Demand based ticket pricing

[Eoghann]

Sorry I'm not following.

Wouldn't that just mean they should not raise ticket prices simply because it is too busy? What does that have to do with it being more expensive during peak season? When you said yourself that is when the phase closings occur.

The question is: Are the parks actually so busy during the blackout dates that it is really necessary to raise prices?

If they're not actually reaching capacity (when the close the park to further visitors) then arguably the answer is no.

To be fair however, Disney doesn't want to have lots of unhappy visitors who have a park ticket but find they can't get in the park so logically they want to avoid getting too close to closing the park.

Or they could do something crazy like encouraging people to visit the three other parks they have close at hand.

 

[Eoghann]

I never said that it doesn't exist. I said that most things have price increases that outpace it. So to say that what Disney is doing is wrong because they are outpacing inflation is not correct.

Tagging it purely to inflation would be unreasonable and I think mostly people use that as a shorthand for what they actually mean. When Disney's price increases considerably outpace their cost increases (as illustrated by the increase in profit percentage rather than $ value) then their behavior becomes questionable. Yes you can trot out supply & demand but that doesn't excuse all behavior. We do for example have limited laws against price gouging so there is a societal understanding that greed should have limits. Even in cases where it is not actually illegal you can see the behavior frowned upon. Recently for example there was a lot of press around a company that hiked the price of an AIDs drug by 5000% and the reaction was overwhelmingly negative.

It's an extreme case but it illustrates that even in a free market supply & demand does not protect them from the charge of greed, nor should customers be expected to accept every increase just because "prices go up."

Or to remove Disney from the equation. If your bank suddenly announced that all fees were increasing by 30% because they plan to build some new branches in the next 5 years would you find that reasonable behavior or might you consider going to another bank?

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The question is: Are the parks actually so busy during the blackout dates that it is really necessary to raise prices?

If they're not actually reaching capacity (when the close the park to further visitors) then arguably the answer is no.

To be fair however, Disney doesn't want to have lots of unhappy visitors who have a park ticket but find they can't get in the park so logically they want to avoid getting too close to closing the park.

Or they could do something crazy like encouraging people to visit the three other parks they have close at hand.

Well we go every XMAS week and it is tough to get much done, at least headliner wise. FP+ really helped us, esp the evening hop to park.

I'm not sure its completely just a matter of even getting in the door, but how much you can get done once inside.

But if folks have a cheaper option time to visit-some will likely choose that route, similar to the skiing example.

 

[bpadair32]

Tagging it purely to inflation would be unreasonable and I think mostly people use that as a shorthand for what they actually mean. When Disney's price increases considerably outpace their cost increases (as illustrated by the increase in profit percentage rather than $ value) then their behavior becomes questionable. Yes you can trot out supply & demand but that doesn't excuse all behavior. We do for example have limited laws against price gouging so there is a societal understanding that greed should have limits. Even in cases where it is not actually illegal you can see the behavior frowned upon. Recently for example there was a lot of press around a company that hiked the price of an AIDs drug by 5000% and the reaction was overwhelmingly negative.

It's an extreme case but it illustrates that even in a free market supply & demand does not protect them from the charge of greed, nor should customers be expected to accept every increase just because "prices go up."

Or to remove Disney from the equation. If your bank suddenly announced that all fees were increasing by 30% because they plan to build some new branches in the next 5 years would you find that reasonable behavior or might you consider going to another bank?

Ive seen people discussing both value and inflation so I am not sure everyone is using inflation as short-hand. That being said, value is very subjective and hard to quantify.

Comparing it to a bank raising fees doesn't make sense. There are many, many banks. There is one WDW, less of a supply, higher demand, higher cost. We don't have to be happy about it, but that is how economics work.

Its also nowhere near being illegal or immoral. They are not pricing people out of something that they need for survival. They MAY be pricing people out of a vacation. Big world of difference there.

 

[Planogirl]

There is only one Disney but there are slews of places to vacation. Disney does have to compete with them at least somewhat.

Plus Disney is a not a need as much as some people like to think so. Maybe using a bank isn't a need either but it's closer to one than visiting a themepark. Yet I see people constantly moaning about price increases for everything you can imagine including bank fees. Another that constantly comes up is the high prices for cable or satellite. These aren't needs either but they provide us with 365 days of entertainment (IMO) compared to the paltry week or two we get from Disney.

Yes, it's at least partially a matter of perspective and many factors play into it including inflation.

 

[Eoghann]

Ive seen people discussing both value and inflation so I am not sure everyone is using inflation as short-hand. That being said, value is very subjective and hard to quantify.

Comparing it to a bank raising fees doesn't make sense. There are many, many banks. There is one WDW, less of a supply, higher demand, higher cost. We don't have to be happy about it, but that is how economics work.

Its also nowhere near being illegal or immoral. They are not pricing people out of something that they need for survival. They MAY be pricing people out of a vacation. Big world of difference there.

I'm not talking about value I'm talking about price increases that substantially exceed cost increases. Value is very subjective but the measurement of profits is not. And I didn't say it was illegal or immoral, I noted my examples were extreme for illustrative purposes. In fact their morality really isn't my problem, companies are fundamentally amoral constructions anyway. I do however say that the increases are fueled by greed and have little if anything to do with the weasel words company spokesmen are using and I say that because the measurable facts show that. It irritates me when people make excuses for them. Call it what it is. People can do that and still enjoy going to Disney. It's a company not a crazy old uncle. I don't have to make excuses for it.

Whether there's only one WDW is a matter of how tightly you interpret these things. I mean there is also a Disneyland for example not to mention Universal. People do have options and they should consider them.They may review all the options and say "Disney is still the best deal for us" but but they shouldn't just blindly accept it which is an attitude I keep seeing promoted with this "prices go up" line. I've already explained why supply and demand is not a catch all excuse for price increases.

 

[bpadair32]

I'm not talking about value I'm talking about price increases that substantially exceed cost increases. Value is very subjective but the measurement of profits is not. And I didn't say it was illegal or immoral, I noted my examples were extreme for illustrative purposes. In fact their morality really isn't my problem, companies are fundamentally amoral constructions anyway. I do however say that the increases are fueled by greed and have little if anything to do with the weasel words company spokesmen are using and I say that because the measurable facts show that. It irritates me when people make excuses for them. Call it what it is. People can do that and still enjoy going to Disney. It's a company not a crazy old uncle. I don't have to make excuses for it.

Whether there's only one WDW is a matter of how tightly you interpret these things. I mean there is also a Disneyland for example not to mention Universal. People do have options and they should consider them.They may review all the options and say "Disney is still the best deal for us" but but they shouldn't just blindly accept it which is an attitude I keep seeing promoted with this "prices go up" line. I've already explained why supply and demand is not a catch all excuse for price increases.

And I agreed that it is not a catchall excuse, but it is part of the equation, and in many cases a big part of it. I could care less what any companies profits are as long as I feel like I am getting a good value for my money. I feel that way about Disney.

 

[rteetz]

Sorry I'm not following.

Wouldn't that just mean they should not raise ticket prices simply because it is too busy? What does that have to do with it being more expensive during peak season? When you said yourself that is when the phase closings occur.

I am saying that Disney should not raise simply because it's too busy. We typically always go in July. Summer is always just busier. In July 2014 we felt crowds were not a problem, yes there were a lot of people but nothing where you couldn't move around or anything.

My question is why don't more phased closing occur if Disney claims they are getting such high attendance? There are two dates that I have seen phased closings on in the last year, 4th of July, and New Year's Eve. Other than those two days we don't see phased closings. I just don't believe that the crowds are so bad that Disney needs to raise prices to get them down.

 

[rteetz]

Or they could do something crazy like encouraging people to visit the three other parks they have close at hand.

Exactly!

The only park that ever sees a phased closing is the MK or Epcot on New Year's Eve. I have never seen such a thing at AK or DHS.

 

[beer dave]

I am saying that Disney should not raise simply because it's too busy. We typically always go in July. Summer is always just busier. In July 2014 we felt crowds were not a problem, yes there were a lot of people but nothing where you couldn't move around or anything.

My question is why don't more phased closing occur if Disney claims they are getting such high attendance? There are two dates that I have seen phased closings on in the last year, 4th of July, and New Year's Eve. Other than those two days we don't see phased closings. I just don't believe that the crowds are so bad that Disney needs to raise prices to get them down.

I don't think they are raising prices to decrease busy times-- I think they are raising prices to increase attendance on low times-- or just keep the same level of attendance during the low times with out having to offer free dinning or reduced room rates--- Raise prices for busy times alot, raise prices for slow times a little, have everyone pay for meals and all pay rack rate on rooms....... the discount is in the pass...

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think they are raising prices to decrease busy times-- I think they are raising prices to increase attendance on low times-- or just keep the same level of attendance during the low times with out having to offer free dinning or reduced room rates--- Raise prices for busy times alot, raise prices for slow times a little, have everyone pay for meals and all pay rack rate on rooms....... the discount is in the pass...

When are these low times now? I keep checking out the wait time throughout the year and it seems that there are very few low times.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think they are raising prices to decrease busy times-- I think they are raising prices to increase attendance on low times-- or just keep the same level of attendance during the low times with out having to offer free dinning or reduced room rates--- Raise prices for busy times alot, raise prices for slow times a little, have everyone pay for meals and all pay rack rate on rooms....... the discount is in the pass...

Double post.

 

[beer dave]

Double post.

In my experience the slow times are most of september, beginning and end of november, beginning of december, and most of january. I think beginning to middle of may is pretty slow too. However, it all seems to be getting busier. The slowest times are probably the times they give out free dinning.....so they are not the slowest any more.

 

[rteetz]

In my experience the slow times are most of september, beginning and end of november, beginning of december, and most of january. I think beginning to middle of may is pretty slow too. However, it all seems to be getting busier. The slowest times are probably the times they give out free dinning.....so they are not the slowest any more.

Based on touring plans data from this September it was not slow like normal.

 

[Madteaparty001]

When are these low times now? I keep checking out the wait time throughout the year and it seems that there are very few low times.

Definitely not right now, was in Magic Kingdom yesterday, it was horrific. I blame a lot of my displeasure on the sun, but it was crazy busy. We did 2 of our fastpasses, ate at Casey's and Peco's bill (food was actually pretty good but the wait time and rudeness of people was astounding), and then headed back to the hotel for the pool after giving up hope of getting anything done without being miserable. They had the parade route for Festival of Fantasy roped off for 3 hours! Is that really necessary? Hoping the rest of the week goes better...

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The blackouts are for the christmas season and spring break/easter season which are basically the two busiest times of the year but even then I don't see major capacity issues.

Sorry I'm not following.

Wouldn't that just mean they should not raise ticket prices simply because it is too busy? What does that have to do with it being more expensive during peak season? When you said yourself that is when the phase closings occur.

Well we go every XMAS week and it is tough to get much done, at least headliner wise. FP+ really helped us, esp the evening hop to park.

I'm not sure its completely just a matter of even getting in the door, but how much you can get done once inside.

But if folks have a cheaper option time to visit-some will likely choose that route, similar to the skiing example.

I am saying that Disney should not raise simply because it's too busy. We typically always go in July. Summer is always just busier. In July 2014 we felt crowds were not a problem, yes there were a lot of people but nothing where you couldn't move around or anything.

My question is why don't more phased closing occur if Disney claims they are getting such high attendance? There are two dates that I have seen phased closings on in the last year, 4th of July, and New Year's Eve. Other than those two days we don't see phased closings. I just don't believe that the crowds are so bad that Disney needs to raise prices to get them down.

Not sure your getting my point.

You have admitted the blackout weeks are much busier, and they are. Have you been those weeks?

So offering a cheaper season can change some minds on when to visit-that is all.

How does that not make sense to offer the product that way?

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Or they could do something crazy like encouraging people to visit the three other parks they have close at hand.

Exactly!

The only park that ever sees a phased closing is the MK or Epcot on New Year's Eve. I have never seen such a thing at AK or DHS.

Honestly, you actually think folks walk up to MK XMAS week, are THEN told the MK is full-and they either just stand there all day or go back to the hotel, because nobody "encouraged them" or "reminded them" there are 3 other parks?

There are signs everywhere for drivers, boats tell you, buses at the resorts will tell you. Even if you did get all the way to gate, and I know this may be hard to believe but even the Disney cm's will recommend you go get on a bus to another park.

Believe me, the other parks are packed as well, you will get in though....for now.

 

[rteetz]

Honestly, you actually think folks walk up to MK XMAS week, are THEN told the MK is full-and they either just stand there all day or go back to the hotel, because nobody "encouraged them" or "reminded them" there are 3 other parks?

There are signs everywhere for drivers, boats tell you, buses at the resorts will tell you. Even if you did get all the way to gate, and I know this may be hard to believe but even the Disney cm's will recommend you go get on a bus to another park.

Believe me, the other parks are packed as well, you will get in though....for now.

No my point is MK is the only park that gets packed on those days. MK attendance is practically double DHS and AK.

I don't think the other three parks will ever be as packed at MK is.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

No my point is MK is the only park that gets packed on those days. MK attendance is practically double DHS and AK.

I don't think the other three parks will ever be as packed at MK is.

Agree they won't, but they are packed believe me. That said, do you think guests should not have access to the MK XMAS week? MK is much busier for good reason.

And no response to the "no encouragement" to visit the other parks? Which you said is "exactly" the case?

 

[rteetz]

Agree they won't, but they are packed believe me. That said, do you think guests should not have access to the MK XMAS week?

They definitely should but I still haven't seen reports of phased closings during that time. You'd think in theory that if Disney says the parks are so crowded that we would see these things.