Came across this article from an average guest

mesaboy2 · Sep 3, 2015

Robo said:
!

Personally I found the "beyond user friendly" pretty hilarious.

JoshuaShaw · Sep 3, 2015

grimley1968 said:
Sort of like a fungus.

I prefer the term "FP Sprinter/Hoarder/Fighter" because I didn't run to the park, I sprinted; I hoarded legacy FP's all day, just because I could; and I was a proud member of the Fight for Legacy FP Club (though I've been told I'm not supposed to talk about that).

I wear a necklace made from all the teeth I punched out of little kids' faces as I stampeded my way towards FP distribution. Their pain gives me strength.

MrInfinity · Sep 3, 2015

ArwenMarie said:
If the problem was that not enough people were using the old paper FP, then Disney could have easily put more effort into educating people to use it more. Look at how much they have spent on teaching people about FP+. Then everyone could have gotten 3 or whatever the magic number is, but we still could have preserved the idea that each day in the parks is a clean slate. But spreading the FPs around wasn't the main goal, because that goal could have been achieved much more quickly and cheaply.

I agree with you here, they could have done this. A good marketing campaign to push the old system would have done that. But FP+ is doing all that, and moving it up to the information age. Really paper tickets? How long do you think that would last. Paper printers are about the least economical thing ever. They are mechanical, they break down, they consume resources, and they generate trash. We don't even get a paper ticket at the movies any more. One of the simplest down-home past times, a trip to the movie is bought much like a FastPass. How can I possibly know what I'll want to watch in 3 days, let alone pick a chair I'll want to sit in?

The paper printers cannot be monetized, they cannot be leveraged, they cannot be changed w a few keystrokes by their admins, and they simply did not appeal to most guests. FP+ is right there on your phone. You can mock the user friendliness of it all you like... but it *is* more user friendly. Everyone is using them now. There's no denying this.

FP+ was an inevitable evolution.

JimmyV · Sep 3, 2015

MrInfinity said:
Jimmy, I think we all know the writer of that article is not an actual vacationer / relaxed traveler / distraught-and-being-forced-to-plan guest. It's pretty clear that article was written to generate a rise in people, while taking shots at FP+ and Disney, which is exactly what it did. It drove clicks to Forbes.

MrInfinity said:
5) Then he knows exactly the 30 days and 60 days thing. Why? A casual guest going to WDW would see 60 days. They would never learn about 30 days for non-guests.

Well, as a journalist for Forbes, I assume that he did a modicum of research before attacking his keyboard. Do a Google search for "How Does Fast Pass Plus [or FP+] Work" and the first item that comes up is the official site from Disney. Skip that one. The second one that comes up is:
http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/fastpass

I think it would be insulting to think that a journalist from Forbes did not read that article, or something similar, (or many things similar) before publishing his musings. And the 60/30 thing is pretty front-and-center.

Mikie said:
You write a counter-point to each of my statements, but I think we're in perfect agreement.

Got it. I think your wording led me a bit astray, as did my reading comprehension skills.

JoshuaShaw · Sep 3, 2015

MrInfinity said:
I agree with you here, they could have done this. A good marketing campaign to push the old system would have done that. But FP+ is doing all that, and moving it up to the information age. Really paper tickets? How long do you think that would last.

To be fair, they could have implemented a digital transaction with the legacy system.

Maxpowers · Sep 3, 2015

i agree and disagree with this article. While I did find myself running from spot to spot, I really enjoyed all the planing that went into it. In some ways it did make things easy when I got there, but in other way it did not. Also, I found out that it's okay to miss a FP. If you're doing something fun and enjoying it then who cares if you miss a FP.

lugnut33 · Sep 3, 2015

BuckeyeBama said:
LOL - Whatever, dude.

Each of us has to create our own moral compass. For me - if a company tells me that I get 3 FP+ per ticket and I am willing to buy extra tickets, I have no problem telling my kids that we can afford extra tickets, so we get extra FP+. No guilt at all.

I completely agree because at some point Disney will be monetizing extra fast passes. What you're doing is no different.

maxiesmom · Sep 3, 2015

JoshuaShaw said:
To be fair, they could have implemented a digital transaction with the legacy system.

True. But I think the bonus people had of collecting FPs throughout the day and then using them up would have been lost anyway.

ArwenMarie · Sep 3, 2015

MrInfinity said:
I agree with you here, they could have done this. A good marketing campaign to push the old system would have done that. But FP+ is doing all that, and moving it up to the information age. Really paper tickets? How long do you think that would last. Paper printers are about the least economical thing ever. They are mechanical, they break down, they consume resources, and they generate trash. We don't even get a paper ticket at the movies any more. One of the simplest down-home past times, a trip to the movie is bought much like a FastPass. How can I possibly know what I'll want to watch in 3 days, let alone pick a chair I'll want to sit in?

The paper printers cannot be monetized, they cannot be leveraged, they cannot be changed w a few keystrokes by their admins, and they simply did not appeal to most guests. FP+ is right there on your phone. You can mock the user friendliness of it all you like... but it *is* more user friendly. Everyone is using them now. There's no denying this.

FP+ was an inevitable evolution.

I'm not mocking the "user-friendliness" of the system although I don't find it the process as a whole to be that user-friendly. But if the goal was to spread FPs around to more people, they could have easily done that with the old paper system with more promotional material like they did with FPP. There were other goals that drove this, that's all. But I think the proof will be whether or not they put it in CA, that is how we will know whether the company regards it as a success or not.

Jennytoon · Sep 3, 2015

maxiesmom said:
True. But I think the bonus people had of collecting FPs throughout the day and then using them up would have been lost anyway.

Heck, a big chunk of that bonus was gone as soon as they started enforcing the return times.

GaryDis · Sep 3, 2015

ArwenMarie said:
If the problem was that not enough people were using the old paper FP, then Disney could have easily put more effort into educating people to use it more. Look at how much they have spent on teaching people about FP+.

Don't underestimate the role that the technology plays in getting people to use things. It's more than simply educating people about it. I see a ton of people, typically Millennials, who get really annoyed when they learn the only way to pay their municipal auto excise tax is by check, money order or cash.

Given a choice between booking on your home computer before leaving on vacation versus walking (sprinting, running) to the ride, getting a ticket (or even an electronic FP), and then having to return to the same ride an hour later, you're inherently going to get more participation with the former method than the latter, no matter how much education is done.

JoshuaShaw · Sep 3, 2015

GaryDis said:
Given a choice between booking on your home computer before leaving on vacation versus walking (sprinting, running) to the ride, getting a ticket (or even an electronic FP), and then having to return to the same ride an hour later, you're inherently going to get more participation with the former method than the latter, no matter how much education is done.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. As I suggested earlier, Legacy FP could have a paperless implementation. In fact, I don't think that option is entirely off the table, should Disney ever decide that FP+ isn't worth pursuing anymore.

JimmyV · Sep 3, 2015

GaryDis said:
Don't underestimate the role that the technology plays in getting people to use things. It's more than simply educating people about it. I see a ton of people, typically Millennials, who get really annoyed when they learn the only way to pay their municipal auto excise tax is by check, money order or cash.

Given a choice between booking on your home computer before leaving on vacation versus walking (sprinting, running) to the ride, getting a ticket (or even an electronic FP), and then having to return to the same ride an hour later, you're inherently going to get more participation with the former method than the latter, no matter how much education is done.

So if Disney was smart, they would make FP access exclusive to the app, and they would sell the FPs using PayPal, Apple Pay or Bitcoin as the only viable currency. They would have FP usage up to 95% in no time and a whole lot of added profit to boot!

GaryDis · Sep 3, 2015

JoshuaShaw said:
It doesn't have to be one or the other. As I suggested earlier, Legacy FP could have a paperless implementation. In fact, I don't think that option is entirely off the table, should Disney ever decide that FP+ isn't worth pursuing anymore.

Yes, it does. The distinction isn't just paper vs paperless. It's sign up at home vs sign up in the park. Once you've chosen to allow sign up at home, you've at best taken a huge bite out of the FPs available at the park for the E-rides, and that's only if they hold some back for the RD crowd - which isn't a horrible idea.

There's no way to allow significant pre-booking and have the same experience with day of entry availability that people had with legacy.

JoshuaShaw · Sep 3, 2015

GaryDis said:
Yes, it does. The distinction isn't just paper vs paperless. It's sign up at home vs sign up in the park. Once you've chosen to allow sign up at home, you've at best taken a huge bite out of the FPs available at the park for the E-rides, and that's only if they hold some back for the RD crowd - which isn't a horrible idea.

There's no way to allow significant pre-booking and have the same experience with day of entry availability that people had with legacy.

I may have been too vague. You were saying that guests are increasingly going to prefer to use technology instead of physically picking up paper Fastpasses (or such was my understanding). They could still implement a system that relies on digital distribution, rather than paper, that does not rely on advanced booking. When you acquire the Fastpass is irrelevant to how you do it.

summerw · Sep 3, 2015

JimmyV said:
I think it boils down to Disney saying:

We need to start utilizing "big data" more

We need to employ a system that would allow us to better predict where are guest are going to be at any given time

We need to employ a system that would allow us to re-direct guests on a moment's notice if we want

We need to do something about upping the usage of Fast Pass.

And FP+ is what they came up with. I agree that fixing the 4th bullet point could have been done many other ways. And they probably could have done it independent of trying to address the first three bullet points. But they opted to attack all four simultaneously.

I agree.

edited so as not to join the debate.

Planogirl · Sep 3, 2015

JoshuaShaw said:

Love that!

I've just learned that I ran and hoarded. I never knew....

EmmabaRose · Sep 3, 2015

I do understand the gripes of Disney "vets" over FP+ etc. I really do. I can see how having to entirely overhaul your strategies must really suck. But, as someone from the UK, I only get out to WDW once every few years, and I'm in favour of the new system.

I'm currently in the early stages of planning a trip for 6 adults for next year. The thing I am dreading most is having to explain the reservation system to four adults in their 40's and 50's who don't quite understand that this ins't the WDW of the 1980's that they remember. I already tried explaining magicbands to my father who after 10 minutes only wanted to know if he had to wear it all the time..... *long sigh* XD Then there's my mother who won't touch thrill rides with a barge pole so we have to factor that into our choices.... it's gonna be a long process. XD But if I can convince them to let me handle it we shouldn't screw it up too badly. I hope.

My only other whinge is the advantage that onsite guests have over offsite, since we haven't yet decided which option is going to work best for us (a friend of mine has a villa out there so it could go either way. It kind of irks me that we might miss out on some things (Translation: I will miss out on meeting Anna and Elsa. Yes I'm 23. Judge me all you want.

)

BUT despite all that, this trip has been a long time coming, and there are things that are a priority for our group. Knowing that we'll have those experiences locked down before we leave takes so much stress out of the actual holiday IMO that it makes it worth potentially waking up at 5am my time to get it done. And I am NOT a morning person.

GaryDis · Sep 3, 2015

JoshuaShaw said:
I may have been too vague. You were saying that guests are increasingly going to prefer to use technology instead of physically picking up paper Fastpasses (or such was my understanding). They could still implement a system that relies on digital distribution, rather than paper, that does not rely on advanced booking. When you acquire the Fastpass is irrelevant to how you do it.

It's not the technology per se. It's the effective use of technology. It's the ability to do things on the web, from home, in your PJs, at your leisure versus having to do it at a specific location, in person, within a specific time frame that takes from doing other things in the park.

The people who are complaining about having to write a check for local taxes aren't complaining because it's paper versus plastic. They're complaining because they no longer stock envelopes, paper checks, or stamps, and need to physically move their carcasses to get to the post office or town hall.

Eeyore's Girl · Sep 3, 2015

I understand a newbie's point of view if they don't know the ins and outs of what goes into preparing for a WDW vacation. For me, the only thing more fun than planning a WDW trip is the trip itself.

Came across this article from an average guest

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