Another possible drowning - Disney Fantasy ******UPDATE

Discussion in 'Community Board' started by goofyintoronto, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. HeatherH

    HeatherH Earning My Ears<br><font color="darkorchid">Okay,

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  3. Tiger926

    Tiger926 DIS Veteran

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    For sure serious incidents seem rare, but the potential is still there.

    My issue is why the huge difference between cruise and resorts?

    I think that the difference in policy between the two areas is very interesting, and I wish I had more info regarding those differences.

    For instance, 2 weeks ago the main Boardwalk pool was virtually empty (we had a pool view), as it was too cold and windy to swim, yet tons of lifeguards on duty.

    I wish I knew why there is such a difference between the two?

    Tiger

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  4. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    I'm just guessing, but maybe pool size? Depth? Florida regulations? I don't know if Florida regulations would apply to a ship sailing to/from Florida ports.
     
  5. Tiger926

    Tiger926 DIS Veteran

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    I am thinking it's the regulations aspect. If they don't have to, why bother?

    Maybe someone who is a lifeguard might know about the size of pool though, as the resort main pools are very large, and that is also a legitimate reason for the difference in policy, as the cruise pools are so small, but they are seriously overcrowded and dangerous, IMHO.

    Tiger
     
  6. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    I also wonder if having the slides has anything to do with it (regulations wise).

    I can tell you the pool at the Mexico AI we stayed at last summer didn't have any lifeguards and it was HUGE (area, depth was only about 3-4'). But that is Mexico. :lmao:
     
  7. swimfly

    swimfly Mouseketeer

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    Yes, it does. Insurance companies requires an attendant (although many are not certified guards). I'm pretty sure Disney is self-insured though.
     
  8. Colleen27

    Colleen27 DIS Veteran

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    I don't think there's any regulation difference. FL rules wouldn't apply to cruise ships I don't think (country of registry determines jurisdiction IIRC) but I don't think there's any FL statute mandating lifeguards either. I've stayed at a few off-site hotels/resorts that didn't have them. If FL requires lifeguards it must pertain specifically to pool slides because I've been in some very large and deeper-than-Disney's pools that didn't have them, though they didn't have slides either.

    I'm curious now about the difference in policy too. Cost seems like the most obvious reasoning. FL has a pretty well saturated labor market and low prevailing wages. It must be far more expensive to hire an additional employee for DCL than for WDW, between wages that compensate for basically living at work and quartering the additional staff on board. Or more cynically, I wonder if there's concern that having the pool staffed would actually open up additional liability relative to overcrowding and other unsafe conditions. With a swim-at-your-own-risk policy it is up to guests to decide but if there are lifeguards on duty it seems like an argument could be made for negligence if they aren't enforcing capacity limits and safe conditions in the area.
     
  9. goofysgirl

    goofysgirl Mouseketeer

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    DD was lifeguard for DVC for five years. Pools with slide require attendants they are certified lifeguards slide ops are recreation and are not certified guards they tel. The kids when to go down the slide Pool water is guarded by the lifeguards...please do not make the lifeguard your child"s babysitter...they are watching over the pools to insure everyone"s safety.
    This is tragic and I wish nothing but the best for the child...ultimately your child is your most precious gift they are your responsibility please keep them safe
     
  10. jodifla

    jodifla WDW lover since 1972

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    I remember when OKW added a slide, some people were upset because of the extra dues that would come because they would now need lifeguards at the pool. I think that is the difference; with the slide comes the lifeguards.

    None of the quiet pools (ie, no slides) in DVC have lifeguards; and very few Florida hotel pools have lifeguards.

    I agree that lifeguards arent't he issue here. This is why they call them "accidents" and the accident could have happened even with a life guard standing a few feet away.
     
  11. princesspiglet

    princesspiglet DIS Veteran

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    It doesn't matter if there was a lifeguard or not, they are not babysitters and will never replace the eyes and ears of a parent, especially when the lifeguards have to keep watch on hundreds of kids a day!!

    My DD10 is an excellent swimmer, been swimming since she was 2 (we have our own pool), but I still watch her like a hawk!! If I have to leave the pool area for even 2 seconds I make her get out. When we are at Disney or on DCL, one of us (usually dad) is always in the pool with her and the other (me) stands guard at the pool watching her.

    You can never be too safe near water. Drowing can happen in a second.
     
  12. NotUrsula

    NotUrsula DIS Veteran

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    I wonder if there is a higher incidence of parents leaving children unattended at pools on board DCL vessels because of the emphasis that is placed on the availability of the supervised children's programs? I can easily see some parents thinking that because there is so much emphasis on DCL about being able to safely get time away from your kids that they think that it applies everywhere? (Full disclosure: I've never been on the ships, but I've read up on them. However, I don't know if there is a component that covers this in the safety drill.)

    As to children and swimming: unless my young one is in a formal class, she does not get in the water unless one of her parents or her older brother is in the water with her, within one stroke's reach at all times. (Her brother is 10 yrs older, and a certified lifeguard). My father grew up in a fishing village and swam like a dolphin. The first time that he saved someone's life he was 10 years old, and over the years he saved over a dozen people from drowning. However, sometimes his best efforts failed, and people died. As a result of those experiences he was absolutely manic about water safety and boating safety rules, and I grew up following them religiously. I've insisted on the same level of training for my own children.
     
  13. ManyMinnie

    ManyMinnie DIS Veteran

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    Have there been any updates on the boy?
     
  14. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    I'm curious... all of those who say "keep an eye on your children", does that apply to 18 year olds?
    Link
     
  15. maxiesmom

    maxiesmom The Mean Squinty Eye Works

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    Of course you can't prevent every accident from happening. But are you saying parents keeping a close eye on their kids wouldn't help?

    No matter what we do, you can't prevent accidents from happening. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
     
  16. ManyMinnie

    ManyMinnie DIS Veteran

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    There is no comparison between a 4 year old child and an 18 year old young adult.
     
  17. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    No, I'm not saying that. I'm not sure what I'm saying now. Just what you did... you can't always prevent accidents. That's why they're "accidents".
     
  18. Mkrop

    Mkrop <font color=coral>I just cant go on demand<br><fon

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    Cmon there are certain ages when we do allow people some freedom and if heaven forbid something happens than yes it is truly an accident and accidents happen even when there are people nearby, once again a true accident.

    But if there is a child who need supervision and MOST people would agree that a 4 year old needs supervision ESPECIALLY around water, than that is something that MAY have been prevented.

    It is no different than any other accident, most people let their kids ride a bike without supervision when they are 13, but most do not when the kid is 4 Accidents can happen with bike riding but as the child gets older the more freedom we give.
     
  19. Colleen27

    Colleen27 DIS Veteran

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    Frankly, I think our cultural discomfort with accidents and things outside our control lead us to look for a systemic answer to every freak occurrence. The conversation about the 13yo who drowned at Pop was ridiculously similar to the conversation on this thread - berating a lack of parenting and calling for round the clock lifeguards - so it clearly isn't just an issue of the child's age. It is the generally risk-adverse mindset of our society. No matter how old the child, the conversation automatically seems to turn to finding fault and placing blame rather than accepting/understanding that sometimes accidents just happen.

    The same common sense that tells us a 4yo needs to be supervised around water should also remind us that preschoolers are unpredictable and have a way of getting away from their parents at times. Since the parents were in the pool area and reportedly in their swimsuits when they left the ship, they probably weren't letting the kid swim without them - more likely, Dad thought the child was with Mom and Mom thought he was with Dad, or he simply slipped away in the chaos of the sail-away party and they didn't find him quickly enough.
     
  20. Seahunt

    Seahunt DIS Veteran

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    I haven't heard anything (on local news/Orlando) since this info from the Orlando Sentinel:

    Three days after a 4-year-old boy nearly drowned on a Disney cruise ship, he remains hospitalized, but officials are not releasing his condition.

    The child was reportedly pulled, unresponsive, from a swimming pool on the ship, taken by ambulance to Cape Canaveral Hospital then flown by helicopter to Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children

    A hospital spokesman Tuesday would not release the child's condition, but Disney Cruise Line spokeswoman Rena Langley confirmed that he was alive and that his parents were still in the Central Florida area.

    The incident happened while the Disney Fantasy was docked in Port Canaveral, preparing for a seven-day cruise of the Western Caribbean.

    The Port Canaveral Police Department responded and was investigating. On Tuesday, it would not release an incident report.

    The child was swimming in the "Donald pool," one of three pools on the cruise liner, when he was discovered unresponsive, Langley said.

    Disney medical personnel went to his aid then local fire-rescue personnel were summoned and took over.

    The pool is 5-foot-3-inches deep. Witnesses reported that the child's parents were not in the water with him and came running over while emergency personnel were working on their child. They nearly collapsed at what they discovered, one witness reported.

    A sign at the pool indicates it is not watched by a lifeguard and prohibits children under the age of 12 from swimming without parental supervision.

    Langley would not release the name of the child or parents and would not provide his medical condition.

    "We're continuing to assist the family in any way we can," she said.


    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...isney-fantasy-disney-cruise-line-cruise-liner

    Oh, and I did read elsewhere that the family was from Missouri, and I thought that was eerie because the boy that drowned at the POP pool was also from Missouri.

    Of course, not saying anything against Missouri, but what are the odds with all the worldwide visitors that both families would be MO. residents :worried:
     
  21. PizzieDuster

    PizzieDuster DIS Veteran

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    Someone posted on the cruise thread that the family has a public facebook page for their son. Chase Lykken. With updates. He's fighting mighty hard for his life.

    They thank the first responder and his actions when he was first pulled out of the pool.
     

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