Zero tolerance? Well, maybe not....

[cardaway]

I don't like it when it extends to silly things like butter knives, but in this case the zero tollerance policy should be enforced.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Ah, yes, but there is the rub...an UNLOADED BB gun is no more a weapon than a plastic knife, unless used to threaten someone.

nope, I can't agree with you there. A plastic knife definately has purpose other than being used as a weapon. In fact, it really can't be used as a weapon at all.

However, I can not think of one single thing a BB gun can be used for other than pointing it at something/someone and shooting it/them.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by Crankyshank
I have trouble understanding how a 10 day suspension is punishment. The kid gets 2 wks off school. I only see that as punishment for the parents. Certainly no deterrent for the kids.

I don't know about other schools, but in ours, any out-of-school suspensions also mean that you receive zero for all schoolwork done during that time, includings tests/finals, no make-ups allowed...a 10 day suspension can mean a failing semester that would ned to be repeated.

Caity,

you really make the best case for his needing to be expelled, you are totally right. If the case would have been that he were expelled, I certainly wouldn't be arguing that he should have received a lesser punishment. But, I think the school board and administration should have room to make concessions for specific cirumstances. Seems that the school board felt the circumstances were not extreme enough for expulsion. That is my only real argument.

TF, I am just being argumentative...just pointing out that an empty BB cannot be used as a gun any more than a plastic knife can be used like a hunting knife. I understand your point. To me, it does make a difference, when it comes to this kids motives, knowing that he brought the gun empty.

 

[supermom2]

Seems to me that Zero tolerance came about to counter the PC'ers out there. The school can't be looked at as 'picking' on somebody if everybody is punished equally. As usual - common sense gets buried again.

With that said - we brought home a neat souvenier from Disney for our 4rd grader. A small knife from the stand outside of China. He collects this kind of stuff and displays it in his room. He was so excited he brought it to school to show his friends. Although we have zero tolerance in our schools, the teacher quietly confiscated the knife and called us to let us know he has it and that was that. Thank God common sense can still prevail.

 

[caitycaity]

Thank God common sense can still prevail.

i don't mean to pick on you, but did you explain to your child why he should never do that again? i understand kids make mistakes, but i think a lot of times these days (again, i have no idea about your situation, so i'm not picking on you, just making generalizations) parents make excuse after excuse for their child without punishing them.

children learn boundaries from punishment. i really think children need to learn early on that life might not be fair, but they still have to follow the rules, or expect punishment.

i'm not saying i'm necessarily in favor of zero tolerance. i'm not, and in a lot of cases, i think it goes completely overboard. but i think zero tolerance is more in response to parents not parenting well and encouraging entitlement attitudes in their kids.

again, jmho.

 

[Lisa F]

I agree with poohandwendy about intent being important. After all, aren't crimes treated differently based on intent? The sentence for first degree murder is quite a bit different than it is for involuntary manslaughter even though the result for the victim is the same. Likewise, I think making a stupid error in judgement and not really thinking about the fact that even unloaded and even though it's not a "real" gun it's still a weapon is not the same crime at all as a kid who brings in even the same exact gun with the intent to terrorize his classmates, or worse... brings in a "real" weapon with the intent to seriously injure or kill one of their classmates.

I also disagree with zero tolerance policies. I'm not saying there should be no punishment for breaking the rules, but I think that the punishment should fit the "crime". A basically good kid who makes a stupid error in judgement should not have the same punishment as a "bad" kid who was intending to do bad things.

 

[shortbun]

expell him. Now.

There is NO EXCUSE for bring any type of weapon to a school.
Intent schement! Children today are very clear on the rules.
Believe me, I know.

A high school student knows there is a no weapon rule. A
4th grader might not realize a souvenir knife is a weapon.
What if the gun had fallen into the hands of another less
innocent student? Been to a high school lately? You would
not want to be there if a student had a gun.

 

[supermom2]

We are still talking about a BB gun, right?

Response to 'caitycaity': Of course we've made him aware of his mistake.

 

[tonyswife]

I agree totally with poohandwendy.

I think zero tolerance is LAZY. It is the mind set that gets grade school kids expelled for such silly offenses as a peck on the cheek in the playground and a butter knife in the lunch box.

 

[momof2inPA]

An unloaded BB gun is no more a weapon than the pop guns that are sold outside of Pirates of the Carribean. Most of the kids where I live see them as toys, and probably would not think they were bringing a weapon to school and violating the zero tolerance policy. The boy scouts even teach kids here how to shoot BB guns. In my opinion, the suspension should have been for no more than five days. Save the real punishment for the violent kids.

Personally, my kids will never own a BB gun, a real gun, or one of the POC guns.

 

[eeyore kelly]

The boy scouts even teach kids here how to shoot BB guns.

Yes, Boy Scouts do teach kids to shoot BB guns, safely use knives, hatchets, and small saws. Boy Scouts even teach .22 rifle.
Cubs do BB's

The first line about a BB gun we give the Scouts is what you are holding in your hand is a weapon and it can kill, maim, and hurt you.

When we teach knives, the first sentence out of our mouth is Never bring a knife to school, you will be expelled. Then we go into the weapon part.

it doesn't make bringing a BB gun to school right, just because BSA teaches it under entirely different settings.