Your Opinion - Another Divorce Situation

[gina2000]

John should buy a home/condo and charge Jane rent equaling 1/2 of the mortgage to live in it. That dwelling should be willed to his current wife and third child. This way John and Jane aren't thowing money away in rent and Mary and her DS are assured an inheritance.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Its almost laughable all of our opinions (mine included) because the bottom line is John & Jane made this agreement long before Mary and new baby came into the picture Jane & John aren't here asking us & probably don't give a hoot what any of us think or suggest. Mary now has to decide am I better off with John or without John ?

 

[RitaZ.]

Its almost laughable all of our opinions (mine included) because the bottom line is John & Jane made this agreement long before Mary and new baby came into the picture Jane & John aren't here asking us & probably don't give a hoot what any of us think or suggest. Mary now has to decide am I better off with John or without John ?

So true!

 

[cm8]

I think the arrangement between John and Jane worked out fine for everyone when they were divorced. But now that John has remarried and started a second family, I think it's time to re-evaluate the situation. Things change, people grow and move on. I think Mary should have had this whole thing hammered out before she married John, but it's too late for that. I think if I were Mary, I would want the house sold and then John and Jane split the money and everyone move on. Jane pays her own way, and John and Mary get a house and pay there own way. Or, if they can agree that one buys the other one out. What is the divorce agreement, does John pay child support/alimony in addition to the half rent?

 

[Skywalker]

I believe you are correct, however, Mary doesn't seem concerned about that...she is ready to walk over this because she is so concerned about future inheritances being inequitable.

I am thankful for everyone's views but something like this I just have to correct. (It's my cousin and I love her after all). She is not "ready to walk over this because she is so concerned about future inheritances being inequitable."

No. It's about the fact that she feels he's putting Jane and her kids above - way above - his new family. That is what she's willing to walk over. It started as this issue and the more he resisted any kind of change or compromise the bigger it got for her - on an emotional level that something is not right here.

I wish John would be willing to try some of the compromises suggested here...but he won't

 

[wilma-bride]

I probably should have read all the replies before posting but thought I would post my gut reaction which is 'Why would your cousin have married John and had a child with him' before rectifying a situation that she clearly is so completley unhappy about In my opinion, it's a risky situation anyway because people's lives will eventually move on. I don't actually understand why John and Jane don't sell up which would free up capital for them both to buy something of their own hence giving your cousin (John's new wife) the opportunity to buy a place with her new husband.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I am thankful for everyone's views but something like this I just have to correct. (It's my cousin and I love her after all). She is not "ready to walk over this because she is so concerned about future inheritances being inequitable."

No. It's about the fact that she feels he's putting Jane and her kids above - way above - his new family. That is what she's willing to walk over. It started as this issue and the more he resisted any kind of change or compromise the bigger it got for her - on an emotional level that something is not right here.

I wish John would be willing to try some of the compromises suggested here...but he won't

And why should he? He and Jane had this figured out and amicably agreed to LONG before Mary entered the picture. Why should he go back to paying on a mortgage when he's already done paying and he only has to pay 1/2 the rent on his ex-wife's apartment? (Which I'll presume is much, MUCH cheaper than paying a mortgage on a house) He'd be a fool to give up something he's worked so hard to set in place. I sure as heck wouldn't give up a paid off residence. Especially not in these economic times.

Like it or not, John and Jane are going to be tied together for the rest of their lives because of their children. There is no changing that. It sounds like they split with a business agreement where John can stay in the house, raise the children and he only has to contribute to 1/2 of Jane's rent. That's THEIR agreement regardless of how fair and balanced or unfair and unbalanced anyone here thinks it is.

Obviously John still feels its fair and balanced because he's not entertaining ANY thoughts about changing it.

Mary knew all this going in and she chose to continue on this path. She wasn't forced to marry John, she chose to do so. And while Mary (and others) may see Mary and John having a child as changing the situation, obviously John and Jane do not. Now Mary will have to choose again and this choice will likely have her paying more money out of pocket because she's going to be giving up free room and board.

I can feel sorry for Mary that she chose this path, but I still don't feel that what she's trying to get Jane and John to give up is right. If Mary's unhappy in the situation she chose, then Mary needs to consider leaving the situation.

 

[wdwfan16]

I am thankful for everyone's views but something like this I just have to correct. (It's my cousin and I love her after all). She is not "ready to walk over this because she is so concerned about future inheritances being inequitable."

No. It's about the fact that she feels he's putting Jane and her kids above - way above - his new family. That is what she's willing to walk over. It started as this issue and the more he resisted any kind of change or compromise the bigger it got for her - on an emotional level that something is not right here.

John is not putting Jane and their kids ahead he is just honoring the agreement that they both had. If Mary divorces he next complain will be that John lives with his other boys and only sees THEIR child every other weekend. And guess why that is? Because Mary wanted the rules changed to suit only her. Their son is not suffering in the situation as it is. Mary does not want this house she wants her house. Mary does not like the money is not even. Mary does not like to clean or maintain this house even when she lives there for free.

I wish John would be willing to try some of the compromises suggested here...but he won't

I wish Mary would just honor the situation that she married into.

 

[Mickey Fliers]

I love all this "Mary knew what she was getting in to", "Mary should honor the situation she married in to". Seriously, is everyone's lives so perfect and black and white? I know mine isn't. People change, people grow, kids grow up, people get wiser. Maybe we should be saying "John should have thought about this before asking another woman to be a party in this crazy divorce game". I am certainly not the same woman I was 15 years ago and thankfully my DH and I have grown together through that time, rather than be rigid and uncompromising.

It is simple, family dynamics have changed and John and Jane's divorce agreement (which was seriously whacked and had no long term vision) is no longer working for all parties involved. John needs to be willing to make a new agreement or risk ripping apart another marriage.

 

[Jcricket Fan]

Here is another thought on this issue I will toss out with all the other posts:

It is not about the house. Yes, on the surface it is but the deeper issue is not about the house.

Mary married John knowing that she was uncomfortable with the situation set up by John and Jane in their divorce but as so many of us do, Mary hoped that situation would one day change.....Mary could change John's mind about the connection he shared with his ex wife that goes deeper then just the kids.

That day, that change hasn't come. John and Jane are divorced for a reason and yet they are not as divorced as they could be. Yes, there are kids involved but John & Jane are far too connected to be good for John & Mary's marriage. For others this set up may work but for Mary it doesn't.

It's not about the house. It is about the connections that continue between John & Jane that go deeper than the children and Mary knows this (on a gut level she senses something) and Mary wants this to be different and it may never be. Mary needs to decide if she can live with this situation she one day hoped would change.

Even having her own child with John has not severed the deeper ties John shares with Jane his ex-wife so yes Mary has some decisions to make because its really not about the house.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Here is another thought on this issue I will toss out with all the other posts:

It is not about the house. Yes, on the surface it is but the deeper issue is not about the house.

Mary married John knowing that she was uncomfortable with the situation set up by John and Jane in their divorce but as so many of us do, Mary hoped that situation would one day change.....Mary could change John's mind about the connection he shared with his ex wife that goes deeper then just the kids.

That day, that change hasn't come. John and Jane are divorced for a reason and yet they are not as divorced as they could be. Yes, there are kids involved but John & Jane are far too connected to be good for John & Mary's marriage. For others this set up may work but for Mary it doesn't.

It's not about the house. It is about the connections that continue between John & Jane that go deeper than the children and Mary knows this (on a gut level she senses something) and Mary wants this to be different and it may never be. Mary needs to decide if she can live with this situation she one day hoped would change.

Even having her own child with John has not severed the deeper ties John shares with Jane his ex-wife so yes Mary has some decisions to make because its really not about the house.

To me it seems like a poor business plan between John and Jane.

Instead of selling the home for whatever reason, Jane and John came up with a workable solution for the kids.

I think Mary thought she could live under those terms however once she had a child her feelings changed and she wants a change.

I think taking out a life insurance policy is a good compromise. In the event of her dh's death she would be compensated and be able to purchase her own home.

I think it is about the house. I could not live in that house either, sorry. Essentially it is not your house. I would feel like a "guest". So yes you are right that it does cut off a level of connection between them. Instead it is shared by another woman.

I do understand her frustration, but she married a man who was married previously and agreed to things. It is irritating to me that she agreed to the terms in the first place. That is what I don't understand.

 

[Skywalker]

And while Mary (and others) may see Mary and John having a child as changing the situation, obviously John and Jane do not....

If Mary's unhappy in the situation she chose, then Mary needs to consider leaving the situation.

Snipping two parts of your post.

As for the first part, that is part of the problem the whole mentality of it feels like "John & Jane vs. Mary" instead of as it should be Mary and John as the team.

Also, to your second part..she is.

 

[LuvOrlando]

If I were the new wife i would start looking for a new home and leaving my choices on his pillow. I would tell John that if he can pay for his ex wife to have her own apartment he should have no problem paying for his new wife to have her own place too. Security is important. Has it ever occurred to him that if he died his new wife and child could easily be kicked out on to the street? If he wouldn't budge I would absolutely walk away and take my alimony and whatever division of assets are allowable by the courts. I am pretty sure any half decent divorce lawyer could tear this guy apart based on how he is treating his old vs new wife. It's just not right. What a mess. I'd take being ex wife number 2 in my own house over being the present wife living in and caring for ex wife number 1's home and assets any day of the week... no man on earth is worth that & I don't care who he is.

 

[JesB]

I love all this "Mary knew what she was getting in to", "Mary should honor the situation she married in to". Seriously, is everyone's lives so perfect and black and white? I know mine isn't. People change, people grow, kids grow up, people get wiser. Maybe we should be saying "John should have thought about this before asking another woman to be a party in this crazy divorce game". I am certainly not the same woman I was 15 years ago and thankfully my DH and I have grown together through that time, rather than be rigid and uncompromising.

It is simple, family dynamics have changed and John and Jane's divorce agreement (which was seriously whacked and had no long term vision) is no longer working for all parties involved. John needs to be willing to make a new agreement or risk ripping apart another marriage.

Well said.

 

[Irin997]

Wow, I've read through the whole thread and it is amazing how many people are only thinking from Jane's POV and not Mary's. ASIDE from the fact that she should have thought all of this through, there is a huge issue of how John treats family #1 vs family #2. There is ZERO compromise from John & Jane. Ideally, the house should be sold and assets split between the two to be done with whatever (left to the boys in family #1 if that's what they want).

John is putting family #1 way above family #2. Thinking like Mary, I would feel like all he is concerned about is the kids from his first marriage and that HE is not willing to find a decent compromise on the whole situation for his current family. He doesn't seem to care that if something happens to him, his current wife and child have no where to live. He doesn't seem to care that this really upsets Mary.

If I were Mary, I'd be incredibly upset and hurt too. I'm taking care of 3 children, 2 of which are from another woman, in HER house, and knowing that if something happens I have no where to go but my parent's house.

 

[auntie]

Your cousin shouldn't have to live in another womans house, with clearly no expectation that it will ever be hers. Should she have known this before she married John. Sure. Only she didn't, but she does now. Still doesn't make what John's doing right. He needs to rethink his priorities. His life has changed. What worked then..doesn't now. So you either make changes, or you move on from that. Which unfortunately, may be what your cousin has to do. At least she should do it NOW..while both she and her child are young. Not drag this out for years, expecting her husband to change his mind. If he isn't willing to re-evaluate his former arrangement based on his new situation..then your cousin needs to accept that, and do what she needs to do for her and her child.

On a side note..the arrangement was weird to begin with. Why would one assume they'd be living in the same home their entire lives. Anything could happen where people would choose to move on. Also..while they say the arrangement was to provide for their children after their deaths. That could also could have been done by selling or even buying one another out of the house.
I think that the arrangement was more of a bond between John and Jane, than providing for their kids. Just my opinion...and we all know what's thats worth!

 

[Praying Colonel]

As I read posts saying that John should change, or it's reasonable to expect that Mary would change even after entering into this marriage knowing what was up, it reminds me of the old saying:

"Women marry men hoping they'll change and they don't. Men marry women hoping they won't change and they do."

 

[lillygator]

John and Jane are WAY too connected...they do not need to have any relationship on this level to parent their children. I would put my foot down.

 

[Bluestars]

I think the house should be sold and the money split equally between John and his ex. John and Mary can purchase a house in both of their names and go on with their lives. The ex can pay her own rent and go on with hers. They can each set up wills to leave whatever they want to their own kids.

I don't think I would be happy being married to someone, having his child, paying family bills, and my name not being on the house.

 

[RachelEllen]

My answer is of course colored by my own perspective as someone married to a man who was previously married and had a child, but I think the situation does need to change.

1) John's priority needs to be his current wife and all his children. The situation with the house is unworkable in the longterm. I know he made plans with his former wife. But she is now his former wife. He needs to man up and make a workable solution with his actual wife. Either buy out his former wife's portion of the house or sell the house. Or, leave the house, rent it out and split the proceeds. It does not matter what his agreement was with his former wife. When he got married, that changed. (What if his former wife got remarried? Or just moved in with someone? Would she still expect support with half her rent? That would be nuts and they would have to deal with the house then!)

2) I wish the words, "well you knew what you were getting into" were never spoken. You hear it all the time as a stepmom and it's just rediculous. We all, for the most part, do the best we can. We all grow and change. Can every person out there say that they knew exactly what they were getting into with parenthood? Why do we have so much sympathy for the difficulties of parents but the difficulties of step-parents are so often dismissed with : Well, you knew what you were getting into.

3) You get the inheritance of your parents when they die. Full stop. No one should be counting on anything sooner. John now has three kids and a wife. He should figure out a way that his estate passes fairly to all three kids. Personally, I feel like it should pass first to his current wife and then to the three kids, but that reflects my own situation (very short first marriage and my contributing substantially to current marriage's joint assets - plus if my husband passes first I feel a unshakeable moral obligation to either help support DSS (if he is still a minor) and leave my estate equally between him and my DD)

But, regardless, the kid's estate should be a nonconsideration, IMO, until the day the will is read. What if dad gets very ill and needs extended medical care? What if the new child was born with expensive medical needs? What if John decides he's had enough of work and wants to cruise to Tahiti. Until he dies, it is his (and his current wife's) money! You should come into a marriage with all your assets, talents, and effort towards building your joint life together. If you suddenly get a younger full sibling, your inheritance is going to change. No difference with getting a younger half sibling.

All this taken together, John needs to separate financially from his former wife in all ways except for ongoing expenses related to their children.