I just learned today...

[sam_gordon]

Partly because you need them (unless you have another form of acceptable id) to fly domestically now.

Please don't give out inaccurate information.

First, Real IDs aren't required for flying until May 2025, *IF* it doesn't get extended again.
Second, TSA WILL let you through with NO ID providing they can confirm your identity another way... https://www.tsa.gov/travel/frequent...fication-can-i-still-proceed-through-security

 

[Buzz Rules]

This says 56%: https://www.americancommunities.org/who-owns-a-passport-in-america/#:~:text=Nationally, 56% of American adults,survey data from MRI-Simmons

This says 37%: https://today.yougov.com/topics/tra...ly-one-third-americans-have-valid-us-passport

I find it hard to believe the first statistic. You don't NEED a passport to travel and see all kinds of locations. I took my first international trip when I was 18.


According to you and @Buzz Rules, my parents should have been required to purchase five passports that I would have gotten ZERO use out of. It's not like some family is deciding "Hey, let's go to Europe in 3 months! Oh darn, we don't have passports."

I don't mean just for going abroad. I meant as an alternative ID to fly domestically.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Please don't give out inaccurate information.

First, Real IDs aren't required for flying until May 2025, *IF* it doesn't get extended again.
Second, TSA WILL let you through with NO ID providing they can confirm your identity another way... https://www.tsa.gov/travel/frequent...fication-can-i-still-proceed-through-security

I said as an alternative ID to fly not the only one. But it is a very convenient option for the future.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't mean just for going abroad. I meant as an alternative ID to fly domestically.

So purchase a passport for $150+ or provide a DL ($20?). No, a passport is NOT needed to fly, even domestically. And if you're under 16, you don't need to provide ANY ID.

 

[sam_gordon]

I said as an alternative ID to fly not the only one. But it is a very convenient option for the future.

Really? I find my DL, which fits in my wallet or a pocket, MUCH more convenient than a passport.

 

[Buzz Rules]

So purchase a passport for $150+ or provide a DL ($20?). No, a passport is NOT needed to fly, even domestically. And if you're under 16, you don't need to provide ANY ID.

The laws will probably continue to change further laws that focus on security increases. I'm not trying to argue just stating my opinion.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Really? I find my DL, which fits in my wallet or a pocket, MUCH more convenient than a passport.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html

 

[Buzz Rules]

This says 56%: https://www.americancommunities.org/who-owns-a-passport-in-america/#:~:text=Nationally, 56% of American adults,survey data from MRI-Simmons

This says 37%: https://today.yougov.com/topics/tra...ly-one-third-americans-have-valid-us-passport

I find it hard to believe the first statistic. You don't NEED a passport to travel and see all kinds of locations. I took my first international trip when I was 18.


According to you and @Buzz Rules, my parents should have been required to purchase five passports that I would have gotten ZERO use out of. It's not like some family is deciding "Hey, let's go to Europe in 3 months! Oh darn, we don't have passports."

And by the way, I believe passport prices should be capped at different levels based on tax brackets but that is an entirely different issue that we can't discuss here.

 

[sam_gordon]

The laws will probably continue to change further laws that focus on security increases. I'm not trying to argue just stating my opinion.

Well, the "law" requiring Real ID has taken 15+ years (if they don't extend it again) to implement. I don't see a law requiring a passport to fly domestically as being realistic.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html

So now you want folks to carry TWO cards... a Driver's License and a passport card (that can't be used for international air travel). The Real ID works as the DL and ID for domestic flights.

For someone who travels to other countries, yes, a passport card or book is a requirement. Wanting it to be a requirement for ALL Americans (which is what you said you wished happened) is an unnecessary burden.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Well, the "law" requiring Real ID has taken 15+ years (if they don't extend it again) to implement. I don't see a law requiring a passport to fly domestically as being realistic.

So now you want folks to carry TWO cards... a Driver's License and a passport card (that can't be used for international travel). The Real ID works as the DL and ID for domestic flights.

For someone who travels to other countries, yes, a passport card or book is a requirement. Wanting it to be a requirement for ALL Americans (which is what you said you wished happened) is an unnecessary burden.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I don't think that @Buzz Rules was implying that it should be some hard and fast law; of course there is a set of Americans who may not ever need one as they don't travel.

What I was agreeing with was the general principle that most folks should get their kids passports. Who knows when they might need it? It can also teach them about what it means to have American citizenship and what the purpose of a passport actually is. That is how I introduced it to my son and it led to a great learning discussion.

Furthermore, It introduces kids to the concept of international travel - why we do it; what we can learn from it; how can we do it ethically and not harm the destinations we are visiting; helping them cultivate an interest in the world around them and be curious. This curiosity leads to understanding and an interest in other cultures and hopefully to breaking down barriers that overall makes this world a nicer place to live. You can call me all new agey or whatever but I truly believe that travel can change peoples lives and thus improve the world. And frankly, even if he never uses it, for those lessons alone, it was worth the 150$.

Just my take on the matter.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I don't think that @Buzz Rules was implying that it should be some hard and fast law; of course there is a set of Americans who may not ever need one as they don't travel.

What I was agreeing with was the general principle that most folks should get their kids passports. Who knows when they might need it? It can also teach them about what it means to have American citizenship and what the purpose of a passport actually is. That is how I introduced it to my son and it led to a great learning discussion.

Furthermore, It introduces kids to the concept of international travel - why we do it; what we can learn from it; how can we do it ethically and not harm the destinations we are visiting; helping them cultivate an interest in the world around them and be curious. This curiosity leads to understanding and an interest in other cultures and hopefully to breaking down barriers that overall makes this world a nicer place to live. You can call me all new agey or whatever but I truly believe that travel can change peoples lives and thus improve the world. And frankly, even if he never uses it, for those lessons alone, it was worth the 150$.

Just my take on the matter.

This. I was saying that there may be a law in the future that does require one depending on how the world goes in the next couple years for security reasons but I was trying to say that it could possibly be covered by the government if it ever became a requirement.

 

[lilaurora]

I got my kid one when he was born and have renewed it regularly since. I couldn't agree more with you. It used to be that a rather small percentage of Americans carried passports but I think the number is somewhere near 65% now which is encouraging.

I wonder if a contributor to the increase is due to passport requirements to travel to Canada and Mexico where previously US citizens didn’t need one.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

So now you want folks to carry TWO cards... a Driver's License and a passport card (that can't be used for international travel). The Real ID works as the DL and ID for domestic flights.

Please don't give out inaccurate information.

The passport card is for those who travel between the US and Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean by land or sea. It cannot be used for travel by air or to any other country. For that, a passport book is required.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I don't think that @Buzz Rules was implying that it should be some hard and fast law; of course there is a set of Americans who may not ever need one as they don't travel.

His words contradict that (bolding mine)...

I have always believed that everyone should be required to have a passport when they are born, so it will be easier for those kids to be able to have less travel issues in the future.

Of course, now he's backtracking...

This. I was saying that there may be a law in the future that does require one depending on how the world goes in the next couple years for security reasons but I was trying to say that it could possibly be covered by the government if it ever became a requirement.

MAY there be a law "in the future"? Sure. Never say never. But look at how long it took to implement the Real ID law (which still isn't done).

 

[sam_gordon]

Please don't give out inaccurate information.

The passport card is for those who travel between the US and Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean by land or sea. It cannot be used for travel by air or to any other country. For that, a passport book is required.

You're right. I meant "international air travel". I'll edit the post.

 

[soccerdad72]

Furthermore, It introduces kids to the concept of international travel - why we do it; what we can learn from it; how can we do it ethically and not harm the destinations we are visiting; helping them cultivate an interest in the world around them and be curious. This curiosity leads to understanding and an interest in other cultures and hopefully to breaking down barriers that overall makes this world a nicer place to live. You can call me all new agey or whatever but I truly believe that travel can change peoples lives and thus improve the world. And frankly, even if he never uses it, for those lessons alone, it was worth the 150$.

Just my take on the matter.

This all sounds great, in theory, to the average middle class American family. Fact is, however, that for a large number of families, the thought of flying internationally for vacation is a pipe dream. Any of three aspects of that is a dream - flying, vacation and international. The $150 spent on a passport might be a food budget for a family for a week, so it's unlikely they'll go without dinner for a week for the off chance they might have the funds to fly over to Europe.

 

[Buzz Rules]

His words contradict that (bolding mine)...


Of course, now he's backtracking...

MAY there be a law "in the future"? Sure. Never say never. But look at how long it took to implement the Real ID law (which still isn't done).

My belief is not the law and I'm saying the passport book/card can be used as a real ID with additional benefits compared to a standard real DL. I'm not back tracking, the laws keep updating and changing with most things being delayed and extended due to the Covid-19 crisis. Otherwise all the changes they want to put into place (and are similar to other countries) would have become the standard already.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

...that you cannot enter France (or the Netherlands for that matter) with an Emergency US Passport. They will put you in a holding cell at the airport and then you're on the next flight back to the USA.

(found out from a former student who learned it the hard way)

You can get an expedited passport in less than 48 hours, why not get a real passport?
I received a passport in less than 24, and the US passport office will print it while you wait for a same-day flight.

Also, your airline should have known better, they are responsible for transporting you back to the US if you are denied entry.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Isn't Real ID only required for flying (in regards to travel)? You can drive, walk, bike, take a train, bus, taxi, and all the other ways to travel domestically without a Real ID.
What process was "leaky"?
The Real ID act was signed in 2005 with an original "go live" date in 2008. The deadline is now May 2025... still over a year and a half away.

It will get punted again, and again, and again....

It was and is a feel-good measure that really nobody wants to see get instituted.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Isn't Real ID only required for flying (in regards to travel)? You can drive, walk, bike, take a train, bus, taxi, and all the other ways to travel domestically without a Real ID.
What process was "leaky"?
The Real ID act was signed in 2005 with an original "go live" date in 2008. The deadline is now May 2025... still over a year and a half away.

It will get punted again, and again, and again....

It was and is a feel-good measure that really nobody wants to see get instituted.