zanzibar's European Adventure

[zanzibar138]

Do wander the city. Just... get lost. Seriously. Wonderful place. Just... if you're going to do a gondola ride, avoid the hordes around Piazza San Marco and instead... wander. We found a few gondoliers hanging around waiting (as opposed to you doing the waiting) at Ponte San Moise just a few steps away. And for much less! (This was a few years ago. YMMV)

Well when I say 'just the gondola ride', I'm sure there would be some wandering around and just taking it all in as well (same as Paris and London) - there's just no other 'attraction' that we really want to do there.

Having said that, if Grandma is with us for these places, our 'wandering' may be more limited. We will be taking a travel wheelchair for her, but not sure what the limitations will be with that.

 

[pkondz]

Well when I say 'just the gondola ride', I'm sure there would be some wandering around and just taking it all in as well (same as Paris and London) - there's just no other 'attraction' that we really want to do there.

Having said that, if Grandma is with us for these places, our 'wandering' may be more limited. We will be taking a travel wheelchair for her, but not sure what the limitations will be with that.

Wheelchair in Venice is tough. Lots of bridges with stairs.

 

[zanzibar138]

Wheelchair in Venice is tough. Lots of bridges with stairs.

Yes, I thought that might be the case! Grandma doesn't actually need the wheelchair, but has limited mobility (currently uses a walking stick) and will be slow to get around without one, and unable to manage too many stairs or slopes anyway. We might have to splurge on a nice apartment where she can enjoy a drink on a patio with a view while we wander

 

[iona]

It sounds like quite a trip! I’m happy to help with the London planning. If you have some extra time in south Wales, I was surprised by how interesting St Fagans National Museum of History was. I was going to recommend a castle we visited in northern Wales a few years ago but, having dug out the photos, it turns out it was Chirk Castle…

 

[zanzibar138]

It sounds like quite a trip! I’m happy to help with the London planning. If you have some extra time in south Wales, I was surprised by how interesting St Fagans National Museum of History was. I was going to recommend a castle we visited in northern Wales a few years ago but, having dug out the photos, it turns out it was Chirk Castle…

Thank you! I will definitely need some help with London when we've locked in some dates.

Sounds like Chirk Castle will be a winner Will look up the St Fagans museum too. We're not big museum people, so I suspect after visiting a select few in Paris and Vienna, we'll probably be museum'd out lol! Always good to have a few different options for things to do though.

 

[Steppesister]

I'd not return to Paris- been twice and both times the locals were truly rude and it was filthy.

Venice is a place I'd return to again for sure! Love the photographic nature of it!

London- Lots to see and do for sure! But I am dying to get up into the Northern Country and do a Pride and Prejudice or James Herriot tour.

 

[zanzibar138]

I'd not return to Paris- been twice and both times the locals were truly rude and it was filthy.

Glad it's not just me! I didn't really have problems with people being rude, but I felt uncomfortable there and just didn't 'get' it. Everyone raves about how romantic and wonderful it is, but I couldn't see it. Maybe Ben will love it (I hope not lol!)

Venice is a place I'd return to again for sure! Love the photographic nature of it!

Good to know! This is kind of the opposite spectrum to Paris - it regularly appears on 'most over-rated destinations' lists, and Dad's personal feedback was that he didn't love it. I'm quite intrigued about it now.

London- Lots to see and do for sure! But I am dying to get up into the Northern Country and do a Pride and Prejudice or James Herriot tour.

Dad was quite surprised that I was only planning to spend a couple of days in London. I know there's lots to do, and I'm sure we could quite easily fill a week with enjoyable activities. There's just nothing that I need to do, you know? Like, if all we get to do is walk along the Thames and see the Tower of London, I won't feel like I've missed out. I'm just not a big city type of person, I'd rather spend that time seeing more of the countryside in Wales.

To be honest, I'm even a little worried about spending so much time in Vienna. Personally, I'd rather spend most of that time in the Austrian countryside and just spend a couple of days in Vienna mainly for the horses. Again, I'm sure we'll be able to fill our time with enjoyable activities, but there are so many things I'd rather do in Austria (eg out near Salzburg I saw that you can visit an amazing looking ice cave - even had an Elsa DB planned lol!). Just really conscious of not wanting to break up the trip with too many 1-3 night stays as I think travel days will be tiring for Grandma.

 

[zanzibar138]

More on Venice...

Out of interest, I've just done a little bit more research on Venice for the mobility impaired. I came across a very sensible suggestion to book a hotel near a vaporetto (water bus) stop on the Grand Canal. That way, we won't have to worry about crossing bridges to get around - we can just get around on the vaporetto.

So I jumped onto Expedia and did a quick search of hotels with the following requirements:

• Any area of Venice, but with no canal crossings to get to the nearest vaporetto stop. Due to the layout of Venice, this results in a pretty short walk too.
• Hotel with a lift. I want Grandma to be able to enjoy the entire hotel, including any rooftop terrace or breakfast rooms that might not be on the ground floor.
• Step free access to the hotel entrance.
• Rooms available that have walk in showers instead of a shower over bath setup.
• A nice (shared) terrace/courtyard that Grandma can enjoy if she doesn't feel like going out.
• Less than AUD $1500 for... 2 nights (based on random dates this September).

My search returned a grand total of 5 possibilities, with a 2-7 minute walk from the nearest vaporetto, and ranging in price from AUD $865 to AUD $1298 for 2 nights. And let me tell you, these are not fancy hotels. Pretty much all the hotels I've seen so far in Venice have fairly opulent furnishings, but once you get past that, these are fairly basic 3 star hotels, outside of the main preferred areas.

Normally, we'd have a far greater variety of hotels available to us at different price points, but we do seem to be severely constrained by Grandma's accessibility requirements. I'm starting to wonder if we're better off waiting until another trip, but with 16+ hour flights and an unfavourable exchange rate, I don't know if/when we might get back to Europe

 

[pkondz]

Out of interest, I've just done a little bit more research on Venice for the mobility impaired. I came across a very sensible suggestion to book a hotel near a vaporetto (water bus) stop on the Grand Canal. That way, we won't have to worry about crossing bridges to get around - we can just get around on the vaporetto.

While smart… Venice does limit someone with mobility issues on their ability to explore the city.

 

[zanzibar138]

While smart… Venice does limit someone with mobility issues on their ability to explore the city.

I'm honestly not even sure if Grandma has any interest in Venice - this is really just to tick it off the list for Hubby, and I don't think he has much interest in exploring. I think they'd both be more than satisfied with their visit just enjoying what they can of the canals from the comfort of a boat and/or canal-side cafe. Realistically we probably don't even need to spend a night there, but that will be the only way to be able to get the morning train to Vienna.

It's probably not worth putting too much effort into until we know what flights we can get anyway. We'll pretty much need to fly into Milan to be able to make it work.

 

[zanzibar138]

So, as is very often the case at this early stage of trip planning, we have had a bit of a change of plan.

I shared my concerns with Hubby about Venice and Vienna, and showed him some pictures/video from around Salzburg that show the beautiful Austrian scenery that I'm really interested in. He was immediately sold, and has spoken to Grandma, who has assured us that she will be fine to travel around a little bit to accommodate seeing more of Austria than just Vienna. So we've decided to just spend 2 nights in Vienna and 5 in Salzburg instead. And ditching Venice altogether.

In fact, we have decided to reverse the itinerary and start with DLP. I know that DLP will start to get busy at the end of October due to school holidays in France and also with Halloween time, and since we will need to be a little flexible with timing, was concerned that we might start to run into that busy period at the end of our trip. Plus, if we go straight there, we can aim to be there for my birthday which would be fun!

The reason we had DLP at the end of the trip is because I always like to finish a trip with Disney. However, if we can get the flights to line up, we can bookend with DLP and HKDL

So the revised planned itinerary is now:

• Day 1: Fly from Perth to the most appropriate Asian hub based on flight availability. Stay overnight for buffer time before the next flight.
• Day 2: Fly from there to Paris, preferably overnight, to arrive first thing in the morning.
• Day 3: Arriver at CDG, take the train to DLP. Preferably stay at Sequoia Lodge. We will need to line this up to arrive on a Monday if we get APs (which looks like the best value for 5 days in the parks), as weekends are blocked for the cheapest level.
• Day 4-6: DLP.
• Day 7: Take the train into Paris. Spend one night there to see the Eiffel Tower lights.
• Day 8: Take the train to London, where we will meet my parents. If Grandma wants to spend some time with her family, we can put her straight on another train to Liverpool.
• Day 9-11: London. I've pencilled in 2 days of city sightseeing either side of a day trip to the village where my dad was born.
• Day 12: Take the train to Liverpool, where we will probably try to organise a family dinner and meet back up with Grandma.
• Day 13: Pick up a car (most likely a large van) and drive to the Snowdonia area of Wales, where we will book out a holiday house to fit all of us.
• Day 14-19: Spend our time doing a selection of day trips, local sightseeing and relaxing at the house.
• Day 20: Start making our way back to London, driving back down to the South Wales/England border area.
• Day 21: Finish the drive to Gatwick airport, return the hire car and stay at an airport hotel for the night.
• Day 22: Fly to Salzburg.
• Day 23-26: Salzburg. I've pencilled in 2 days of city sightseeing and 2 day trips. One to a nearby alpine lake area, which will be suitable for Grandma with a cruise on the lake and cog railway up the mountain. The other one probably not suitable for Grandma to a large ice cave and huge fortress among the mountains.
• Day 27: Take the train to Vienna.
• Day 28: Full day in Vienna. On the must-do list are the performance at the Spanish Riding School, the National Library, St Stephen's Cathedral, and a coffee house. All are within about a 10 minute walk of each other. We will need to line this up to be on a weekend. This year the Spanish Riding School performances are at 11am on Saturdays and Sundays in September and October. I can only assume next year will be similar.
• Day 29: My parents will continue their journey in Europe while we fly to Hong Kong. This will most likely be an overnight flight.
• Day 30: Arrive in Hong Kong, spend the remainder of the day at HKDL.
• Day 31: Full day at HKDL.
• Day 32: Fly home to Perth.

I had planned a hard stop at 4 weeks (ie 28 days), but we'll be pretty hard pressed to cut down anywhere really! I don't think it will be a dealbreaker to take an extra few days.

 

[Steppesister]

Glad it's not just me! I didn't really have problems with people being rude, but I felt uncomfortable there and just didn't 'get' it. Everyone raves about how romantic and wonderful it is, but I couldn't see it. Maybe Ben will love it (I hope not lol!)

When I've been there, it was filthy and over-priced. Just not my cup of tea.

Good to know! This is kind of the opposite spectrum to Paris - it regularly appears on 'most over-rated destinations' lists, and Dad's personal feedback was that he didn't love it. I'm quite intrigued about it now.

You'll have to decide for yourself.

I'm just not a big city type of person, I'd rather spend that time seeing more of the countryside in Wales.

Me too!

I'd rather spend most of that time in the Austrian countryside and just spend a couple of days in Vienna mainly for the horses.

I think I'd prefer the countryside as well. It sure looks pretty!

Out of interest, I've just done a little bit more research on Venice for the mobility impaired.

Yeah... that.

Normally, we'd have a far greater variety of hotels available to us at different price points, but we do seem to be severely constrained by Grandma's accessibility requirements.

That sure didn't leave a lot of options.

So we've decided to just spend 2 nights in Vienna and 5 in Salzburg instead. And ditching Venice altogether.

I think this is a much better plan. My mom had a VERY hard time in Venice and we almost missed trains due to her mobility. It's just not very handicapped friendly.

 

[zanzibar138]

Dummy Airline Bookings​

We're at that annoying time when I want to do more planning but can't until we are able to lock in our flights, still with a month or so to go before flights open up.

Over the weekend I tried a dummy booking based on some random dates about a year away, just to trial booking business reward flights for 3 people. I used the very cool 'Asia - Large Airports' to 'Europe - Large Airports' feature on seats.aero to be able to narrow down my search. Then followed that up with a search directly on Qantas. Most of the time of course, the fares identified through seats.aero were only available for one or two travellers. 3 is quite tricky to find!

I did find one direct option from Bangkok to Paris with Thai Airways. Bangkok is only about a 7 hour flight from Perth, so happy to do that one on a budget airline. It's also a nice cheap stopover destination for acccommodation etc.

Coming back was a bit more of a problem, and the best I could do was flights from London to Hong Kong with Emirates, flying through Dubai. Obviously I'd prefer direct flights, but I'll take a layover if it's going to be the difference between being able to get business class or not.

There were a few more options in premium economy, and I'm going to sound like a real flight-snob here, but unfortunately premium just isn't enough of a step-up from economy for me to make it worthwhile. I don't care so much about the lounge access, upgraded food and beverage etc - it's all about the lie-flat seat, which is only available in business at this stage.

We'll switch the itinerary around as required to suit the flights we're able to get. For example, for those flights I found, we'd stick with DLP first, a couple of days in Paris, then head to Austria, and finish off with the UK so we would be finishing up in London.

I've also decided to open up Shanghai and Tokyo as possible stopover destinations on the way home. Sticking with Hong Kong may be fairly limiting, but I still really want to finish with a Disney destination! Just means a bit more trouble getting back to Perth, with direct flights only available from Hong Kong.