to WDW. That will keep Disney on top pretty much indefinitely. If you look at the last TEA report..Universal's number went up, true, but so did WDW's..so Disney is benefiting all the way around.

Disney's true worry is capacity issues, both at WDW and Disneyland. That's their true big quandary right now.

Well Universal is still growing and is doing more than HP. Kong next year, new resort, new major water park, marvel upgrades, and who knows what else.

Universal also doesn't raise prices like Disney does.

TEA numbers are estimates and neither Disney nor Universal post official numbers. Disney has grown in attendance according to their numbers but actually Epcot, and DHS have been higher than where they are currently. The only park with a capacity issue is the Magic Kingdom.

 

[rteetz]

With all the uproar related to pricing at Disney, I still think the capacity issue drives pricing more than the 'greedy profit mongers' at Disney. The parks are overcrowded. Until there is more space the only way to cut down on the capacity problem is to raise prices significantly. True, some people get priced out and that's sad. But ultimately Disney is smart enough to know where the pain point is - they raise prices, cut attendance and STILL make more money because the price point more than makes up for reduced attendance. Even better (in their eyes) those who DO attend have a better experience theoretically because the lines are shorter. As Avatar Land (which I still despise conceptually) and Star Wars, etc. come online we have more space and they'll draw more people at that new price point.

My perfect work is the 5th park being the competition to Universal - I want Disney to build the ultimate roller coaster park. Big rides, amazing rides, get that demographic that feels like they've 'outgrown' Disney - RNR and TOT aren't enough in the thrill department to hold the Teens and young adults unless they have the Disney genetic code like most of us - think Cedar Point on steroids and build it bigger than ever as the 5th park - that's the ultimate solution to capacity problems and to attracting a demographic that tends to migrate to Universal instead. . .

The only major park with a capacity issues is the Magic Kingdom. I don't see Epcot, DHS, or AK having capacity issues right now.

5th park will likely come eventually. However Disney will never do a six flags park. Large metal coasters are not something they do. I also don't think the park would be bigger than AK.

 

[Eoghann]

The only major park with a capacity issues is the Magic Kingdom. I don't see Epcot, DHS, or AK having capacity issues right now.

5th park will likely come eventually. However Disney will never do a six flags park. Large metal coasters are not something they do. I also don't think the park would be bigger than AK.

And I would argue that the capacity issues would be a lot less if they hadn't let Epcot stagnate, failed to build up AK when they should have and essentially turned DHS into a shadow of a park. Properly developed those three parks should be able to handle a huge number of additional visitors (that would then not be in the Magic Kingdom).

Any capacity issues are ones of their own creation, increased pricing is not a solution, it's a benefit for Disney. More people at a higher profit margin..

 

[rteetz]

And I would argue that the capacity issues would be a lot less if they hadn't let Epcot stagnate, failed to build up AK when they should have and essentially turned DHS into a shadow of a park. Properly developed those three parks should be able to handle a huge number of additional visitors (that would then not be in the Magic Kingdom).

Any capacity issues are ones of their own creation, increased pricing is not a solution, it's a benefit for Disney. More people at a higher profit margin..

Agreed 100%

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Considering DCA passed IOA and passed USO, I don't think Disney is worried much.

The fact they're 3,000 miles away and have a completely different demographic doesn't cause a pause before unsupported conclusion, huh?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And I would argue that the capacity issues would be a lot less if they hadn't let Epcot stagnate, failed to build up AK when they should have and essentially turned DHS into a shadow of a park. Properly developed those three parks should be able to handle a huge number of additional visitors (that would then not be in the Magic Kingdom).

Any capacity issues are ones of their own creation, increased pricing is not a solution, it's a benefit for Disney. More people at a higher profit margin..

1000%

Epcot and animal kingdom if maintained and strategic planned to even a reasonable competent level would handle as many people as magic kingdom without much issue.

And that is completely on CMB and his sitcom expertise...

Eisner lost his mind...remember that ak was a huge problem of his final years...

But he and wells with Roy backing them didn't sit on Epcot for 10
Years when they took over and they did get at least "phase I" of animal kingdom built.

The key difference? Is that Eisner and wells were studio men that quickly realized the value in parks and learned/studied what the hell they were doing...

While studio bob is a cruise control cat who never met a ledger he didn't like.

Eisner was a creative man...sad he couldn't deal with the beast in later years. This guy is a suit.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

The fact they're 3,000 miles away and have a completely different demographic doesn't cause a pause before unsupported conclusion, huh?

And you think the logical supported conclusion when Disney's park in the U.S. that was a punching bag for years passed both Universal Orlando parks is that Disney is worried? Talk about unsupported conclusions.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And you think the logical supported conclusion when Disney's park in the U.S. that was a punching bag for years passed both Universal Orlando parks is that Disney is worried? Talk about unsupported conclusions.

California adventure was not a "punching bag"...it was so horribly designed and constructed that people chose to reject it...doing the right thing.
The got a full, completely new park and it's 10 feet away from the sacred cow of all things Disney...

Of course it was gonna rebound. Which shows how reckless the original park was. It should have sold itself.

Jeez...it's not like a bully shoved DCA into s locker or something....

Disneyland has a better fanbase...there is little doubt. They've moved a monolith that does what it wants...

Now in Orlando? It's "how do I book the wishes dessert party?!? How magical!!!"
Not "these fireworks are 13 years old and there seems to be half what there used to be...hmmmm"
I realize that doesn't apply to one time visitors...but what's everyone else doing/watching?

 

[adam.adbe]

I realize that doesn't apply to one time visitors...but what's everyone else doing/watching?

They're buying overpriced margaritas in Disney Springs.

 

[atricks]

Disney will never have anything to worry about. Look at the flat IOA numbers. Harry Potter will only get Universal so far. WDW will always be an experience most people will want to have at least once in their lives. So unless humans stop having babies, there will always be a new generation having their first trip to WDW. That will keep Disney on top pretty much indefinitely. If you look at the last TEA report..Universal's number went up, true, but so did WDW's..so Disney is benefiting all the way around.

Disney's true worry is capacity issues, both at WDW and Disneyland. That's their true big quandary right now.

Those published TEA numbers for IOA seem very off based on the comcast quarterly reports alone, mentioning the two park tickets and the Hogwart's express. In fact I think all those numbers are suspect. Flat attendance with a new ride that requires a ticket to IOA (And Universal own earnings reports disputing)? It doesn't add up at all.

 

[VegasMike]

At this point in time it comes down to square footage. WDW is just huge by comparison. This makes it a good week long destination. As long as this holds true Disney will hold it's place.

 

[DDLand]

Those published TEA numbers for IOA seem very off based on the comcast quarterly reports alone, mentioning the two park tickets and the Hogwart's express. In fact I think all those numbers are suspect. Flat attendance with a new ride that requires a ticket to IOA (And Universal own earnings reports disputing)? It doesn't add up at all.

It's actually consistent with the idea Universal has successfully been updating and expanding Universal Studios in an aggressive way. Look at Disneyland for comparison during the years following Cars Land and DCA's rebranding; attendance wasn't phenomenal in the original park. Another comparison would be the effect Animal Kingdom had on the three existing Disney parks at WDW. Attendance at those three nosedived as there was a rebalancing among the parks.

What we also know is the connection link has led to an increase in park hopper options being bought at Universal Florida. Those tickets supposedly only count first gate clicks. So thousands more could be going to IoA, but they wouldn't be counted like the thousands who leave AK and DHS who go to MK.

Instead of being "suspect," they seem more than logical.

@SoarinSC, that one flat year at IoA was not a big deal as the resort rebalances itself.

 

[Magickingdomprince]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/26/1-more-reason-for-disney-world-to-worry.aspx

What do you think?

i find dinseyworld and universal are 2 different parks. disney is for the magic and characters and all around fun time. Universal is more for rides, and drinking, all around more adult park.

people will always be going to disneyworld.. no matter how popular uni gets.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

i find dinseyworld and universal are 2 different parks. disney is for the magic and characters and all around fun time. Universal is more for rides, and drinking, all around more adult park.

people will always be going to disneyworld.. no matter how popular uni gets.

This I find to be the textbook complacency argument.

"Disney will always be better"

That is why they can continually lift prices no matter if they reduce quality or fail to invest the proper amount of capital to stave off stagnation. It's a shortsighted approach.

Now that being, ever motley fool type article is critical toward Disney for what is the opinion that they've become fat and greedy and aren't doing enough anymore in Orlando. They may be right, but it comes off as strict bias. I think that their recent construction and stated planning goals show a better approach and give them some slack. If I'm defending Disney here...the "journalism" must really be unfair.

But universal is not just roller coasters and booze anymore. Epcot was always far more booze than universal and now that is dilapidated by choice from Burbank.

Just not realistic/fair comparisons. The gap is closer...Disney is still king...universal wants it more right now.
I think that's fair.

 

[Mac30188]

As a consumer, this is the best thing that could ever have happened. I don't believe for a second that it is a coincidence that Universal's large growth is followed by a significant investment by Disney in rides. Competition drives innovation and ensures the consumer gets the best possible product. Worried is probably more of a relative term. They are certainly keeping an eye on Universal, but I don't think that anyone is predicting this will lead to the downfall of Disney. If anything, SeaWorld is the one who should be worried.