Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

[jade1]

Planogirl, you're on to something interesting

Take the saving 20K part out of Lake's thread. It's the spending time and money off property that's key.

And Jade, you've used the same strategy as Lake - sched your FPs in a tight window so you, like Lake and others, can go somewhere else and do other things. That strategy seems to be coming up a lot.

That's not the scenario they drew up on the whiteboard and sold to the Board. Keeping guests on-property and spending while dropping expense was the deal.

They left the "choice" up to the guest IMO.

Could have easily said 1 FP+ in the AM, 1 in the afternoon and one in the PM if they wanted to keep folks in the park.

Careful what you point out IMO.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I far away from the one claiming that.

I didnt call it the "doomsday scenario"

I said a major recession could kill the middle class as the Disney core customer...

And with the price increases at wdw and the Income disparity in society as a whole...they will never catch up and become the main clientele again... And there's no feasible plan to fill the void.

 

[jade1]

No illusions...it's always been the brand that tied it all together and made the parks a ridiculous success. That is still the model.

Yep agreed-and that goes for first timers, folks with limited funds, repeat visitors and lifers.

 

[jade1]

I didnt call it the "doomsday scenario"

I said a major recession could kill the middle class as the Disney core customer...

And with the price increases at wdw and the Income disparity in society as a whole...they will never catch up and become the main clientele again... And there's no feasible plan to fill the void.

You mean "another" major recession.

 

[jade1]

They've Convinced themselves that they will always have that -
No matter what...and now the parks are run IP based. As evidenced by the rape of Norway...it doesn't matter if you slap paint on an old ride - as long as you put a known face on it.

We will see if going to that well works or not.

If Frozen/Norway is less/same successful than Maelstrom-it will open at 11AM.

If it's more successful-it will open at 9AM.

 

[DDLand]

I didnt call it the "doomsday scenario"

I said a major recession could kill the middle class as the Disney core customer...

And with the price increases at wdw and the Income disparity in society as a whole...they will never catch up and become the main clientele again... And there's no feasible plan to fill the void.

Disney has flexibility. They can slash prices on the product if the time called for it. Also because they have the complete destination they can leverage everything from food, hotel, and ticket pricing to create compelling array of vacation packages. Of course this criticism has more to do with society as whole, and not WDW from what I can tell. If it's true that the American middle class is destroyed permanently, Disney can go sniff out the next up and coming markets...

Anyone for Chinese Food?

 

[jade1]

Disney has flexibility. They can slash prices on the product if the time called for it. Also because they have the complete destination they can leverage everything from food, hotel, and ticket pricing to create compelling array of vacation packages. Of course this criticism has more to do with society as whole, and not WDW from what I can tell. If it's true that the American middle class is destroyed permanently, Disney can go sniff out the next up and coming markets...

Anyone for Chinese Food?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney has flexibility. They can slash prices on the product if the time called for it. Also because they have the complete destination they can leverage everything from food, hotel, and ticket pricing to create compelling array of vacation packages. Of course this criticism has more to do with society as whole, and not WDW from what I can tell. If it's true that the American middle class is destroyed permanently, Disney can go sniff out the next up and coming markets...

Anyone for Chinese Food?

Lol...first Disney has never "lowered prices"... They've "deeply incentivized" them.

And when that happened last...CMB whined about on practically a daily basis. That plan is a stopgap...it can't be permenant. They are backing themselves into the corner on this point with every 10% increase.

Second...and this is the real point...there is no developing market to take the place.

So Disney parks are in aprecarious position moving forward and they're plan to address it..."call it luxury"...is fools errand

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We will see if going to that well works or not.

If Frozen/Norway is less/same successful than Maelstrom-it will open at 11AM.

If it's more successful-it will open at 9AM.

It's gonna have a line...nobody's disputing that.

But they leave these things in place for 25+ years...that decision was taken too lightly in my opinion

 

[DDLand]

Lol...first Disney has never "lowered prices"... They've "deeply incentivized" them.

And when that happened last...CMB whined about on practically a daily basis. That plan is a stopgap...it can't be permenant. They are backing themselves into the corner on this point with every 10% increase.

Second...and this is the real point...there is no developing market to take the place.

So Disney parks are in aprecarious position moving forward and they're plan to address it..."call it luxury"...is fools errand

Whoops, sorry about the slip of the mouse.

Yeah, as I said they can offer packages. Though the story you're predicting is one of the total economic collapse of everything we know. That would be totally new territory for not just Disney, but the entire Private sector. They'd be forced to take dramatic action, and I doubt Disney would be too stubborn to lower prices as they watched attendance collapse. Of course based on how the they navigated the last recession brilliantly I doubt they'd let themselves be caught flat footed.

I don't buy that we've hit the pinnacle of human civilization at this point. If not America, some other country will lead the charge into continued economic prosperity. Unless you're predicting a new dark age befalling humanity...


I'm just not sure where they should be focusing their attention if the middle class is going to disappear. Frankly I'm more of an optimist on that front, and I don't think Americans and other nations are going to just collapse. Let's say they do, who should Disney be targeting? The low income guests who can't afford a trip to Walt Disney World? Disneyland has that large LA area base, but Orlando isn't the same. Luxury stuff is not all that Disney has been after though. Art of Animation and DVC show a continued interest in making Disney vacations accessible to large groups of middle class visitors. Their small attempts such as the bungalows and Four Seasons are not substantial compared to the other massive additions made on the other side of the income spectrum. If they were after that upper income level they would be adding a boutique park, not overhauling DHS and DAK.

 

[wallrock]

That's interesting-some on here are saying the worst mistake WDW has made was constantly raising prices 11 years-yet it's off the table for you. Hmm.

And again-I agree-they can always lower prices if "needed".

Again I'm not sure what you're driving at. Where did I ever say that raising prices was off the table? We were talking about price reductions, not increases.

 

[clsteve]

They left the "choice" up to the guest IMO.

Could have easily said 1 FP+ in the AM, 1 in the afternoon and one in the PM if they wanted to keep folks in the park.

Careful what you point out IMO.

Just going by the other threads. You know, like the one where you had the pics of going to Uni, hitting a ballgame and catching evening FP's at EPCOT, all in the same day. I can't remember the thread - sometime late last year....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't buy that we've hit the pinnacle of human civilization at this point. If not America, some other country will lead the charge into continued economic prosperity. Unless you're predicting a new dark age befalling humanity...

In this point I agree....

But the core of the Disney park clientele in the US is the American middle/upper middle class...that's what it's been designed for and what had lined the McDuck money bin...

I know people have the perception that Brits, brazilians are "all over the place" at the parks...

That perception is wrong.

And if this is where somebody says "those with more money will simply go more"... There's a big problem with that theory too.

But we're way off course... And I'm getting sleepy. So we'll leave that stone unturned

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You mean "another" major recession.

Yes...and I don't understand if the keyboard is conveying either

A. Disbelief
B. Humor

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They left the "choice" up to the guest IMO.

Could have easily said 1 FP+ in the AM, 1 in the afternoon and one in the PM if they wanted to keep folks in the park.

Careful what you point out IMO.

You're right...they've shown great benevolence in their high priced ride rationing system

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's interesting-some on here are saying the worst mistake WDW has made was constantly raising prices 11 years-yet it's off the table for you. Hmm.

And again-I agree-they can always lower prices if "needed".

Since my education is lacking...please indicate the instances where prices were lowered at wdw.

Thank you.

 

[jade1]

You said: we can't lower the price

But if we want to get those folks in and we can't lower the price it's going to take a lot more than a FastPass to get them in.

I said" Why couldn't you lower the price?

Why couldn't you lower the price?

If doomsday hits, excuse me-when doomsday hits, dropping the price will get them in, and the unaffected ones as well.

You said: a price reduction at present isn't going to happen, so it's more or less off the table

From an earlier exchange I mentioned that a price reduction at present isn't going to happen, so it's more or less off the table. If it were on the table that would be the single factor in motivating that demographic into the parks.
.

I said: That's interesting-some on here are saying the worst mistake WDW has made was constantly raising prices 11 years-yet it's off the table for you. Hmm.

That's interesting-some on here are saying the worst mistake WDW has made was constantly raising prices 11 years-yet it's off the table for you. Hmm.

And again-I agree-they can always lower prices if "needed".

You said: Again I'm not sure what you're driving at. Where did I ever say that raising prices was off the table? We were talking about price reductions, not increases

Again I'm not sure what you're driving at. Where did I ever say that raising prices was off the table? We were talking about price reductions, not increases.

What I am pointing out is, if for 11 years they have raised prices-and you believe LOWERING the prices is off the table-you must believe the price hikes were justified-or they would be on the table.

I have never said they have lowered the prices-only that they could if needed.

But since you think it's off the table-that means the increases were justified.

 

[jade1]

Just going by the other threads. You know, like the one where you had the pics of going to Uni, hitting a ballgame and catching evening FP's at EPCOT, all in the same day. I can't remember the thread - sometime late last year....

Yes-my point is they "GAVE ME THE CHOICE" to reserve 3 FP+ in a row each evening (instead of spreading them throughout the day like FP- did "IF" you managed to get any), which tells me they are OK with a subset of visitors "choosing to vacation as they see fit". LT chose offsite stays and dining because he was able to lock down a decent touring plan "WITHOUT" getting an onsite hotel and rushing first thing in the AM.

Our choices are more in line with fishing and golf mornings-and we still prefer to stay deluxe. Disney knows that subset will stay as well.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

The question I'll throw out there is this truly due to an increased interest in Disney or is it because social media has made everyone so much closer and the conversations are being heard more? 20 years ago you wouldn't get news beyond your local broadcasts (CNN was around but hadn't quite made the impact yet). Today if there's news anywhere you'll hear about it, sometimes within the same day of the occurrence. I think things like Facebook have helped close that distance as well. This may not address the examples you cite around your church or workplace, but do either have something like a Facebook page where people discuss things outside of what is typically discussed in those venues? I know my workplace uses a social media site - Yammer - and that's helped bring people together with similar interests that probably otherwise wouldn't have met.

More to your example, is this something you've seen gradually increase since 2001 or did you notice a significant spike in 2014? I ask because the Frozen popularity (out debates notwithstanding) could have contributed to people discussing Disney more. I'd also wager that Disney's acquisitions over the past several years - notably Star Wars - have probably brought people into the Disney fold whereas they wouldn't have been interested before. In that regard you're probably right in that Disney is doing something right, but is it Disney that people are interested in or the properties they have acquired?

I think you are right about social media. Facebook (I see a bunch of Disney stuff and share with friends) and other media, especially YouTube videos. This has done a great deal to grow the mythos. Disney has a special standing in our culture like no other and therefore social media has magnified this. See what Disney did when they did not stop Frozen fans making videos and such. That was very smart.

I think it has been somewhat gradual, but a definite steady increase after about 2009 when the economy begin to improve. AND it got another spike when everyone was talking about Frozen and... Disney. Love Frozen, love Disney. Hate Frozen, still love Disney.

Long ago it was the Muppets acquisition, now Marvel and Star Wars. This is all going to add to the mythos. And each will cause a synergy of the whole. We aren't talking theme parks or entertainment giants. We are talking the AT&T of old when it was the only thing. There is no other. Movies, games, television, classics, superheroes, space cowboys, books, and on and on. As Disney continues to grow in the cultural consciousness like a black hole, all other theme parks diminish. They are but theme parks. Fun places to visit. But Disney. Disney is so much more now.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wdw is a premium consumer product paid for with the most disposable of disposable cash...

Reduction of price is not feasible. When has a product that had EVER been reduced in price not indicated a decline or outright collapse of the product/business?...with only the exception of technological replacement?

First, I don't know how the argument "just lower the price" has and ever can be effectively made...milk doesn't go down in price...or anything else other than the vcr.

Second, the crux of the argument...all of it...prices, magic bands, fast passes, lack of capital construction, shifting strategies...
Is "are they steering the parks on a wise course - short or longterm?"

"Just lower the price" doesn't compute...if only you believe in economics, socials strata, perception, consumer habits, or gravity...