Your Opinion - Another Divorce Situation

[Luvchefmic]

See if Jane & John want to move back in together & Mary & babe go over to the condo.....kidding ! Again Mary better off with John or without? Only her decision....and a perfect example of Buyer Beware....

 

[CowboyCO]

Here is a situation I have been hearing all about. My opinion has been swayed so much that I'm curious what others think about it.

My cousin (Mary) is married to John. John has an ex-wife (Jane). John and Jane had two children before they divorced.

The house John and Jane lived in was completely paid off by them before the divorce. Because Jane has a job where she travels most of the time, they decided John would stay in the house with the kids and she would live in a nearby condo. Because the divorce was very amicable, the house remains in both their names and theirs wills state the house is going to their sons.

Also, because John felt bad living mortgage-free while Jane was now paying rent, he agreed to pay half her rent to even them both out.

Now, my cousin is married to John. Since she married him she's always accepted this, though it bothered her. The main things that bothered her were the fact that the husband was paying half of Jane's (very large) rent, and the fact that the house was in the wife's name, so that my cousin always still felt like she was living in another woman's house, and everything from cleaning the house to maintenance to yard work would irritate her because it was all for someone else's benefit in the end.

But she put up with it until her and John had their own child.

It bothers her that her child will grow up and not have any right to the childhood home, while his two half-brothers will get it.

My cousin would like Jane to move back into that home, and then her and her husband could buy their own home for their own little family and leave it to their son, or in honour of all the contributions she is making, add her son into the will for a share of this home.

John and Jane both won't budge.

So, my cousin is ready to walk away. At this stage she says it isn't even so much about the house as it is that it's clear he is putting his original family ahead of his new family.

Do you think she's right about that?

Of course, as with all situations I can't possibly include every single factor, I'm just curious.

Mary needs to grow up and pretend to be an adult. She married into a divorced situation where terms and assets had already been decided upon. Her kid (with John) will have no claim on that property unless John decides to change what to do with his half of the house asset.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I'd be outta there in a hot minute....now WAY would an ex wife have any say in the home I lived in. Sounds like John is WAY to involved with his ex.

No other woman will have any say in my house, especially an ex!

This sounds like communism - good in theory but bad in practice.

John needs to go back to Jane and say that life has changed and we need to redo this deal.

I would imagine that even if Mary and John divorce, it may be likely he will marry again and have the same issues.

Honestly, it was a stupid idea to begin with. Who ties their life around a house that won't even be passed along for hopefully decades?

 

[tommya60]

I love Northstar's suggestions. Really the kitchen situation clarifies a LOT.
Did Jane pay for half the kitchen? Why does Jane get to pick for her condo and for the house?
If I were Mary, I'd stop contributing to anything other than consumables (ie groceries, towels, etc). Taxes, maintance, etc would have to come from John and Jane. She really needs to separate her finances from this situation....and save her money for her own house. John and Jane may not like it, but it is something Mary can control. She may not be able to get John and Jane to re negotiate, but she can separate her finances from this mess, and be prepared to provide a home for her and her child(ern).

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I love Northstar's suggestions. Really the kitchen situation clarifies a LOT.
Did Jane pay for half the kitchen? Why does Jane get to pick for her condo and for the house?.

Jane rents her condo -- I can't imagine she has any say whatsoever in whether or not the kitchen is remodeled.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

Mary needs to go see a lawyer to find out what her rights are regarding marital property etc. This way she will know for sure where she stands. She needs to look after herself and her child because it sounds like John sure isn't concerned about them.
I haven't read the entire thread but is this agreement a legal one? As in final divorce order?
People enter relationships with love and rainbows in mind and not legal stuff. After being through a divorce I am way smarter when it comes to stuff like this. I would have never gotten involved with a man who still had his ex wife on the title to the house. John needs to grow up and stop caring financially for his old relationship.
Jane has it good....too good. Half of the rent paid plus she owns half a house. She'll never want that to change.

 

[castleview]

Maybe this has been asked. But why would either John (or Mary) sign onto living in the same house forever? Did they plan on eventually buying another home while renting out the other?

I think the three have acted honorably putting John's kids first. But what financial future does Mary have if her name is not on that house...and what about baby #3? That should be her biggest concern.

 

[robinb]

Maybe this has been asked. But why would either John (or Mary) sign onto living in the same house forever? Did they plan on eventually buying another home while renting out the other?

I assume the agreement is only until the kids are grown and not forever.

 

[auntie]

Mary needs to grow up and pretend to be an adult. She married into a divorced situation where terms and assets had already been decided upon. Her kid (with John) will have no claim on that property unless John decides to change what to do with his half of the house asset.

I think that is entirely the point. The OP is asking opinions as to what exactly Marry should DO about the situation she finds herself in. Mary(the cousin) seems to have come to the realization..albiet later, rather than sooner..that she and her son are not provided for in the current scenario. The question currently at hand is...what does she do about it.
Now, we can all beat a dead horse to death over the fact that certainly.. Mary should have known going into this marriage, that the arrangement (which worked so well for John and Jane), would leave her as an outsider in her own home. Only....really, that doesn't change anything.
It does appear from what the OP wrote, that her cousin came to her senses and did quite a bit of growing up when she brought her own child into the world. Seems like reality is smacking her right in the face about now.

 

[tinatark]

Honestly, the ex-husband needs to buy out the ex wife's interest in the house. If he (they) own it outright, it would be simple for him to get a mortgage/equity loan if he doesn't have the cash to pay her.

I can't imagine a judge signing off a divorce decree with these conditions!

If the ex wife doesn't agree with him buying out her share, then a visit to an attorney by the ex husband is in order. Divorce decree orders aren't always permanent!

Aside from all the craziness - if she/ex is on the title and is ultimately entitled to half of it, she should also be contributing to the upkeep/maintenance/taxes, etc. At the very least the ex h should be maintaining records of everything he has paid to benefit her/children/maintain the house - those funds should be taken into consideration if he chooses to "buy her out".

 

[lizziepooh]

Seems like Jane has it pretty good and really has no incentive to change anything.

She owns half of a house for which she pays no expenses, upkeep, maintenance or taxes.

She gets half of her rent paid by John.

She pays no child support while John and Mary are raising her kids so she can travel for her job.

She gets the ego trip of controlling the EXs new wife by picking out stuff for the new kitchen.

I agree with a previous poster. Mary should separate her finances NOW and contribute only a fair portion to current living expenses, so she can save for a house or a place for her and her child if it comes to that.

Sometimes we don't have a clear picture of a situation until we get into the middle of it. I think that is what happened to Mary.

 

[castleview]

Seems like Jane has it pretty good and really has no incentive to change anything.

She owns half of a house for which she pays no expenses, upkeep, maintenance or taxes.

She gets half of her rent paid by John.

She pays no child support while John and Mary are raising her kids so she can travel for her job.

She gets the ego trip of controlling the EXs new wife by picking out stuff for the new kitchen.

I agree with a previous poster. Mary should separate her finances NOW and contribute only a fair portion to current living expenses, so she can save for a house or a place for her and her child if it comes to that.

Sometimes we don't have a clear picture of a situation until we get into the middle of it. I think that is what happened to Mary.

Nicely put.

 

[luvmy3]

Yes, he wants to look out for Jane and his kids. That is even one of the things my cousin always liked about him, that he was honourable and wouldn't shirk his responsibilities. But now she wonders if that extends to her or just Jane.

An example, in the spring John said that he felt the house needed a new kitchen - all updated and fancy shmancy. Most wives would be thrilled right? Well then she found out that Jane would have a hand in picking everything out because, after all, it is her house. So now the kitchen has changed but still has Jane all over it. Mary had said her and John should decorate how they see fit, and if Jane ever takes possession of the house she can change it, etc. John said no. He said Mary can do whatever she wants in terms of smaller things (curtains, etc.) but not "major" things that really effect the house and its value.
Now she is a nice person but this type of thing can be crazy-making. How is she supposed to ever feel at home there?

She is great. She is the one that tells John and Jane what the kids really want for their birthdays. She is the one that suggested the two older boys were old enough to start getting their own allowance, things like that. She's always trying to take of everybody.

She knows that if she leaves it will spun as "greedy Mary left because she wasn't entitled to the house" but it is so much more than that.

I think this whole family hit the jackpot when they got Mary.

Yes, I may be biased but then she's never given me any reason not to be.

Are you freakin serious

Run Mary, Run.
I know thats easier said than done, but things are only going to get worse the longer she stays with the status quo. I hope it all works out for her, but I don't think its ever going to.

 

[castleview]

Are you freakin serious

Run Mary, Run.
I know thats easier said than done, but things are only going to get worse the longer she stays with the status quo. I hope it all works out for her, but I don't think its ever going to.

This is starting to remind me of a girl my husband went to high school with. She lived with a guy for twenty years basically paying $1,000 rent to her live in lover who owned the house. Well, after twenty years he dumped her after she pretty much paid for his house. I feel bad for her and I don't at the same time.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

Honestly, the ex-husband needs to buy out the ex wife's interest in the house. If he (they) own it outright, it would be simple for him to get a mortgage/equity loan if he doesn't have the cash to pay her.

I can't imagine a judge signing off a divorce decree with these conditions!

If the ex wife doesn't agree with him buying out her share, then a visit to an attorney by the ex husband is in order. Divorce decree orders aren't always permanent!

Aside from all the craziness - if she/ex is on the title and is ultimately entitled to half of it, she should also be contributing to the upkeep/maintenance/taxes, etc. At the very least the ex h should be maintaining records of everything he has paid to benefit her/children/maintain the house - those funds should be taken into consideration if he chooses to "buy her out".

What kind of lawyer did John have that advised his client to sign off on this divorce order? I've never heard of one so stupid.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

It seems like there is a simple and equitable way to resolve this.

First, John should buy out his ex-wife's stake in the house. He can do this with a proviso that their children will inherit the house. That is an equitable arrangement for John and his ex because they share equally in the vlaue of the house.

To make things fair for the children, John should divide his estate equally amongst his three children. If he gives the house to his first two, he should give half the value of the house to the third child in some other form. Each now gets the same value.

With that done, John is no longer financially entangled with his ex. That should make for a healthier relationship with his current wife. The ex got her fair share. The original children got the house. The newer child go treated equally by their father. It seems fair to everyone.

 

[mtemm]

I think the point is, john doesn't want the arrangement to change, and jane doesn't. mary is the only one who does. which means it is not going to change. only what she is in control of can change, so either she figures out how to change her own contribution to the home as has been suggested, or she gets john to agree to something that makes her happy that doesn't involve jane/john's agreement, or divorce.

I think a visit to a financial planner would be a very good thing for mary.

 

[Skywalker]

I think the point is, john doesn't want the arrangement to change, and jane doesn't.

Yep, that really is the point.

You've had a lot of great ideas here but they won't budge. It is the strangest thing. I will tell her to make some of the suggestions to John, but it's probably going to be the same brick wall as her other suggestions.

She's not the first person to walk into a situation and realize it was a mistake, or go into a marriage with a romanticized notion of how it will all work out. Still, she's trying so hard not to be resentful, but it's building.

I think Mary will leave...not sure but I think so.

If she does no one will be sadder than all three of those boys.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Yep, that really is the point.

You've had a lot of great ideas here but they won't budge. It is the strangest thing. I will tell her to make some of the suggestions to John, but it's probably going to be the same brick wall as her other suggestions.

She's not the first person to walk into a situation and realize it was a mistake, or go into a marriage with a romanticized notion of how it will all work out. Still, she's trying so hard not to be resentful, but it's building.

I think Mary will leave...not sure but I think so.

If she does no one will be sadder than all three of those boys.

That is sad. But what can she do? I couldn't live with a man who would not budge for my well being either.

 

[Gigi22]

Could Mary get John to go to marriage counselling? If we take all issues related to the house off the table for the moment, and oh let's just do that--then Mary and John have certain issues that they need to iron out. What are John's reasonable expectations of Mary in this marriage? And what are Mary's reasonable expectations of John in this marriage? I think they need to sort out their non-house issues and see where that leaves them both, if anywhere. It could be that John would become more willing to deal with Mary's anxieties if he could see past the property issue, which has a way of clouding their relationship issues. At least they would both be able to move forward rather than replaying the same old problems over and over.