Sparrow624's Perpetual DVC Question Thread

[disneynutz]

or a risk tied to it. If you don't own and prices go up too much, you can chose other options. If you own and prices go up a lot you're locked in and if that happens, there would be little or no chance of selling out. I also think it's unreasonable to assume a different rate of inflation for maint fees and room costs, if anything, I would expect the % of increase net of discounts to be less for rooms than dues but assuming the same increase is reasonable. There are a lot of variables and risks that can't be truly accounted for. It's simply a gamble that includes variables such as one's finances, the price of rooms, dues, health issues and changes in personal situations and preferences. I think the risk is still reasonable for many but I see some buying in where it's not reasonable. It's like those buying the DDP saying they don't care how much it costs, they just like the convenience.

Our dues at BLT increased over 8% this year.

Bill

 

[Sparrow624]

I think you are doing a good job thinking this through. It is true that in order to be fair about the benefits of DVC, you have to do a true apples to apples comparison (i.e., what would it cost to get the same room and services without DVC). Comparing to renting DVC is the most obvious way, but you may have other alternatives. For example, we just returned from our OKW trip, and the 2 BR cost us ~$2800 for the week (we LOVED it). If my SSR resale gets past ROFR (please please please please please), the same room would cost ~$1000. The points cost ~ $11,000, so it is about 6 trips before we've hit the breakeven point (this is all math in my head, apologies if it is all wrong...).

But an apples to apples comparison isn't necessarily right for making your decision. My family of 6 needs the space of a 2 BR and the kitchen to save some money on meals. DVC villas are about our only option, so comparing owning and renting is simple. But for you, it is comparing your vacation alternatives and weighing the different benefits to each, of which cost is only one component. If your alternatives really are a Deluxe courtyard rack rate room vs. a 1 BR DVC villa, so be it. It doesn't matter that they are not the same type of room or amenities, it is what you consider your lodging alternatives to be. If you don't really need the kitchen, that is not much of a benefit. My wife declines daily housekeeping when we stay at hotels, so it is actually a benefit to us that they don't try to do that in the DVC villas. But for you that might be a negative.

I think your approach in weighing your true alternatives is the right one to take. But I think it threw people off when you did a direct price comparison, which implied that you were looking at the same rooms/amenities and only varying cost.

This is EXACTLY what I am trying to do. I am sorry if my comparison was confusing. I am sorry if it offended or upset some, but I am honestly trying to work out if this is a beneficial decision for my family. I am trying to convince my wife that this is a sound financial decision (she does not agree) and I am having trouble doing so.

On vacations, we do not want to have to cook or clean. We do a lot of that already and watch my parents spend an entire week long vacation at the beach every year...about 30% of it cooking and cleaning...or getting others in the family to do it when they visit. Everyone hates that part, haha. So, we would be eating out anyways.

We are not dealing with a $1,000 week at the beach here though, an entirely different cost spending.

My reason for comparing to a 2BR/1BR is that we need 2 beds. A pull out couch may work for a while, but not sure if it would be a long term solution.

Basically, we will only do this if there is a significant savings differential with what "we" need over the course of 30 years.

Not so sure yet.

 

[DougEMG]

My reason for comparing to a 2BR/1BR is that we need 2 beds. A pull out couch may work for a while, but not sure if it would be a long term solution.

Basically, we will only do this if there is a significant savings differential with what "we" need over the course of 30 years.

Not so sure yet.

1 bedrooms only have a king, a pull out couch and some have a sleeper chair, none have two real beds.

So if you need 2 beds, then your only have two options: an OKW studio which has 2 real beds or a 2 bedroom in any resort. Comparing the costs of these two options against a deluxe hotel room will give you the following results:

OKW studio will be cheaper than a deluxe hotel room. (Maybe not though if you get a good discount or free dining.)
While the deluxe hotel room will be cheaper than a 2 bedroom DVC room.

If it was me and I need the two beds and didn't want to spend the extra money to get a 2 bedroom I would not bother with DVC. Having an OKW studio as the only option doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

[bwvBound]

If it was me and I need the two beds and didn't want to spend the extra money to get a 2 bedroom I would not bother with DVC. Having an OKW studio as the only option doesn't seem worth the effort.

Agreed! I wouldn't buy DVC if I were only planning to book Studio units.

 

[Sparrow624]

Doug and BWVBound, thank you for the honest assessment. That is what it is looking like to me as well. We would need the 2 beds each trip and in order to get that, OKW or getting far more than 150 points appears to be the the only options to have an equal stay at a deluxe resort for at least 7 nights every other year.

I really like the idea of DVC, but as a few have honestly said, it looks like this may be a case of "DVC is not for everyone."


For a family of 3, wanting 2 beds, who like to eat out each night, it appears that based on room only costs (factoring out food/tickets) DVC still saves, but only a few thousand dollars over the long run.

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[DougEMG]

Doug and BWVBound, thank you for the honest assessment. That is what it is looking like to me as well. We would need the 2 beds each trip and in order to get that, OKW or getting far more than 150 points appears to be the the only options to have an equal stay at a deluxe resort for at least 7 nights every other year.

I really like the idea of DVC, but as a few have honestly said, it looks like this may be a case of "DVC is not for everyone."


For a family of 3, wanting 2 beds, who like to eat out each night, it appears that based on room only costs (factoring out food/tickets) DVC still saves, but only a few thousand dollars over the long run.

Thanks everyone for the input.

One option you could consider is renting out points. The comparisons on price become much easier to make and don't require any long term committment.

Just as an example looking at Aug 25, 2013 to Sept 01, 2013 (7 nights) at the Wilderness Lodge. Lets assume $11/point to rent.

Hotel room at full price is $2,282.
DVC studio is 120 points = $1,320
DVC 1 bedroom is 255 points = $2,805

So the studio is $962 cheaper or $137/day cheaper. You'd need a 42% discount on the room rate to equal the studio price.

If you normally go with free dining for 3 adults that costs $52/person/day or $156/day or $1,092 for the week for three people.

Hotel room at full price with free dining = $2,282
DVC studio with buying dining plan = $2,412

So the hotel room with free dining has a better price then a DVC studio and buying the dining plan.

If one compared the BWV preferred view, the studio is 125 points and the 1 bedroom 255, while the BWI hotel room is $2,891.

BWI hotel room = $2,891 (full price)
BWV studio = $1,375
BWV 1 bedroom = $2,8051

then looking at free dining vrs buying it you get

BWI hotel room with free dining = $2,891
BWV studio buying DDP = $2,468

Here the studio wins even when compared to free dining.

So DVC is a good deal only under certain conditions.

 

[CarolAnnC]

DVC is not designed to provide the cheapest deal for staying on Disney property.

It is a "Home Away from Home" Villa concept, with kitchen facilities, and multiple sleeping arrangements for those who want a timeshare concept on Disney property.

Families can seek out options such as Value and/or Moderate resorts on property, some of which now offer "Family Suites". Those would be more in line for budget minded families who do not intend on using kitchen facilities for some meal preparation on their trips. If you want to eat all your meals out, that may be something to look into, if you want a lower priced venue.

DVC does not promise the cheapest venue, but offers very attractive Villas with amenities, as opposed to Deluxe Resort accommodations which would be a higher cost overall.

 

[Dean]

Our dues at BLT increased over 8% this year.

Bill

In my view, and I've stated her on DIS, I think BLT fees were artificially low. I do think they will remain reasonable but not at the difference level that they started out and not enough to make paying more for the lower fees worthwhile.

Agreed! I wouldn't buy DVC if I were only planning to book Studio units.

It depends on the situation. The best dollar value comparison is using a studio compared to a deluxe hotel room followed by a 2 BR compared to 2 hotel rooms. Comparing to a moderate will be around break even depending on specifics and assumptions. Off site and value resorts will essentially always be cheaper.

 

[BestDadEver]

Can you please explain your thinking here? I'm not seeing a way in which the tax for a stay is the same amount as the maintenance fees.

I didnt mean the tax would be more then dues . but it would be a diffrence of at least half .

 

[Dean]

I didnt mean the tax would be more then dues . but it would be a diffrence of at least half .

You mean dues that might be $12-1500 or more on 300 points for a 2 BR for a week that might have taxes in the $4-600 range if one were paying full price.

 

[BestDadEver]

Ill post#'s later when I look at them cause I need to be exact . But if had 300 points my dues would be around $1300 .

 

[Sparrow624]

Well, I may be back in the game after all..haha.

The wife thinks the studio option may work for about 10 or so years and wants me to continue crunching numbers for a few more weeks. Here's to hoping I can make this work.

 

[DougEMG]

Well, I may be back in the game afterall..haha.

The wife thinks the studio option may work for about 10 or so years and wants me to continue crunching numbers for a few more weeks. Here's to hoping I can make this work.

Good luck with that

 

[Sparrow624]

Good luck with that

Yeah...I know. Hey, "if the wife is happy..."

 

[Missyrose]

Ill post#'s later when I look at them cause I need to be exact . But if had 300 points my dues would be around $1300 .

300 points would have dues around $1300 at only a couple of the resorts. Most of the DVC resort dues on 300 points would be $1400-$1500+.

 

[Sparrow624]

Can someone post the per point dues for the following DVC resorts? I can't seem to find them online and Disney DVC only sent me info on AKL (they really want me to buy at AKL but we are not interested there):

- VWL
- Boardwalk
- Beach Club

Thanks.

 

[DannysMom]

Check the stickies at the top of this forum. The info you are looking for is in a sticky titled DVC RESOURCE CENTER.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos.

 

[bwvBound]

Can someone post the per point dues for the following DVC resorts? I can't seem to find them online and Disney DVC only sent me info on AKL (they really want me to buy at AKL but we are not interested there):

- VWL
- Boardwalk
- Beach Club

Thanks.

Rate history from first year through current is found in post #2 at: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2823943

 

[bwvBound]

The wife thinks the studio option may work for about 10 or so years and wants me to continue crunching numbers for a few more weeks.

Ah, in that case ... don't forget to forecast a resale value for 10-years down the road. It might have a favorable impact on nightly usage costs.

On the other hand, I figured something similar to a 10-yr straight line depreciation for the initial buy-in and then considered all remaining years as gravy (dues only).

Welcome back! Good luck!

 

[DougEMG]

On the other hand, I figured something similar to a 10-yr straight line depreciation for the initial buy-in and then considered all remaining years as gravy (dues only).