Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

[Yellowstonetim]

I don't find all of lockedoutlogics posts negative. Yes some are but he looks at things from a realistic side without any pixie dust. Disney can do wrong and has done wrong they are not perfect neither are you or I or anyone else for that matter. I think lockedout offers a good perspective being a former CM, and a DVC member.

I cannot begin to read all his posts. I would like to see one that contains only positive about Disney. I never have. Not one. Realistic is NOT what we are talking about. He is being realistic from his point of view. I think he is unrealistically negative. I think I am being totally realistic. You probably think I am being all pixie dust and magic. Different perspectives. I don't think Disney is perfect, but they sure are firing on all cylinders and making the right decisions now, again from my perspective and the perspective of most people I know.

I think his perspective is interesting, but I think the baggage has altered perception. Sometimes - many times - people can be too close to an issue to see it objectively. I read dripping loathing, disdain, and anger in almost every post. That doesn't communicate objectivity. I just love Disney. Never worked there, no stock, no DVC, don't go every year. No axe to grind. And I see so much positive that is just absolutely dismissed and even derided here. Positives turned into hated negatives. (The last few statements are about things generally on the DIS, not LockedOutLogic)

 

[George4]

And if that's because they took a short term approach and mortgaged the quality foundation by letting the place become a broken down cash cow...

I completely agree with this statement. Others have disagreed, but I have made this same point. It isn't that people don't enjoy the vacation, its that more and more people are seeing the value of the vacation decrease as Disney tries to extract more profit from park visitors.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't see LockedOutLogic as negative either but then I have seen some truly negative people and he doesn't begin to compare. I see him as realistic and middle of the road but then it all depends on your perspective doesn't it?

The last few pages of discussion is interesting and it made me think about what I expect. I can see a day when people go to WDW only to hit the highlights much as we do. There is truly so much to do in Florida that it's mindboggling and I can even see people spending more time at Florida's lovely beaches. As Disney becomes just one company to deal with out of several how will they stack up as time goes by? I'm not saying that our part-time approach is the "right" way or common but I can't imagine that we're that unusual either.

 

[DDLand]

Whoa, I wouldn't go this far. Disney is far from being the AT&T of today as you can't monopolize creativity. Plenty of other companies producing entertainment.

And I doubt that Disney is 'growing'. To me, growing would be utilizing their own creative juices to come up with new ideas and not wait until someone else creates something and buy them out. If Disney had created the Marvel universe then I would agree with you. That said, acquisitions are always the easiest route to further success once you've established yourself. Now Disney has joined the ranks of IBM, General Dynamics, Kraft, General Electric and others like them so in a sense they are following the same path as other mature conglomerates. Hardly a mythos.

And that's one of the frustrating aspects I have with Disney - they have the talent to create their own universes and concepts but have decided to walk away from that.

There are new customers out there buying, but they all aren't buying Disney. They're buying the items Disney has acquired. When you buy a jar of Planters peanuts you don't think "wow, Kraft is one special company to make these!" You're buying them because you enjoy them - you've always enjoyed them and you were never concerned if the company was owned by Kraft or Nabisco.

I think you're right that they're a little (or infinitely) far away from monopoly on creativity. Though they do have a "monopoly" on Disney, Marvel, and Lucasfilm. Those staple of brands are worth billions, and a irreplaceable part of many people's entertainment lives. The fact they own those brands make them for the foreseeable future impregnable.

Disney though, (Disney Brand) has never been stronger.

Maleficent
Frozen
Big Hero 6
Cinderella

Have all been big. They're creating some great content. Their other subsidiaries are also doing excellent as well. Consumer Products and Disney Parks are both growing too. Broadcasting has been slower growing, though that's not in the Disney staple of brands (besides Disney Channel).

In fact the Disney brand has actually improved in recent years. Walt Disney Animation has gone from a has been to a success story. That's great news for the Disney brand.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What are you not? No, I live in Central Pennsylvania. Dozens and dozens of people at work, church, and other places all talk and love Disney. You are saturated and negative. Every single post. That's stating the obvious. You discuss in an entertaining manner and we have had many an enjoyable exchange. I'm just trying to figure out why you ended up so durned angry and negative. Why? When there is so much good. Frequent visitor, ex-employee, DVC, and too much Disney? How long and where did you work at Disney? You are definitely not the typical Disney visitor. Nor are your views typical. How much does perception and baggage color both our views? My baggage is positive and yours is negative? That is the point of discussions. We all think our view is the truth or at least the majority.

My mistake on geography...

Though I can't figure out why you see them as infallible...they've made tons of mistakes to go with their successes. But you have to simply not give them a constant, unwavering benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve that...especially in park management...why, I ask?

Critical thought and the quest for more insight are the path to wisdom... They are not "negative".

I get tired of living in a country where thought is now viewed as a bad thing...so I am most definitely jaded there.

But I am "overexposed"...so I admit I have heightened awareness...
Am I to apologize for that? Yield my time to one hit wonders who are NOT why the wdw complex was built up as much as it has been...

I apologize...I guess ???

I grew up near the 'Burgh...did "four in the State Penn U"...and live 12 Miles from center city Philly now...

Officially.

Bellefonte...right?

 

[jade1]

Jade, I'm agreeing with you. You broke the code!

And this discussion has nothing to do with the previous system. That system is gone. No reason to talk about FP- and the rest anymore - don't you think?

Plus, your previous posts, with all of those pictures, will be a huge benefit to a lot of future guests - how to get 3 rides in and then go off to do other things. You and Lake have a lot more in common than you realize when it comes to helping guests maximize their vacation time.

I mean, you have to be one of the first to document a morning in DA, a Bowl Game and an evening in EPCOT with tiered rides. That's good stuff and stuff to keep in mind for maximizing an Orlando vacation.

But, can we just leave the FP- stuff outside the door, maybe have a wake or something....?

I'm glad it's become clear to some-tried our best that's for sure.

As for dropping FP-, we really can-it's just that a thread about investing $billions on a magical wrist band including FP+ likely will lead to what positive changes that entails for some of us. Negative for others. And also what it can lead to for future offers/improvements.



If a simple "not possible with FP-" even though true is upsetting, I will change it for you.




Your still missing the "choice" part of the equation.

The percent that will "choose" to RD a park (having the evening set at MK for example) is way higher than the ones going to the beach and back, or even the WDW fishing and golf-but it's a choice regardless.

We RD'ed EPCOT in March and had Soarin and TT done by 9:34. Then could have went on either again or selected either one as FP+ at the kiosk.

Point is you could easily RD EPCOT or AK without FP+, do the whole park and have an evening at DHS or MK set with 3FP+/parades/dinner/fireworks-something not possible IN THE PAST.

Or you could fish/golf/shop/sleep whatever-it's all open for choices.

Giving us all of these options is exactly why we will be adding trips and longer stays-much more money for WDW-and very happy to give it. It's by far that much better with FP+ than IN THE PAST.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

My mistake on geography...

Though I can't figure out why you see them as infallible...they've made tons of mistakes to go with their successes. But you have to simply not give them a constant, unwavering benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve that...especially in park management...why, I ask?

Critical thought and the quest for more insight are the path to wisdom... They are not "negative".

I get tired of living in a country where thought is now viewed as a bad thing...so I am most definitely jaded there.

But I am "overexposed"...so I admit I have heightened awareness...
Am I to apologize for that? Yield my time to one hit wonders who are NOT why the wdw complex was built up as much as it has been...

I apologize...I guess ???

I grew up near the 'Burgh...did "four in the State Penn U"...and live 12 Miles from center city Philly now...

Officially.

Bellefonte...right?

Neighbor! I didn't realize you were PA! I live in Camp Hill across the river from Harrisburg. Technically South Central, but we always say central around here. Work for the Great Beneficent Commonwealth. Go Steelers! I never said they were infallible. Just doing great now. I love Disney, their recent decisions, the parks experience, etc. I love Pandora, Star Wars, Marvel, New Fantasy Land, Frozen, live action movies, etc. Not my fault I like this stuff. I'm not faking it. They are just doing things I and my friends like.

I am analyzing, thinking, and seeking wisdom too. And there is nothing wrong with thought or critical thinking. Nobody said there was. But wisdom and thought and analysis are neutral, neither negative nor positive, but objective. I give a lot of thought to Disney's business and operations. I love the business and logistical aspect of the magic.

Can you name me 5 things you love about Disney without saying anything negative in the post?

 

[wallrock]

AT&T is not a good comparison. Too small, only in the U.S., and only somewhat cultural significant. There are plenty of other companies producing entertainment. There is no other company in the same universe as Disney. Disney has monopolized the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone in the US and a huge majority around the world know Disney, love Disney. Just do research on the companies reach.

It matters not if you hire someone to write your script or buy their company. It matters not if it is by acquisition or internal. Marvel is now Disney as is Lucas Films. The mythos is not about the acquisition of businesses, it is about their hold on popular culture. EVERYONE today talks Disney and this is growing as the acquisitions AND original quality content grow. Frozen is the cultural quasar of 2013 and it is original Disney. They haven't walked away from anything. POTC is theirs too. So are the super successful live action movies.

The amazing thing about Disney is that when people buy Marvel they know and talk Disney. Same with SW. Disney is what is talked about.

There can be no denying the obvious ascendancy of Disney in our culture and worldwide. Both as a business and as an entertainment cultural behemoth. There isn't another company close. On the same track. In the same state. On the same continent. Disney has had a special place in America's heart that has grown since the 1940's, but in the last 15 or so years it has grown exponentially and spread around the world. Just Google the term Disney along with several varying other terms and then look at Google news. The articles are endless that talk about the startlingly unique position Disney is in and what is coming in the next few years.

Now that's laying it on pretty thick, and honestly I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. And to say that AT&T is too small in comparison (as far as companies in general are concerned) is flat out ludicrous. You do realize that Telephone and Telegraph are part of that acronym? Disney will never achieve the impact to American or world society the way Ma Bell did.

As a business, Tim Cook over at Apple could dig up the change in his sofa and buy Disney five times over.

Adjusted for inflation, John D Rockefeller by himself was worth nearly ten times as much as Disney. Countless other individuals and companies have contributed more to the world than Disney ever will. If you ask who was more influential on society - Henry Ford or Walt Disney - there's no real comparison when one created a cartoon and the other took the assembly line to the next level and changed the world economy.

I won't dispute the impact on entertainment (although I'll dispute the degree of impact), but don't go into a comparison with regards to a business impact.

Clearly Disney is the center of your universe and that's fine, but don't place it on an altar.

 

[DDLand]

You're way off base. I indicate that they will never lower prices because Disney wouldn't consider such a move and you somehow translate that into me thinking that the price hikes are justified? Just where do you get that?

Read any of my posts on this forum and see if I justify and back Disney's price increases. You'll get a clear picture of where I stand.

Actually yes you are saying that. Interestingly by stating that Disney would never suffer the loss of making that move, you're vindicating their strategy. You're implying that any loss incurred would not be offset by the gain of lower prices. That's interesting...

 

[wallrock]

Actually yes you are saying that. Interestingly by stating that Disney would never suffer the loss of making that move, you're vindicating their strategy. You're implying that any loss incurred would not be offset by the gain of lower prices. That's interesting...

Clearly you're having difficulty with interpretation as well.

I've stated in this dialogue that Disney wouldn't lower prices because they don't have to. Where am I saying that Disney would or would not suffer any sort of loss? As long as the masses show up there's no incentive to reduce prices. I indicated that it would be nice to do so to cater to the lower income crowd, which was the topic of the hypothetical conversation.

Again go through the history of my posts on these boards. Interpret as you see fit.

 

[jade1]

Clearly you're having difficulty with interpretation as well.

I've stated in this dialogue that Disney wouldn't lower prices because they don't have to. Where am I saying that Disney would or would not suffer any sort of loss? As long as the masses show up there's no incentive to reduce prices. .

So the 11 years of price hikes (including another one, what a month ago?) has led to the current pricing.

That current pricing wouldn't be lowered because they don't have to. The reason they don't have to, is with the current pricing the masses are showing up-so there is no incentive to reduce prices.

And the summary should be-obviously they raised the prices too far?


.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Neighbor! I didn't realize you were PA! I live in Camp Hill across the river from Harrisburg. Technically South Central, but we always say central around here. Work for the Great Beneficent Commonwealth. Go Steelers! I never said they were infallible. Just doing great now. I love Disney, their recent decisions, the parks experience, etc. I love Pandora, Star Wars, Marvel, New Fantasy Land, Frozen, live action movies, etc. Not my fault I like this stuff. I'm not faking it. They are just doing things I and my friends like.

I am analyzing, thinking, and seeking wisdom too. And there is nothing wrong with thought or critical thinking. Nobody said there was. But wisdom and thought and analysis are neutral, neither negative nor positive, but objective. I give a lot of thought to Disney's business and operations. I love the business and logistical aspect of the magic.

Can you name me 5 things you love about Disney without saying anything negative in the post?

Sorry, Tim...

I see we're all buddies now...

But your previous characterization/ rant directed specifically at me couldn't have been more wrong...it was presumptuous and condescending...and borderline personal.

I'm thick skinned...and I like to muse in a meaningful exchange with anyone... Even the quacks who are 100% wrong (not you... To be clear... The nuts that say "it's not money...it's magic and dreams!!" And my favorite - "only 718 days till I book my adrs!!!!"...The Act like ya been there before types)...so I like all opinions...even those I staunchly disagree with...

But why... Oh why...should I be required to give you things that you deem "positive"?

Disney has done tons of positive, innovative things...the list could go on for days...

Recently, in wdw? Not so much.

This is where I tow the "hater" line...

Those that "hate"... Are actually the core defenders of what the place was and could be...
Those that accept - I fear - will one day say "hey... What happened?"...when it's far too late to affect anything.

Good night, god bless

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I too...fail to understand how accepting that Disney won't lower prices... Because they never would...

Is accepting them outkicking their coverage on price hikes?

That is one of the craziest associations I've seen...

They haven't over saturated their prices? Perhaps not in every spot to the max... But the cracks are there...
HINT: "deluxe" resorts.

 

[jade1]

I too...fail to understand how accepting that Disney won't lower prices... Because they never would...

Is accepting them outkicking their coverage on price hikes?

That is one of the craziest associations I've seen...

They haven't over saturated their prices? Perhaps not in every spot to the max... But the cracks are there...
HINT: "deluxe" resorts.

I do not believe they will lower prices either, although the definition of lowering prices is not defined. They can offer packages for a family of 4 for any amount they want-does that mean they lowered the prices?

The bigger point is-if 11 year of price hikes lead to packed parks-who is to say they hiked them enough, or too much?

 

[jade1]

They haven't over saturated their prices? Perhaps not in every spot to the max... But the cracks are there...
HINT: "deluxe" resorts.

I think deluxe are suffering from DVC. But hard to argue with a group of guests building and maintaining the resort expansions.

Furthermore-if they want to bump up deluxe resort stays-add FP+ picks for those stays, even if only on "expansion" attractions.

Or deluxe reserves at 90 days, or deluxe has no tiers, or deluxe reserves 3 in one park and 2 in another.

 

[ThurlFan]

Back to the backfiring of FP+

My family has previously scheduled a day for AK and a Day for DHS. Because we want to ride the Safari in the morning and hit Everest, Primeval Whirl (sorry, Lockedout) Lion King show, etc. That's a good park to start the day at, especially since they've removed the incentive to stick around past 1:30 by dumping the parade. We previously have had to hit DHS first thing also, because TSMM is really one of two attractions that all of us enjoy. Now that we've been with FP+ we have figured out that we can schedule our DHS FP for evening, hit AK in the morning on the same day and purchase one less park day per trip! Woohoo!

Will the ROL and Avatar keep us from employing this strategy in the future? Don't know - we may just flip it. Do DHS early in the day and ride a few things standby, then hop over to DAK for the afternoon/evening to use our FP+

To top it all off, the demise of never expire tickets means our savings (and incentive to cut out a day of spending) is even greater than it would have been in the past.

Unintended consequences are the same thing that karma can sometimes be....

 

[jade1]

Back to the backfiring of FP+

My family has previously scheduled a day for AK and a Day for DHS. Because we want to ride the Safari in the morning and hit Everest, Primeval Whirl (sorry, Lockedout) Lion King show, etc. That's a good park to start the day at, especially since they've removed the incentive to stick around past 1:30 by dumping the parade. We previously have had to hit DHS first thing also, because TSMM is really one of two attractions that all of us enjoy. Now that we've been with FP+ we have figured out that we can schedule our DHS FP for evening, hit AK in the morning on the same day and purchase one less park day per trip! Woohoo!

Will the ROL and Avatar keep us from employing this strategy in the future? Don't know - we may just flip it. Do DHS early in the day and ride a few things standby, then hop over to DAK for the afternoon/evening to use our FP+

To top it all off, the demise of never expire tickets means our savings (and incentive to cut out a day of spending) is even greater than it would have been in the past.

Unintended consequences are the same thing that karma can sometimes be....

Yes there are unintended consequences. But look how well it worked out for you.

Others like us enjoy those types of mornings (even if last minute decisions) followed by a much improved evening (even time to hit SAB for the afternoon), will gladly add extra days.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think deluxe are suffering from DVC. But hard to argue with a group of guests building and maintaining the resort expansions.

Furthermore-if they want to bump up deluxe resort stays-add FP+ picks for those stays, even if only on "expansion" attractions.

Or deluxe reserves at 90 days, or deluxe has no tiers, or deluxe reserves 3 in one park and 2 in another.

Hmmm...and if that plan were to work... It wound require park capital investment... Because the current slate isn't gonna cut it...

So if that's the plan...I'm all in.

DVC was purchased for a variety of reasons...convenience of not worrying about paying is one - I believe...

But I would pay for a Wildeness lodge room at $150 a night in 2003...

I sure as hell won't pay $350 for the same room now.

Did DVC hurt the deluxes? Or did they hit the wall with the prices?

Not even evil greedy Mikey Eisner attempted to find the price point where the product wouldn't sell...the "line on the horizon"...

This twit and his minions seem to be desperate to find it on everything.

My next guess of hitting the sweet spot will be sitdown food prices... They're close to the limit of tolerance based on the food quality now...

Tickets will follow... As aggressive increases when 2 parks are in decline will cause a large scale revolt amongst the experience eventually...even among the east coast lemmings...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes there are unintended consequences. But look how well it worked out for you.

Others like us enjoy those types of mornings (even if last minute decisions) followed by a much improved evening (even time to hit SAB for the afternoon), will gladly add extra days.

Or they'll leak into Orlando/Florida... Which would represent a failure of the goals of the system on nearly all levels

 

[jade1]

Or they'll leak into Orlando/Florida... Which would represent a failure of the goals of the system on nearly all levels

Disagree again. It brings back so many visitors for the evenings.

Need to give credit where it is due, and HP deserve a lot of credit. No doubt it draws a lot of folks that were on the fence of a WDW/Orlando vacation. One counter to it is FP+, they are going to visit HP anyway-now they can have an evening at WDW planned ahead of time.

That's exactly what we do. No way are we staying at US when we can finish our evening at DHS or MK with FP+ and a night show. And we prefer WDW Deluxe as well.

FL Beaches? Huge draw. Now those can be a day trip from WDW with an evening in the parks planned as well. Same thing we did again.

Before wasn't much point-esp XMAS week with 100 minute waits for everything by early afternoon through the night.

Nope-I think they want you to have the choices, and that satisfaction will lead to improved trips and extended stays. Does for us.