Is anyone else hugely entertained by the FP+ tier system test?

[JimS4210]

Those that say spending more on a Deluxe only entitles us to the room and the hotel amenities better stop using 180+10 ADR, or Disney Transportation , or Extra Magic Hours. After all off-site guest pay the same amount for park admission but can't do EMH. Everyone pays the same for ticket prices right? So no perks for staying on-site no matter the level. If you stay Value your paying for that room and hotel you should have no other perks because your only paying for the hotel. See how the whole "everyone" pays the same for park admission falls apart because Disney already shows they wish to give "perks" to those that spend more.

Exactly. Disney already doesn't play by the same rules with all of its guests. There are already benefits to staying onsite vs. offsite when it comes to EMH or dinner reservations within the parks. So the argument that "We pay the same for park admission so we should get treated exactly the same" doesn't work. I think this is the next logical step and I hope Disney considers this.

Jim

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

This exactly.

If you prefer offsite I can see how this would be bothersome, however the list above does lead one to seriously wonder why FP+ advantages wouldn't be extended to on-site guests over those that don't stay on property (tiered or otherwise). Of course, this assumes some version of FP+ will be offered to offsite guests also eventually.

Disney is promoting an "experience" not just a hotel stay or park visit. They are tweaking the business model and it is a huge change. We all just don't know yet once the dust settles if we will be happy with the new "experience" vs what we have come to expect.

Exactly. Disney already doesn't play by the same rules with all of its guests. There are already benefits to staying onsite vs. offsite when it comes to EMH or dinner reservations within the parks. So the argument that "We pay the same for park admission so we should get treated exactly the same" doesn't work. I think this is the next logical step and I hope Disney considers this.

Jim

Walt Disney Company is bigger than just WDW though. There is also Disneyland Resort in California, the overseas parks, etc. DLR & WDW had the same FP- system in place in both locations. Can we assume the same FP+ system will eventually be in place in both locations? DLR's bread and butter comes from the local SoCal population. There are only 3 small Disney hotels and a handful of good neighbor hotels. I really don't think DLR's day guests would like it if FP+ was reserved only for Disney hotel guests. Would Disney risk biting the hand that feeds them like that?

Most of us assume (without official numbers of course), that WDW's guests are split 30%-50% on site and 70%-50% off site, depending on the time of year. That's a lot of offsite guests to p*ss off. Can Disney afford to do that?

 

[Magpie]

You really think the DIS is the only forum talking about this? We aren't talking about someone sporting a lime green Mickey head paint chip from Home Depot here anymore.

It does seem to be the unhappiest one, from what I've seen!

Between the magic bands tracking where we are in the parks and hotel rooms, ADR with the CC hold, FP+ planning in advance, and now a lame tiered system (not one thing on the second tier needs a FP!) I'm thinking Disney has been taken over by a bunch of OCD control freaks off of their meds.

I have a friend here now who is diagnosed OCD, and sometimes goes off her meds. And she assures me that in no way would an OCD person be making so many changes. To quote her, "We like our rituals. We fear change."

OCD people do not embrace change, they do not experiment with things.

If she was in charge of Disney, you'd all still be on the original ticket-book system, cash only. And none of you would be allowed to use credit cards for your purchases. Too newfangled!

Know your mental illnesses, before using them pejoratively.

(Personally, I think it's more likely that a bunch of chaos-worshippers like me are in charge.)

 

[DPCummerbund]

A lot of people have mentioned the enormous costs Disney has incurred in creating the Magic Bands system, the universally negative reviews of the new system, and how everybody everywhere has nothing but bad things to say about Magic Bands from Disney's financial perspective.

So, after all this bad news, how is it affecting Disney financially, especially in terms of its stock price, you ask?

Disney's stock price

It's at all time highs! Sure, the parks are only one arm of the enormous Disney conglomerate, but Magic Bands aren't even a blip on the financial radar. Nobody cares.

 

[HUNGTE]

.

 

[larryz]

Good luck at check in. It took a long time for me yesterday (~1.5 hours). The line was long to begin with, at least 3 separate parties were having MB issues and waiting to be fixed at check in. When it's finally my turn, things weren't peachy either. The MB just wouldn't work right for charging dinning plan for all members of my party except for mine MB and half of the MB in my family won't open the resort doors. My wife's band won't allow pins to be attached for making a purchase either. (IT issues)
The regular cards though worked in all cases.

Let's say that MBs and MDE work perfectly for 99%+, and this level of malfunction only affects 1% of those coming to WDW...

That's still hundreds of thousands of grumpy MB/MDE/FP+ orphans running around the parks.

 

[Bullseye]

Those that say spending more on a Deluxe only entitles us to the room and the hotel amenities better stop using 180+10 ADR, or Disney Transportation , or Extra Magic Hours. After all off-site guest pay the same amount for park admission but can't do EMH. Everyone pays the same for ticket prices right? So no perks for staying on-site no matter the level. If you stay Value your paying for that room and hotel you should have no other perks because your only paying for the hotel. See how the whole "everyone" pays the same for park admission falls apart because Disney already shows they wish to give "perks" to those that spend more.

Yeah good point and there's nothing wrong with that. US/IOA has an amazing front of the line perk for folks staying at their resorts. There isn't any reason Disney shouldn't do the same.

At the resort that you pay more for, fine. You get better rooms, better amenities, and best of all proximity to the parks. At the parks however, I am of the opinion that since we all pay the same price for entry we should all get the same "perks" in the parks.

You generally pay more to stay onsite which is why you get the perks. The perk of staying offsite is getting a better room rate and/or getting an entire condo or house for the same rate as say a moderate. So yes, you will have better digs, but no you shouldn't get the same level of park perks too.

 

[larryz]

At the resort that you pay more for, fine. You get better rooms, better amenities, and best of all proximity to the parks.

At the parks however, I am of the opinion that since we all pay the same price for entry we should all get the same "perks" in the parks.

And there are those who believe that WDW is the experience, and don't differentiate between the costs of the parks and the hotels. After all, they're staying in the hotels because of the parks. It's unlikely there'd be ALL those rooms unless the parks were there.

Just like all those who pay for the privilege of the VIP tour experience. They pay more at WDW -- they get more at WDW.

Finally, the beauty of MBs/MDE is that should Disney decide to tier their entry fees (already being implemented at MK vs other parks) you could literally have different levels of experience at different price points: an "entry only" level... an "A-B-C Ride Experience" level... an "All-Rides Experience" level.

Oh, the humanity!!!

 

[clsteve]

And there are those who believe that WDW is the experience, and don't differentiate between the costs of the parks and the hotels. After all, they're staying in the hotels because of the parks. It's unlikely there'd be ALL those rooms unless the parks were there.

Just like all those who pay for the privilege of the VIP tour experience. They pay more at WDW -- they get more at WDW.

Finally, the beauty of MBs/MDE is that should Disney decide to tier their entry fees (already being implemented at MK vs other parks) you could literally have different levels of experience at different price points: an "entry only" level... an "A-B-C Ride Experience" level... an "All-Rides Experience" level.

Oh, the humanity!!!

This

From a previous post: Disney occupancy rate for on-site hotels has been dropping the last few years and was around 80 or so percent last year (I believe that was the number I saw posted in another discussion). FP+ is focused specifically on increasing that. Disney gets 99% of dollars spent by on-site guests not close to that for off-site. If FP+ can help get that number into the mid-upper 90's, they will have accomplished their goal.

It's the razor/razor blade or printer/printer ink analogy: Printer companies make 3 times the revenue on printer ink as do shaving companies with razor blades. The added perks, such as more FP+ reservations available for on-site guests, are Disney's "razor".

That is why the increase in standby time (especially for off-site) is a secondary concern for them and why it's a safe bet that on-site will have more FP+opportunities in number and lead time for reserving. The added revenue from the additional on-site guests will more than off-set dollars lost by off-site standing in line.

 

[CanadianPaco]

It's the razor/razor blade or printer/printer ink analogy: Printer companies make 3 times the revenue on printer ink as do shaving companies with razor blades. The added perks, such as more FP+ reservations available for on-site guests, are Disney's "razor".

Great analogy for the point you're making!

 

[sonogirl]

The FP+ whining is the very definition of First World Problems. I am heading down tomorrow and I am just astonishingly grateful that a) a place like WDW exists at all, b) that I don't have to work for a week, and c) that my kids are going to be really happy. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

 

[bjakmom]

Yeah good point and there's nothing wrong with that. US/IOA has an amazing front of the line perk for folks staying at their resorts. There isn't any reason Disney shouldn't do the same.

Realistically, I don't see how Disney can do the same thing as US/IOA does (and I am a huge fan of the FOTL perk there). The 3 resorts at Uni combined have a max of about 2,400 rooms. That is about equivalent to only AOA and BLT at Disney - add in the thousands of other WDW rooms and there are just too many to support the same kind of perk. Even Uni is not including their latest soon-to-open value resort in their FOTL perks.
I guess WDW could always offer an extended FP+ booking window and/or extra FP+ picks to their on-site guests, but even that could take quite a bite out of available FP+s for others just due to the sheer volume of rooms.
We'll see.

 

[kate2961]

I don't personally like the idea of being able to buy better access to the rides, shows, etc. I would like it better if the family struggling to even go to the park for one visit would have the same opportunity to ride rides as the family that can afford to buy a home at Golden Oak.

It's not that management can't do it, they can. I just don't want them to.

Kate

 

[Nancyg56]

This

From a previous post: Disney occupancy rate for on-site hotels has been dropping the last few years and was around 80 or so percent last year (I believe that was the number I saw posted in another discussion). FP+ is focused specifically on increasing that. Disney gets 99% of dollars spent by on-site guests not close to that for off-site. If FP+ can help get that number into the mid-upper 90's, they will have accomplished their goal.

It's the razor/razor blade or printer/printer ink analogy: Printer companies make 3 times the revenue on printer ink as do shaving companies with razor blades. The added perks, such as more FP+ reservations available for on-site guests, are Disney's "razor".

That is why the increase in standby time (especially for off-site) is a secondary concern for them and why it's a safe bet that on-site will have more FP+opportunities in number and lead time for reserving. The added revenue from the additional on-site guests will more than off-set dollars lost by off-site standing in line.

I agree. I have always believed that Disney is working towards keeping guests onsite for the duration of their stay. DME was a great start. No need to rent a car or pay for transportation....you just hop aboard and enjoy the ride. Add the inexpensive rollout of the previous DDP....no distinction between resorts, no need to pay tips, eat where you want and enjoy those experiences. Well, the DDP is no longer inexpensive and is probably not an incentive to staying onsite. DME is nice, and I admit a huge perk for my family, but is not enough to entice families to choose onsite resorts. What to do, what to do??? Give folks a head start to booking attractions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe there will be charges later. Maybe there will be distinctions between resorts. Maybe there will be nothing offered to offsite guests. Who know? But any advantage that onsite can offer those people who want to maximize their stay may be the difference between capturing all of their vacation dollars and losing some of those dollars.

I don't personally like the idea of being able to buy better access to the rides, shows, etc. I would like it better if the family struggling to even go to the park for one visit would have the same opportunity to ride rides as the family that can afford to buy a home at Golden Oak.

It's not that management can't do it, they can. I just don't want them to.

Kate

I am not sure how I feel, but from a management POV, if I can fill my resorts, keep the majority of the vacation dollars my guests have allocated towards their vacation....it is my obligation to try to do just that.

There have always been families whose spending is limited. I was not able to take my children until my fiance paid for us to go. Had he not had the funds, I would have had to continue to take them on less expensive vacations, and I would have done so. Other families make decisions that mirror those I had to make every day.

Once you enter the parks, I believe that much of the playing field is evened out, and while Disney is in this testing phase, it is not possible to see how this will all pan out. If Disney chooses to allocate earlier booking times, or perhaps a few more bookings if they are onsite guests, I believe this is fair. If they choose to shut out offsite guests from FP + altogether, I think there will be a huge negative fallout, and I bet Disney will not chance that.

 

[magicbob]

I would like it better if the family struggling to even go to the park for one visit would have the same opportunity to ride rides as the family that can afford to buy a home at Golden Oak.

Like they did for the past decade and a half under the legacy FP system.

 

[Schmeck]

I have a friend here now who is diagnosed OCD, and sometimes goes off her meds. And she assures me that in no way would an OCD person be making so many changes. To quote her, "We like our rituals. We fear change."

OCD people do not embrace change, they do not experiment with things.

If she was in charge of Disney, you'd all still be on the original ticket-book system, cash only. And none of you would be allowed to use credit cards for your purchases. Too newfangled!

Know your mental illnesses, before using them pejoratively.

(Personally, I think it's more likely that a bunch of chaos-worshippers like me are in charge.)

No, I think they are new to Disney, and that's why we are having all these changes - they want to have control so they can have their rituals! Or would this control of every little thing possible be more spectrumish? Whatever it is, it is definitely a new atmosphere of control that wasn't there before. If it was a single person coming up with these ideas, I'd be calling for a personnel review. Anyways, pretty soon we'll have to have magic bands to access toilets, and we'll only get 3 visits a day...

 

[bcrook]

I'm not gleeful but I do marvel at how people's views can be changed so quickly when the shoe is on the other foot so to speak. It also makes you wonder what if anything Disney will come up with next.

This was the original plan, the last 6 months or so have been a diversion.

 

[magicbob]

This was the original plan, the last 6 months or so have been a diversion.

Someone on one of these threads called it "magic." That's a very good analogy. One of the foundational principles of magic is misdirection... getting you to look at the pretty assistant so you don't notice the surly stagehand opening the trap door!

 

[Mad Hattered]

This was the original plan, the last 6 months or so have been a diversion.

Exactly! But it did make their charts and graphs seem to flow a little more to the positive side of things. Corporate doesn't like things in the negative.

 

[Magpie]

No, I think they are new to Disney, and that's why we are having all these changes - they want to have control so they can have their rituals! Or would this control of every little thing possible be more spectrumish? Whatever it is, it is definitely a new atmosphere of control that wasn't there before. If it was a single person coming up with these ideas, I'd be calling for a personnel review. Anyways, pretty soon we'll have to have magic bands to access toilets, and we'll only get 3 visits a day...

Yeah... obsessive-compulsive disorder really doesn't work like that. Nor does autism spectrum disorder. Like I said, it'd be awfully nice if you tried to educate yourself before using actual mental illnesses as pejorative terms to label groups of people (such as Disney's management teams).

Anyway, there's been a number of intelligent, thoughtful posts on here already explaining all of this from a management perspective, so I don't need to go into that again.

I'll just say that I'm just very much enjoying the recent spate of "Just back! Loved the MagicBands/FP+!" posts today. It's making me feel excited, looking forward to my December trip!