5th Ship

[steveyjc81]

Does anyone else think its strange that Disney hasn't a fifth ship on the way? They are obviously very good at what they do, the can pack all the ships and they are making plenty of money. Cant fathom why they wouldn't build more ships.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

I think I read or heard somewhere that there is a backlog of ships to be built at the shipyard Disney uses. So even if they are planning another ship, they would need to wait for the other lines currently ahead of them in line. I could be misremembering, though.

 

[truck1]

When the Fantasy debuted, Bob Iger was on the Inaugural. From his lips, he basically said that they were not planning on building any new ships, since the company as a whole had dumped in the neighborhood of 10 billion on various projects, including over a billion on each Dream class ship at the time. So they were going to sit back and evaluate how the changes and the line as a whole was doing, and make some money back.

With that said, the back log really isn't holding DCL back. They would take a number in line. Its like that at any yard at the moment. The biggies, Carnival, RCL, and NCL all have at least 1 ship per year for the next 5 or so. What is is a commitment to say, build me a ship. They can go to any yard and build. They don't have to go back to MW. They could go back to Fincantieri, or got to ATX. At the moment, I haven't heard anything that resembles that DCL is preparing for a new ship(s). However, there was a small rumor that DCL was planning on announcing sometime next year a new class of ships.

 

[Flossbolna]

They don't have to go back to MW. They could go back to Fincantieri, or got to ATX.

Well, if you mean STX, this is now Meyer Werft Turku. (ETA: well, at least part of it, other parts were bought by Fincantieri...)

My father was at Meyer Werft just a week ago on a guided tour and they said that for all three of their shipyards (Papenburg, where the Dream and Fantasy were built, Bremen, where they mainly build river cruise ships, and Turku, the former STX, where they built the Allure and the Oasis of the Seas) they have order books filled up for delivery up until 2020.

However, on the Meyer Werft publications it clearly states that DCL got an option for two more ships when they ordered the Dream and the Fantasy. Who knows what the status of these options is currently.

 

[DISNEY FANTASY]

Yes they had the option of two more and would go back to MW the fall of the Euro may make sense to agree now. They wanted the money for the MK Fantasykand development but then they can look at new ships. As posted it could be five years if they announce it now. I think we will hear something in the near future, maybe two mid size ships between the size of the classics and the newer buses.

 

[steveyjc81]

Well, I for one would be very interested to see what they will do. I love the product they offer. Yes, its expensive, but I for one believe its worth it.

 

[truck1]

Well, if you mean STX, this is now Meyer Werft Turku. (ETA: well, at least part of it, other parts were bought by Fincantieri...)

My father was at Meyer Werft just a week ago on a guided tour and they said that for all three of their shipyards (Papenburg, where the Dream and Fantasy were built, Bremen, where they mainly build river cruise ships, and Turku, the former STX, where they built the Allure and the Oasis of the Seas) they have order books filled up for delivery up until 2020.

However, on the Meyer Werft publications it clearly states that DCL got an option for two more ships when they ordered the Dream and the Fantasy. Who knows what the status of these options is currently.

That might be it. For some reason I thought it was ATX. It was the same yard that built the Queen Mary II in France. To be honest Ive lost track of what yards were bought out by who and who changed what name. I know that the new Oasis class ship is not being built in Finland, it somewhere else since the Fins didn't agree to the terms of financing.

DCL had an option for more ships, but they never took the option. They usually have a specific time frame for options, usually around a year or so, so that option most likely expired.

Unless DCL has been quietly working on the next gen ships, 2020 would be about right for a build time including announcement.

 

[truck1]

Yes they had the option of two more and would go back to MW the fall of the Euro may make sense to agree now. They wanted the money for the MK Fantasykand development but then they can look at new ships. As posted it could be five years if they announce it now. I think we will hear something in the near future, maybe two mid size ships between the size of the classics and the newer buses.

I was in the room when the question came up. Bob Iger slipped into the room unannounced. Joe Lanzisero ( I think that's how you spell his name) was doing a presentation on the development and subsequent build on the Dream class. He made the mistake of asking for questions. First question was about new ships. Joe kind of tap danced around the question, and Bob got a mike. He basically said no new ships. At that point, they had spent 1.2 billion on each Dream class ship, like 4-5 billion on Pixar, a few more billion on upgrades in all of the parks. His exact words were they wanted to make money back.

After the presentation, Joe didn't get out of the room fast enough, and was backed in to a literal corner. I asked specifically about the origins of the Dream class. Basically what I got was this since I know there was an unannounced class in between. Was the Dream class the previous class now the Dream class or something new.

Back in early 2001, DCL had put out a memo internally to its crew. Basically in Disneyeese, it said new ships, bigger then the Magic class etc etc etc. They were quietly canceled prior to the public announcement due to 911 among other things.
Flash forward to 2007 ( I think) DCL announces the Dream class.

This was Joes answer:
There was an unannounced class that would have fit between the Dream and Magic class ships. They basically took the best features of the Magic class, the best of the unbuilt class and added a few new things, and here comes the Dream class.

So my understanding is that the physical plans exist for the ships, but will DCL dust them off and clean them up to modern standards, (IE SOLAS, IMO etc) and add things to replace what went to the Dream class, or will they start from scratch.

The other thing that has got me thinking, was Joe tap dancing around the new ship question. If DCL really didn't plan on exercising the add on option, why tap dance around it. It should have been an easy flat out no. I think that's what got Bobs attention and asked for a mike.

 

[Flossbolna]

The other thing that has got me thinking, was Joe tap dancing around the new ship question. If DCL really didn't plan on exercising the add on option, why tap dance around it. It should have been an easy flat out no. I think that's what got Bobs attention and asked for a mike.

I think there is a difference between the official line and the unofficial line. And that is the difference between Joe and Bob in your scenario. One might take note that the wording of those things is often so vague that it mainly tells you that as of this day there is no contract to build a ship, but if they signed a contract tomorrow, the statement that you heard today would still be true. I am pretty sure these corporate types know exactly how to give an answer that appears to tell you something while it is still so vague that it does not say anything.

I guess we will know when they finally announce a new ship. But personally I would not be surprised if it is sooner than later.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

However, on the Meyer Werft publications it clearly states that DCL got an option for two more ships when they ordered the Dream and the Fantasy. Who knows what the status of these options is currently.

I think that's pretty common to put things like that into contracts though. I know here the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) has an order for 204 low floor streetcars and there's an option for 60 more they can add on after the first 100 or so are delivered depending on there need.

 

[truck1]

I think there is a difference between the official line and the unofficial line. And that is the difference between Joe and Bob in your scenario. One might take note that the wording of those things is often so vague that it mainly tells you that as of this day there is no contract to build a ship, but if they signed a contract tomorrow, the statement that you heard today would still be true. I am pretty sure these corporate types know exactly how to give an answer that appears to tell you something while it is still so vague that it does not say anything.

I guess we will know when they finally announce a new ship. But personally I would not be surprised if it is sooner than later.

If it were an one else beside Joe, Id wouldn't have thought twice. But since Joe was the one that did all of the drawings and mock ups for all of the spaces on the Dream class, it got me thinking. If anyone were in the know it would be him.

With that said, Im pretty sure the option for 2 add ons are expired, however I did see an interesting rumor that said to expect a new ship announcement next year.

 

[wdrl]

Whenever the subject of a fifth DCL ship comes up, I always wonder "Where would Disney put it?" New York? Galveston? The West Coast? Would Disney want to place yet another ship in Port Canaveral/Miami and try to fill another 52 weeks of Bahamas/Caribbean itineraries every year? In the last few years, other cruise lines, including Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, and Celebrity, have increased capacity with larger ships in the Caribbean/Bahamas market. The result has been that the market is becoming more competitive and profit margins are getting tighter.

Unlike a cruise line like Princess or Celebrity that can expand into more exotic markets like the Far East, South America, and Australia, DCL's fan base doesn't seem to travel well outside U.S. ports. Could DCL fill a 4,000 passenger ship with 10- to 14-day itineraries operating year round out of Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Sydney?

I see a greater possibility that DCL will bring in a new ship into its fleet, but then retire the Magic or Wonder. Those ships are 17 years old already, and would be 20 years old, or more, by the time a new ship is ready to be launched. New ships have new technologies and designs that make them more fuel efficient and cheaper to operate than ships built years ago.

 

[MelSpees]

Whenever the subject of a fifth DCL ship comes up, I always wonder "Where would Disney put it?" New York? Galveston? The West Coast? Would Disney want to place yet another ship in Port Canaveral/Miami and try to fill another 52 weeks of Bahamas/Caribbean itineraries every year? In the last few years, other cruise lines, including Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, and Celebrity, have increased capacity with larger ships in the Caribbean/Bahamas market. The result has been that the market is becoming more competitive and profit margins are getting tighter.

Unlike a cruise line like Princess or Celebrity that can expand into more exotic markets like the Far East, South America, and Australia, DCL's fan base doesn't seem to travel well outside U.S. ports. Could DCL fill a 4,000 passenger ship with 10- to 14-day itineraries operating year round out of Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Sydney?

I see a greater possibility that DCL will bring in a new ship into its fleet, but then retire the Magic or Wonder. Those ships are 17 years old already, and would be 20 years old, or more, by the time a new ship is ready to be launched. New ships have new technologies and designs that make them more fuel efficient and cheaper to operate than ships built years ago.

I'm not sure why you think DCL's fan base wouldn't want to travel elsewhere. I would love for them to have more cruises from the West Coast. Australia and New Zealand would be awesome, too. I think if given the opportunity there could be a good business elsewhere. Everything seems to be so east coast biased that the west isn't given a chance. It would need more advertising to let people know about it, but it could work IMO.

 

[perditax]

This week's cruise radio podcast mentioned the fifth ship rumor, including the thing about it being sized down from Dream class, but I can't remember the context.

 

[Bella29]

I would love to see a new ship with more options on deck for active teens, and more Hawaii and 10 day Southern Caribbean itineraries! A smaller capacity than the Dream class is our preference as well.

 

[Pens Fan]

Whenever the subject of a fifth DCL ship comes up, I always wonder "Where would Disney put it?" New York? Galveston? The West Coast? Would Disney want to place yet another ship in Port Canaveral/Miami and try to fill another 52 weeks of Bahamas/Caribbean itineraries every year? In the last few years, other cruise lines, including Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, and Celebrity, have increased capacity with larger ships in the Caribbean/Bahamas market. The result has been that the market is becoming more competitive and profit margins are getting tighter.

Unlike a cruise line like Princess or Celebrity that can expand into more exotic markets like the Far East, South America, and Australia, DCL's fan base doesn't seem to travel well outside U.S. ports. Could DCL fill a 4,000 passenger ship with 10- to 14-day itineraries operating year round out of Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Sydney?

I see a greater possibility that DCL will bring in a new ship into its fleet, but then retire the Magic or Wonder. Those ships are 17 years old already, and would be 20 years old, or more, by the time a new ship is ready to be launched. New ships have new technologies and designs that make them more fuel efficient and cheaper to operate than ships built years ago.

Have you seen the prices DCL is getting for their European cruises??? Trust me, not everyone wants to sail to the Bahamas or Caribbean and Castaway Cay. I think you are selling Disney fans short. A lot of us have more adventurous vacation plans. (Not to mention the Disney fans that live outside of the U.S.) We can't wait for a 5th ship and new itineraries.

 

[wdrl]

I'm not sure why you think DCL's fan base wouldn't want to travel elsewhere. I would love for them to have more cruises from the West Coast. Australia and New Zealand would be awesome, too. I think if given the opportunity there could be a good business elsewhere. Everything seems to be so east coast biased that the west isn't given a chance. It would need more advertising to let people know about it, but it could work IMO.

Have you seen the prices DCL is getting for their European cruises??? Trust me, not everyone wants to sail to the Bahamas or Caribbean and Castaway Cay. I think you are selling Disney fans short. A lot of us have more adventurous vacation plans. (Not to mention the Disney fans that live outside of the U.S.) We can't wait for a 5th ship and new itineraries.

I totally agree that there are people who would love to cruise with DCL on more exotic itineraries. I would love to see DCL do a 25-day cruise that hits Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Tokyo and ends up in Hawaii. However, in the 17 years DCL has been in operation it has demonstrated a reluctance to venture too far from its Florida base. I suspect that DCL's management doesn't believe it can fill a 3,000 or 4,000 passenger ship 52 weeks out of the year if offers a steady diet of 10 to 20 day itineraries in foreign locales.

I also agree that DCL charges top dollar for its European cruises. Its European cruises are significantly more expensive than comparable cruises on RCCL, Princess, or Celebrity. However, once again I suspect that DCL management doesn't think the market can support two ships in Europe at the same time. Although a lot of us would like it if one ship offered Northern Europe itineraries while another DCL ship offered Mediterranean itineraries, I think DCL management is content with having just one ship that can demand very high tariffs.

I've wondered why DCL hasn't home ported the Wonder in Los Angeles. It could offer seasonal itineraries to Mexico, Alaska, Coastal cruises, and Hawaii, plus do land/sea packages with Disneyland. But, its yet to happen. Of course, what I know about running a cruise line couldn't fill a thimble, so I'm sure DCL management has its reasons.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

When DCL first brought the Wonder to the west coast, she was intended to be year around, Alaska in the summer and Mexico in the Winter and coastal west US coast and Hawaii cruises on occasion.

The Gangs and crime issues in Mexico and the west coast of central America and the recession emptied the ships (along with all the other lines). So they started bringing her back east in the winter.

To the FUTURE!

I would expect 2 new vessels around 2018/2019. just my guess and rumors. I believe the Dream and Fantasy will take over the Med and Alaska trade. The Magic and Wonder will still have easily 5 to 10 years of prime sailing still in those classy ladies, but I believe you will see them going to the far east, Australia and maybe round he world cruising.

While I am on the soap box, I will say I believe the new vessels will still be following the design of the great liners like the others, size.........between the Classic and Dream class. I think you will see more specially restaurants.

Time will tell what happens!

AKK

 

[Ofinn]

Whenever the subject of a fifth DCL ship comes up, I always wonder "Where would Disney put it?" New York? Galveston? The West Coast? Would Disney want to place yet another ship in Port Canaveral/Miami and try to fill another 52 weeks of Bahamas/Caribbean itineraries every year? In the last few years, other cruise lines, including Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, and Celebrity, have increased capacity with larger ships in the Caribbean/Bahamas market. The result has been that the market is becoming more competitive and profit margins are getting tighter.

Unlike a cruise line like Princess or Celebrity that can expand into more exotic markets like the Far East, South America, and Australia, DCL's fan base doesn't seem to travel well outside U.S. ports. Could DCL fill a 4,000 passenger ship with 10- to 14-day itineraries operating year round out of Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Sydney?

I see a greater possibility that DCL will bring in a new ship into its fleet, but then retire the Magic or Wonder. Those ships are 17 years old already, and would be 20 years old, or more, by the time a new ship is ready to be launched. New ships have new technologies and designs that make them more fuel efficient and cheaper to operate than ships built years ago.

I think they could fill any route if they didn't price it 3 times higher than other cruise lines doing the same route. Disney is very popular in Asia and around the globe but their prices are not within most people's budget.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I still hold in the back of my mind the wish that DCL would buy the S/S United States and rebuild her into service. It is never likely to happen, but it would be wonderful!


(Yes Truck 1, I know you hate the idea Buddy!)

AKK