Additional Cuts to WDW Hours

[married2grumpy]

The way I see it is people spend a lot of time planning their trips to Disney. We make PS based on Disney's published hours and timeframes. We plan our days around the hours published. Disney then changes these hours just weeks before a vacation you have planned for months. This happened to us last year and can really put you in a bind. I understand the need for shorter hours due to the economy and what not but to then keep the parks open for only those who are willing to pay for it, that's not fair. I am not a fan of e-nights and have not used them in the past. We do not go to Disney for the big ticket rides but for the overall experience. We like to go to the parks early, head back to the resort for swimming and naps and then head back when feeling refreshed. With shorter hours our relaxing vacation has now become rushed because we will not have the time to go back to the resort during the day. Maybe staying off site will become a better option now for all of us.

 

[cindyfan]

And this during Spring Break! I don't know about anyone else but I'm not ready to sit in my hotel room at 8 at night.

I'm with you!!!!! And we are going during Easter break!!!!
We wanted to take advantage of the later hours!!!!!

No, I don't want to have to pay $12 extra to be in a park that until yesterday that time was FREE!!!
I know what my options are....and I was choosing to be in the MK until 11pm!!! and MGM til 10:30 for Fantasmic. Now I will be kicked out of MGM at 9pm!!! Forced to really fight the crowds at Fantasmic!!!

As for MK, right now there are no E-nights scheduled! So I don't even have the option to pay!!!! If I did, yes, I would prefer the "controlled access"......
BUT.....they are not giving me that option!!!!!!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

I mean really, when you break it down, enights are not a whole lot different than the original concept behind the admission ticket books. Maybe there is indeed something to be learned from the past...

I just can't ride with you on this one Scoop.

First point.............................

It shouldn't be a choice between 3 hours with no crowds for $12, or 3 suffocatingly crowded hours for no additional cost (I almost said free, but that would imply you "got something" - which I don't buy as it should be included in the price of admission anyway ). If the Mk were open late and had fireworks and Spectro every night during busy times (like they used to - I know - I sound like the Baron now , but he isn't ALWAYS wrong) the park would not be so suffocatingly crowded on the few nights that later hours, FITS and Spectro are offered. By limiting these things to one or two nights Disney has created the suffocating crowds.

Second point.........................

Enights used to be a great thing for the very reason you mention. In addition to the fun you could have with your regular admission, you were given the opportunity to stay later, for a price, and enjoy rides without crowds. It was a great concept when E night was from 11 pm until 2 am. Now that it is from 7 to 10, or 8 to 11, you really are paying for something you already paid for. Why do I say already paid for? Well, admission prices are no lower now than they were when the park was open until 11 or 12. Lower admission prices and then charge me $12 for an 8 to 11 E night - now you are talking .

In the end, I too might choose a $12, 8 to 11 E night over the same time for "free" in a park so crowded with those who want to see Spectro on the one night it is offered - but it shouldn't be that way.

 

[Don Karnage]

I'm typically a trusting guy, but I just don't buy that e-nights are 'controlled access'.

Both times I tried e-nights last summer the attractions still had 40 minute waits up until the last 1/2 hour.

At first I was all for the idea of 'no crowds' but afterward... I just felt cheated. (and yes, I was stupid enough to try it twice.)

In the end I walked away convinced that my chances of having low crowds on a free night were just as good as on e-nights. In fact, I can remeber those free summer nights (til midnight back in the late 90s) as some of the best in 'the world'.

 

[raidermatt]

Hey Scoop, you really had me going with the Enight thing... then I realized that must be more ironic humor!

 

[raidermatt]

Ok, Scoop and D-R, assuming you guys were serious...

I think many of us have either forgotten, or simply never experienced, how things work when a park closes at Midnight, and the fireworks and parades are done by 10pm. You see, just like now, after the fireworks, many people leave! The crowds thin out. The lines at 11:30 are not like the lines at 8:30.

By rarely closing any later than 10pm, and ending those nights with parades and fireworks, you've been conditioned to think that the only way to get reasonable lines at night is through Enights.

They have successfully lowered your expectations, or if you never experienced the fireworks at 9/10, close at Midnight secenario, they succeeded in making you think it couldn't exist. (For me this was at DL)

And if there is a second parade at 10:30, that's even better! Many people have left already, and many who are still there gather for the parade. You can either watch the later parade without the 8-deep crowds, or you can hit the attractions.

Now THOSE are options.

And Scoop, if you want to leave, and go to PI or the BW, you still can!

If there becomes a point where people stop using it to a large extent (i.e. demand decreases a whole lot), then they should get rid of it and focus on another option that might better meet the demand.

You are missing the big picture, my friend. You can't look at demand just in the context of demand for Enights. That approach doesn't even consider how many folks are not happy at all with this new option. Sure, 1000 or 2000 people pay for some Enights. But how many don't, and aren't very happy about it? Or, how many do pay, but still don't like the idea of having to pay for what was once free?

This is the problem when you deviate from your philosophy/mission/business plan, and instead look only at market segments and revenue streams. You forget why people are visiting you in the first place. You see $12/head, and don't account for how many people got p'd off and just didn't come this year, or took shorter trips, or, at the very least, count this as another brick in their wall.

 

[lodgelady]

I have got to weigh in on this as I feel so strongly that Disney is just wrong on this one.

The Disney planning videos are sent out to market the resort as a whole, as well as to prompt early booking and ticket buying. We are encouraged to plan our vacations FAR in advance.

Disney, in this instance, is asking the consumer to assume risk that it is not willing to take on itself.
ie: I fork over a set amount of vacation dollars for a product (onsite room+admission media) for a price that may or may not be worth TO ME what I paid for them (reduced hours or parks closed entirely in the evenings due to private events) I don't know the hours of the parks or the parade schedules at the time of my booking.
It is like asking people to pay for a coke, before they will tell you how much coke is in the cup!!!

To be fair they should disclose park hours and parade times as far in advance as they will take ressies for. At least then you know when you purchase a vacation what you are buying.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Originally posted by Don Karnage
I'm typically a trusting guy, but I just don't buy that e-nights are 'controlled access'.

Both times I tried e-nights last summer the attractions still had 40 minute waits up until the last 1/2 hour...

My last experience with enights was May of 2000 (I know - a loooong time ago!). At the time the information we received stated that enights were limited to 5000 guests and you had to be a resort guest to purchase admission. As I recall, even then the line for splash mountain was 15-20 mins (heck - it takes 8 minutes to walk through that gigantic queu). Maybe things have changed since then and they now allow more than 5000 guests. Anyone have any concrete evidence on the admission numbers for enights?

 

[married2grumpy]

Part of the reason we stay on site is that we can hop on a monorail or bus and quickly get back to our resort for naps and a pool break. With small children a full day at the parks is a lot. If the hours are shortened, relaxing at the resort mid afternoon doesn't seem feasible. If that's the case, staying off site can save you a bundle. I know many people who stay on site for the same reason I do. As far as staying on site saving you travel time, big deal. Travel time is on my own time. I can still arrive at the park as soon as it opens and leave as soon as it closes. Once I'm in the parks it's time I've paid for. With shorter hours, I'm staying and getting my money's worth.

That being said, I'm sure we will still stay on site but others may choose not to if the hours remain shortened long term.

 

[YoHo]

During my trip to California last week I had occasion to spend Saturday at Disneyland. DCA closed at 9 right after the Electrical parade and Disneyland closed at 11pm with the fireworks at 9:45.
I can now finally fully appreciate Landbaron and Raidermatt's positions. If you have never expireanced having the full park open post fireworks, then you have not expireanced the joy of Disney at night. I will never again pay for an E-night after this.

Nearly everyone left after the fireworks and only a handful of people came over to DL after DCA closed. it was glorious. no extra cost. every single ride open, no lines.

Its a darn Shame that the folks in florida think they need to charge for the same thing.

 

[All Aboard]

While the parks might be closed (and, if that is your sole purpose for going to WDW then this won't help), but send me a PM and I'll be glad to share with you numerous non-park but very magical things you can do at WDW after 8pm other than sitting in your hotel room.

Scoop, you've been successfully molded into a "today's WDW" kinda guy. You've posted many times about how much you enjoy the non-park offerings and how big a part of your WDW experience they are. The trouble is, that I gotta believe that you are in the minority on this one. I have to believe that if you sum up the total guests going to the Boardwalk, PI, DTD and the mini-golfs, you'd still have a small fraction of the total guests attending just one of the four theme parks. Despite your personal preference, the vast majority of the WDW travelling public is there for the theme parks. It's the parks that justify the thousands of dollars spent on the vacation. When the park time gets reduced, the value for most of us gets reduced.

 

[raidermatt]

Just to set the "irony" record straight... I caught the humor in the first paragraph of your first post, Scoop, but did miss it in the second paragraph (give Eisner credit when hours increase...)

My post about your enight statements being ironic, was itself, ironic. In other words, while I think you are out of your mind on this one , I did know you were serious.

Heck, I'd love to see Disney build an entire controlled access park, as SeaWorld did with Discovery Cove.

That's another matter, and that might be a fine idea. The problem comes when they reduce operating hours from an existing park to accomplish this.

 

[airlarry!]

I am part of the problem. I admit. Because I've done E*night twice!

The first time in '99 when the park was open with E*night until 1 or 2 in the morning. We enjoyed just walking around and seeing the sights, but by the end, we realized that there were barely any eateries open and since only 8 or so rides were open, it did not have the same feel as those late, late nights in the parks I remember from earlier vacations.

The last time was in '01, and it was early. It rained the entire time, which kept people from wandering around enjoying the nighttime ambience and in line instead. Splash and Big Thunder and maybe the astrojets? were shut down because of the lightning. Everybody piled into Buzz and Space. It was soooo crowded.

Neither time was a sell-out, because we easily bought our bands right before the deadline.

I thought it was a great idea, just like M. Don said, when they substituted late hours for exclusivity. I didn't realize that they were using me as the guinea pig for the "How Much Can We Make Them Pay for Exclusivity" experiment.

I thought Matt and DK's arguments were well founded. But I see one point for Scoop: I don't mind creative ways to make the experience different, like Halloween nights and Christmas nights. But to blatantly close the parks early (and in the last three or four years they're closing ALL the parks early) forcing someone to pay extra to stay out after 8 pm is...is...Ei$ner at his best.

 

[raidermatt]

Huh? Whose looking at market segments and revenue streams?

Disney.

Listen, I have no problem with Disney abolishing enights if that is what the demand warrants. I do have a problem with the idea that Disney should leave a park open while it has very few people actually remaining in the park just to service those few.

If there are a couple thousand folks willing to pay $12 to stay for 8 attractions, there must be quite a few more who would like to stay for the whole park, without paying the extra $12.

There is no way that Disney is closing the parks 2-3 hours earlier, then charging $12 for 8 attractions because its what the guests demand.

There is ENOUGH demand for Enights to create a lovely little revenue stream, while reducing costs by closing most of the park earlier. This is not about thousands of guests asking that Disney close earlier and instead institute Enights.

There remains demand for Enights because it is a better option for many when compared to leaving the park. That does NOT mean it is the best or preferred option for many MORE guests when compared to a later overall closing time.

This is the kind of stuff that shows up in overall attendance and booking figures, and of course the company says the trouble here is entirely due to outside forces. As you know, I do not agree, and think things like earlier closings are a factor in Disney's park troubles.

 

[DisneyKidds]

My post about your enight statements being ironic, was itself, ironic. In other words, while I think you are out of your mind on this one , I did know you were serious.

OK - this one sent me from headache to migraine .

I can now finally fully appreciate Landbaron and Raidermatt's positions. If you have never expireanced having the full park open post fireworks, then you have not expireanced the joy of Disney at night.

I'm in between you guys on this one. I full well know the glory of what a WDW vacation was in the past. Yeah, I miss what used to be. The days of doing the "fish up stream" bit after arriving at the MK after the close of Epcot and the hordes were streaming out of the MK, subsequently riding Splash multiple times without getting off. However, while not being able to do that any longer is unfortunate, I agree with Scoop on the many wonderful things there are to do outside the park. I also agree with Matt that most WDW guests probably aren't doig them.

There - I agreed with everybody! How often can you do that? From a very personal perspective this all works well for me. Not as a matter of conditioning, not as a matter of lowered expectations, not as a matter of ignorance - but that is niether here nor there .

 

[raidermatt]

I have to believe that if you sum up the total guests going to the Boardwalk, PI, DTD and the mini-golfs, you'd still have a small fraction of the total guests attending just one of the four theme parks.

I'm with gcurling on this... it seems obvious to me, but its not too hard to find evidence either.

Campfires, Fantasia Gardens, the Boardwalk, Adventurers' Club, all very nice. But are they pulling anything close to even AK's 6 or 7 million guests per year? Further, could they charge $50 per day and draw 6 or 7 millions guests?

Look at the planning video Disney sends out. Watch their commercials. Watch the souvenir video they sell in the parks.

There's nothing wrong with the "other things" in the World, and there's nothing wrong with anyone finding these the most enjoyable parts of their vacation. But its clearly not what the average guest values most. It might be true that DVC'ers are more likely to spend a higher percentage of their time on the "other stuff", but I know I wouldn't want to be a DVC salesperson if I had to sell those units without the parks being there.

 

[raidermatt]

OK - this one sent me from headache to migraine

My work is done.

 

[mudhen]

For me, it's just sad that the company feels it
needs to nickle and dime the themepark guest to death (I consider shortened hours and e-ride nights
nickle and diming) because they need to shore up
the bottom line of other failures within the corporation (insert ABC and that airline thing they
tried).

I too have experienced the Disney that was, and may never be again (sorry for the MGM pun). I'm a visitor during peak summer hours due to my work schedule, the Magic Kingdom at night, less crowded,
with 2 parades and fireworks on a nightly basis,
well, it doesn't get much better in terms of vacations for me.

The question I have is, does anyone think Disney will ever get back to the way it was(in terms of hours and cutbacks), or has the corporation Disney
dumbed down the guests enough for so long that we,
the tourist, will be happy and "lucky" to get whatever they feel like providing, and then disguise that by saying "this is what the guests want according to our research and surveys"?

 

[manning]

It was a great concept when E night was from 11 pm until 2 am. Now that it is from 7 to 10, or 8 to 11, you really are paying for something you already paid for.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Despite popular belief, just because I don't agree with some on many (ok - most ) points doesn't mean I don't "get it" .

Beware, however. It won't be long until someone ducks out of their vehicle to point out that my post proves the contrary, that my belief in the "good E night concept from 11 to 2" is proof that I don't "get it". As will be said.......................the E night starting at 11 was a very bad thing, as it was just a ploy to distract us from the fact that the MK wasn't open until midnight! Ha! Disney dupes us again!

But not really........................I even get that point that someone will soon make. However, even if the concept was designed to hide the fact that they chipped away an hour, they gave us something we never had before - Splash, Space or your fave E ticket at 2 am on a day that was not Easter or New Years. For some reason I think we have had that discussion before .

Will we ever get back there? I really don't know.