Hostess is Toast

[angwill]

Here's a twist to your twist. The total salary was $2.5 million after the increase. If they paid him nothing, and divided the money among all 18,000 workers.......they'd get $138 each.

I guess that makes him 2.5 million times more more important to hostess than every other worker there then.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Only if each Hostess employee were earning $1 per year. Did you mean "...eighteen thousand times more..."?

 

[sasywtch]

30 years is certainly not nothing, but it is one third less time than most folks will work. And it will likely less time than the average person will spend retired if they retire at ages 48 to 50.
The pensions I am referring to are public, and employees certainly contribute, but most of the money is put in by the employer (the state) and they are not fixed pensions, they are pensions with COLA increases, which are entirely funded by the state. I can not speak to all pensions, but many offer survivors benefits, but if you take that option, your original pension will be less per month, and the survivors benefits may be less than your full pension when you were alive.

Alrighty, CA state employee here

In 20 years, I have never seen anyone retire that early. I think it's a falacy that some have heard because a few have done it. Got to remember, there are 300K employees so it's bound to happen but it's not common for someone to retire that early. We have 70 year olds still working in my office.

No longer does the employer put in a lot of our retirement, our share is going up again in January. To add another wrinkle, 30% of state employees are self supporting agencies and are not paid out of tax dollars. We make the money to pay our salaries and that same money we collect pays the employer's share of retirement. We also don't get "free" healthcare when we retire. We still pay for it (granted at a lower rate then most).
DMV, Consumer Affairs, Equalization, Franchise, CHP are a few of the self supporting agencies.

Unfortunately as with most, the horror stories come from the most sensationalized workers, the managers who make 100K, the Correctional Officers, CHP officers who retire at 50 with 80% salary. Most of the 300K employees are peons such as myself who are having a hard time making ends meet in these times. I do have my PERS taken out of my check and it's going up again. I make less than what I made in 1997. Everything has tripled since then. (yes, I'm happy I still have a job, just don't want people to believe it's all roses working for the government because it's definitely not for most).

It's such a mixed up situation. I make money for the state but yet I'm furloughed with those paid by tax dollars so instead of me bringing money into the state, I have to take a day off (saving zero since tax dollars don't pay my salary). The gov borrows our money and then has to pay our department back with interest LOL Such a mixed up world. Funny, all the self supporting agencies have surplus dollars??????

 

[sasywtch]

Just got back from the new Walmart Neighborhood store that opened yesterday about 2 miles from my house. Okay, the number of workers in there asking me if I needed help got down right annoying!

If I go to the Super Walmart, there will be lines, can't say I remember having more than 3 or 4 folks ahead of me. I had one person ahead of me today at the neighborhood Walmart, but then they opened a new check stand to take us.

I drove by that the other day and saw the sign that said neighborhood Walmart and had no idea what that meant. Out of the loop I guess. We had left the Target area and was sneaking off to Red Hawk.

 

[sasywtch]

You also pay for the illnesses people get from their "free choice" to eat this garbage instead of real food. So, yes, the food choices people make affect all of us. I'm certain people will rush in to say that hey, they only eat them ocassionally, and it's none of my business. At the micro level, I agree. At the macro level, we are all paying for the incredibly poor health choices made by most Americans. Look at the escalating rates of obesity and diabetes (and the HUGE costs of both of these to our medical system).

I have a response typed out but deleted it. I hate the blaming of snack food companies for all our woes. Having a snack food now and then is not going to cause obesity. Sitting on our fannies in the homes playing video games is not helping. Kids tend not to play outside all day like we did (way back in the olden days). I saw the change in my kids and I can't blame anyone but myself for the time they spent inside the home. I prefer to blame individuals for choices rather than blame snack food companies because I couldn't control myself.

 

[TLSnell1981]

.
I guess Twinkies won't survive the apocalypse after all.

Nope, but the cockroaches will be the lone survivors.

You do what you have to do. You make changes to your life style.

Personnally, a 8% reduction in pay is a whole lot better than what they are going to get with unemployment. That will be more like a 60 to 80% pay cut. A benefit reduction - insurance (?) - I would rather have to pay more than not have any, seeing as you don't have an employer sponcered plan any more.

Frank Hurk thinks, that unemployment is better, than a wage cut. Although, 70% disagrees with him.

No, that's not the case. There are plenty of business owners who realize they have to treat their employees well in order to sleep at night and run a successful business. I worked for a man who dipped into his own personal savings account to cover salaries when times were hard (and the company did come through).
.

There was a time, we had to do this. Sadly, most employees expected it, and some wanted even more.

And when hostess starts a new company, with a new name, and hires workers at half the pay with no benefits, I will never buy a product from them.
It would be different if CEO's all made wage and benefit cuts too.

I will especially miss the raspberry zingers and orange cupcakes.

My brother worked for them for 27 years. He has 2 daughters in college and one in middle school. He is older than 50. He is a teamster driver and they voted to accept the deal...the bakers did not. Not sure what he is going to do.

I am so sorry for your brother and his families. This is why, I don't like unions. The choice isn't yours to make.

I think they changed the recipe or something some years back it was noticeable. Just wait til the brand gets bought and the twinkies get made in Mexico or something. Wonder what they will taste like then.

Please, not to Mexico. Now, Italy or France could be good

A receiving clerk making 48K? Maybe that is part of the problem.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Without the "parasites", as you so eloquently call the backbone of this country, there would be no "HOSTess".

Uh.. That's right. There is no Hostess.

 

[Albort]

That union reminds me of Disney's Hotel Union...

 

[angwill]

Only if each Hostess employee were earning $1 per year. Did you mean "...eighteen thousand times more..."?

Yep on the second sentence.

 

[SaraJayne]

Uh.. That's right. There is no Hostess.

There have been lots of issues with Hostess for many years, namely a VERY top-heavy organization. A one week strike didn't force them to close their doors, regardless of what the company tries to tell the public.

 

[foreUT]

OK here is a twist to add to the story. I read more than one article that stated that the CEO's all got huge raises shortly before filing for bankruptcy. Here is a quote from the huffington post

Hostess creditors accused the company in April of manipulating executive salaries with the aim of getting around bankruptcy compensation rules, the Wall Street Journal reported at the time. In response, Rayburn announced he would cut his pay and that of other executives to $1 until Dec. 31 or whenever Hostess came out of bankruptcy.

That was after Hostess had already awarded the company's top four executives raises of between 75 and 80 percent, even though the company had already hired restructuring lawyers, according to the WSJ.

The situation isn't specific to Hostess. Over the last 30 years, CEO pay grew 127 times faster than worker pay, according to a July report.

If you want a source just google Hostess CEO's salary raises.

Rayburn arrived in March 2012. He is a "turn-round expert" and he did not make a big salary from Hostess. The finger-pointing on the high-pay should be at the former CEO Brian Driscoll who arrived in 2009 (the timeframe Hostess was coming out of the first bankruptcy) w the $130 million Ripplewood investment. Dick Gephardt was the link to bringing in Ripplewood. Per the BCTGM press releases, the major sticking point w the union officials was the failure to pay into their pension fund. The Judge in the bankruptcy said there was no money in the corporation to do that. The Teamsters looked at the numbers and settled. The BCTGM officials played chicken with the company and lost. Because they did not have a secret ballot, as the Teamsters did, they cheated their members, imo, of having an option to choose without coercion.

 

[foreUT]

There have been lots of issues with Hostess for many years, namely a VERY top-heavy organization. A one week strike didn't force them to close their doors, regardless of what the company tries to tell the public.

The BCTGM did not plan to end the strike after a week. Why should the creditors continue to support a company that might have not produced for weeks, months? The bankruptcy Judge told the unions there was no money for the pension funds. The Teamsters understood, while the BCTGM refused to accept the Court's decision.

 

[manning]

What the mystery to me is why so many don't get it. You have these unions negotiating fantastic retirement benefits and members saying yes thats great and go along with it.

Then that ugly word pops up.....UNDERFUNDED.

You retire with, lets say, a 30,000 a year pension. GREAT.

Wait a minute, there's no money in the fund to pay you. IT'S UNDERFUNDED.

One problem with public owned companies is they work for the stock holder. The stock holder is always looking for the short term profit and wants there money now. Many can see that in Disney. The money is going to stock holders at the price of the product you're getting.

Private companies don't have that problem

One example I remember is Sunbeam and Wahl, competitors. Sunbeam, a public owned co, had to close 18 of 36 plants.

Wahl, a privately owned business, didn't have to face that problem. Asked why the company was profitable the owner said the money he had to pay stock holder could be put back into the company. He could think long term instead of short term.

 

[Pipkin]

Without the "parasites", as you so eloquently call the backbone of this country, there would be no "HOSTess".

My guess is that there are 18,500 unemployed Americans who would be glad to take those jobs and would gladly do so without joining a union.

 

[Mkrop]

I had the Tv on and I dont even know what channel it was on, was running around getting kids ready, but I heard that the Union would not allow the same products to be delivered on the same truck, so Wonderbread and Twinkies could not be on the same truck together even if they both had to be delivered to the same supermarket. Sounds pretty inefficient to me. I dont know more, I dont even know who they were interviewing, it might have been on Fox

 

[foreUT]

My guess is that there are 18,500 unemployed Americans who would be glad to take those jobs and would gladly do so without joining a union.

A friend was tabulating the large companies that had called for layoffs just this month and he was up to over 85,000. How terrible for someone to lose their job, especially during the holidays. Sad.

 

[tvguy]

Alrighty, CA state employee here

In 20 years, I have never seen anyone retire that early. I think it's a falacy that some have heard because a few have done it. Got to remember, there are 300K employees so it's bound to happen but it's not common for someone to retire that early. We have 70 year olds still working in my office.

No longer does the employer put in a lot of our retirement, our share is going up again in January. To add another wrinkle, 30% of state employees are self supporting agencies and are not paid out of tax dollars. We make the money to pay our salaries and that same money we collect pays the employer's share of retirement. We also don't get "free" healthcare when we retire. We still pay for it (granted at a lower rate then most).
DMV, Consumer Affairs, Equalization, Franchise, CHP are a few of the self supporting agencies.

Unfortunately as with most, the horror stories come from the most sensationalized workers, the managers who make 100K, the Correctional Officers, CHP officers who retire at 50 with 80% salary. Most of the 300K employees are peons such as myself who are having a hard time making ends meet in these times. I do have my PERS taken out of my check and it's going up again. I make less than what I made in 1997. Everything has tripled since then. (yes, I'm happy I still have a job, just don't want people to believe it's all roses working for the government because it's definitely not for most).

It's such a mixed up situation. I make money for the state but yet I'm furloughed with those paid by tax dollars so instead of me bringing money into the state, I have to take a day off (saving zero since tax dollars don't pay my salary). The gov borrows our money and then has to pay our department back with interest LOL Such a mixed up world. Funny, all the self supporting agencies have surplus dollars??????

I think you mean your job is not funded out of the General Fund, every state worker is paid with taxpayer money, even those where the money comes from fees.
I also understand that it can vary from Department to Department and union contract to union contract, but you have to remember my perspective, as someone who works in an industry that loses most of our people to state jobs. I also understand that what you pay into retirement has gone up, but unlike other retirement plans, if CalPers does a poor job of investing, retiree benefits don't go up, they got to the state for money to close the shortfall.
I don't count CHP and Fire folks because there's is a who other situation, but I have 5 people on my block who are retired at the 30 year mark with full benefits, age range 50 to 55, 3 from DMV,and 2 from General Services.

 

[MolonLabe]

My guess is that there are 18,500 unemployed Americans who would be glad to take those jobs and would gladly do so without joining a union.

I would agree with that.

I think the bakers union will go down in history next to these guys:

Unions lost their necessity when O2 sensors replaced canaries in the coal mines.

We aren't living the dark ages anymore.

 

[dakcp2001]

But we are living in a country where it is legal to work 16 hour shifts with no meal breaks in my state. So until that changes, I'd say Unions will still have a place. Would you want the nurse caring for your family member to be on their feet for 16 hours with no break?

 

[MolonLabe]

But we are living in a country where it is legal to work 16 hour shifts with no meal breaks in my state. So until that changes, I'd say Unions will still have a place. Would you want the nurse caring for your family member to be on their feet for 16 hours with no break?

So much for the union huh?

I'm a health care professional. Here is a better question for you, would you rather the nurse or the surgeon be on their feet for 16 hours with no break?

It's rhetorical because you would NEVER find a situation (as I type this, in any of the 50 states, outside of a mass casualty incident) where a RN would work for 16 hours strait and no break but you do find situations where Physicians do, in fact, work 16 hours without a break.

BTW, the reason there is not a law prohibiting that is because it would really suck for someone dying, to die, just so a nurse could get a smoke break during a mass casualty situation.

You see, if there was such a law, the RN would HAVE to take the break, whether they wanted to or not.

Again, you won't find that happening (outside of a mass casualty incident and probably not even then) anyway. Sorry but your scare tactics are all smoke and mirrors.