WWYD-- Cracked Foundation in a New Home??

[ekatiel]

Our LENNAR home is only 4 years old and has a crack in the foundation running from one end of the house to the other. The crack has cracked tiles on our fireplace and in our laundry room and runs into our garage. We had Lennar come out and look at in January. The lady spent 5 minutes in the house, and later sent us a report that it "wasn't a structural issue at this time" and "if we wanted to pursue the matter further" we would need hire a strucutural engineer (on our dime) to come out and do a report, then fax that report to Lennar. Lennar then would send out their own structural engineer AND if the two reports matched, THEN Lennar would pay to have the foundation fixed and refund the cost of the structural engineer. BUT if the reports did not match, then Lennar would do nothing. We called around to several structural engineers, and it was going to cost about $500 to have a structural engineer come out. So, we've done nothing for the past few months, but now we really would like to put our house on the market within the next year (DS starts kinder in Fall 2010, and we'd like to be in a different school district).

So, I decided to try and get the ball rolling again with the foundation problems. I've called a few foundation companies to ask them to come out and do a free estimate-- several of them won't even come out to see our house b/c "we need to deal with the builder"-- one said he'd come, but would charge us a $95 fee (even though the website says they give free estimates) b/c once again, we need to deal with the builder. I did finally get two companies to agree to come out and give us a free estimate. I also called Lennar today and griped at them. Someone is supposed to call me back. Does anyone have any advice??? I just don't see how we're going to be able to sell our house with a crack in the slab, especially if we've done nothing to fix it. I'm just SO frustrated!!! What should I do next? --Katie

 

[jaminmd]

Our LENNAR home is only 4 years old and has a crack in the foundation running from one end of the house to the other. The crack has cracked tiles on our fireplace and in our laundry room and runs into our garage. We had Lennar come out and look at in January. The lady spent 5 minutes in the house, and later sent us a report that it "wasn't a structural issue at this time" and "if we wanted to pursue the matter further" we would need hire a strucutural engineer (on our dime) to come out and do a report, then fax that report to Lennar. Lennar then would send out their own structural engineer AND if the two reports matched, THEN Lennar would pay to have the foundation fixed and refund the cost of the structural engineer. BUT if the reports did not match, then Lennar would do nothing. We called around to several structural engineers, and it was going to cost about $500 to have a structural engineer come out. So, we've done nothing for the past few months, but now we really would like to put our house on the market within the next year (DS starts kinder in Fall 2010, and we'd like to be in a different school district).

So, I decided to try and get the ball rolling again with the foundation problems. I've called a few foundation companies to ask them to come out and do a free estimate-- several of them won't even come out to see our house b/c "we need to deal with the builder"-- one said he'd come, but would charge us a $95 fee (even though the website says they give free estimates) b/c once again, we need to deal with the builder. I did finally get two companies to agree to come out and give us a free estimate. I also called Lennar today and griped at them. Someone is supposed to call me back. Does anyone have any advice??? I just don't see how we're going to be able to sell our house with a crack in the slab, especially if we've done nothing to fix it. I'm just SO frustrated!!! What should I do next? --Katie

If I were in your situation, I would most definitely pay for a structural engineer (maybe even two). They will be able to determine the extent of the damage & the best way to fix it. You may wind up needing a lawyer as well. Lennar will try to ***** you, so don't play nice with this.

In this housing market, I'd pass on a house with foundation problems in a heartbeat. Also, if you do nothing and sell the house without disclosing it to the new buyers, they can turn around & sue you. Good luck.

 

[AlternateEgo]

I would call your insurance agent....

 

[secretpantssam]

I'd pay the $95 to get it checked by a professional. And as a previous poster said, maybe even have more than one structural engineer come out. That way Lennar can't say one guy was wrong or bias. This crack would be a huge problem for any potential buyers, so i think it would be worth the money to get the proof that Lennar needs to fix it.

 

[princessmom29]

I would be contacting a structural enginer and an attorney. They are trying to pull one over one you! A foundation crack will always become a structural issue over time and they are just biding their time untill they are no longer responsible for having it fixed. I highly doubt you will be able to sell it without it being fixed. Every home inspector who looks at it will say it needs to be fixed, and I don't think a mortgage company will lend on a house with an unrepaired foundation crack!

 

[poohfriend77]

What a nightmare! This happened to my neighbors in their 4.5-year-old house. Do you live at the end of a street or cul-de-sac? There house is on a N/S house, but a E/W street dead ends right in front of their driveway. They finally determined that the E/W street did not have the required expansion gaps, so basically the street expanded and pushed on their driveway, which pushed on and cracked their foundation.

They paid the engineers and a lawyer out of pocket, but they are finally being reimbursed, partially from the builder/concrete co. and partially from the city/developer who put the street in.

I say go for it, the sooner the better. There's a good chance you'll get your money back later, but foundation damage should really be checked out ASAP.

 

[disneyhand]

Are you in a developement? Check with your neighbors, they may have the same problem too. Here in So Cal it seems like if 1 house has a cracked foundation so do many others. There would be strength and support in numbers.

 

[TaraPA]

Before you panic - it may not be that big of a deal. I'm not saying it's not, but actually foundation cracks are very common - and not all of them lead to structural compromise. I don't know anything about building on a slab - so that may be a whole other ballgame.

We have a basement with 11-foot high ceilings, and then the house on top of that. We have a large foundation crack that starts in the basement & goes right up to the 3rd floor - it actually cracked the drywall on the 1st floor, and the harwood floor separated a fraction at this spot as well. I panicked. I called the builder who assured me this is much more common than people think, but he came right out to check it. He said a house that doesn't ever "settle in" after a year or so is uncommon. He had an engineer come out & look at it (at their cost) who gave us a report stating that "although the crack is detrimentally unpleaseant esthetically (try repeating that 5 times fast) it represents no structural damage to the house or foundation." Our builder fixed the drywall crack, and had the hardwood company come & put some sort of putty between the floor boards that had separated. That was 3 years ago & there's been no more cracking or settling since.

Fast forward to this past year when we had a few contractors in & out to give estimates to finish the basement. Every one said the same thing about the crack, looks worse than it is. One was also a licensed building inspector so we asked him to check it out, in case we'd have issues with it when finishing the basement, or for inspections for a loan, appraisal, etc. His report came back free & clear as well.

So while you may be scared, not all foundation cracks turn out badly!!! Good luck to you, I know you must be frustrated.

 

[CyndiLooWho]

If your slab is cracking, it definitely needs a structural engineer to look at it, and I would pay $1000 to have it looked at by 2 independent parties. It's just too easy for that to become a major issue.

We purchased a home in 2008 that had a repaired crack in the basement wall. It was fully disclosed by the seller and we can easily see it from the inside and the outside. It has been fully repaired by the builder (house is 5 yrs old) and we have another 5 yrs on the warranty (it transfers; I checked before we bought). We had no problems with the mortgage company.

I do intend to have a structural engineer check it out this year, but I also don't expect that it will be an issue, even when it's time to sell the house. Many of the epoxies that are used to take care of basement cracks are actually stronger than the concrete blocks or poured concrete used to construct them. We will provide a new report from a structural engineer with the disclosure whenever we sell, and that should take care of it.

But that's a basement, not a cracked slab. you have much more potential for structural issues with a cracked slab than with a basement wall.

 

[princessmom29]

Before you panic - it may not be that big of a deal. I'm not saying it's not, but actually foundation cracks are very common - and not all of them lead to structural compromise. I don't know anything about building on a slab - so that may be a whole other ballgame.

We have a basement with 11-foot high ceilings, and then the house on top of that. We have a large foundation crack that starts in the basement & goes right up to the 3rd floor - it actually cracked the drywall on the 1st floor, and the harwood floor separated a fraction at this spot as well. I panicked. I called the builder who assured me this is much more common than people think, but he came right out to check it. He said a house that doesn't ever "settle in" after a year or so is uncommon. He had an engineer come out & look at it (at their cost) who gave us a report stating that "although the crack is detrimentally unpleaseant esthetically (try repeating that 5 times fast) it represents no structural damage to the house or foundation." Our builder fixed the drywall crack, and had the hardwood company come & put some sort of putty between the floor boards that had separated. That was 3 years ago & there's been no more cracking or settling since.

Fast forward to this past year when we had a few contractors in & out to give estimates to finish the basement. Every one said the same thing about the crack, looks worse than it is. One was also a licensed building inspector so we asked him to check it out, in case we'd have issues with it when finishing the basement, or for inspections for a loan, appraisal, etc. His report came back free & clear as well.

So while you may be scared, not all foundation cracks turn out badly!!! Good luck to you, I know you must be frustrated.

You are right it is a dcompletely different ballgame when you are up off the slab. A slab built haouse is always going to develop structural problems from a foundation crack, especally one that runs the entire length of the house like the op is describing.

 

[jaminmd]

Before you panic - it may not be that big of a deal. I'm not saying it's not, but actually foundation cracks are very common - and not all of them lead to structural compromise. I don't know anything about building on a slab - so that may be a whole other ballgame.

We have a basement with 11-foot high ceilings, and then the house on top of that. We have a large foundation crack that starts in the basement & goes right up to the 3rd floor - it actually cracked the drywall on the 1st floor, and the harwood floor separated a fraction at this spot as well. I panicked. I called the builder who assured me this is much more common than people think, but he came right out to check it. He said a house that doesn't ever "settle in" after a year or so is uncommon. He had an engineer come out & look at it (at their cost) who gave us a report stating that "although the crack is detrimentally unpleaseant esthetically (try repeating that 5 times fast) it represents no structural damage to the house or foundation." Our builder fixed the drywall crack, and had the hardwood company come & put some sort of putty between the floor boards that had separated. That was 3 years ago & there's been no more cracking or settling since.

Fast forward to this past year when we had a few contractors in & out to give estimates to finish the basement. Every one said the same thing about the crack, looks worse than it is. One was also a licensed building inspector so we asked him to check it out, in case we'd have issues with it when finishing the basement, or for inspections for a loan, appraisal, etc. His report came back free & clear as well.

So while you may be scared, not all foundation cracks turn out badly!!! Good luck to you, I know you must be frustrated.

Fortunately everything worked out well. However, the builder hiring their own engineer is a conflict of interest. An independent evaluation would avoid that.

 

[TaraPA]

I agree we could have hired our own engineer but we completely trust our builder. They've been around a long time and have a great reputation, and have many satisfied customers (us included). Had there been any problems with them or had we gotten any negative feedback when researching them you bet we would have had our own inspection, or had a 2nd opinion.

We don't have slabs in this area so I guess the OP is having more of a major issue. Is building on slabs done for geographic reasons- meaning near the coast line, below sea level, etc. or is it just a matter of preference? We're in the NE & I don't know of anyone around here ever building on a slab (everyone has a dug out basement). But I hear them talk about it all the time on HGTV.

 

[ekatiel]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It just makes me furious that DH and I are going have to pay $500+ OOP for a structural engineer, and then Lennar is going to hire their own anyways-- and then if their reports don't agree, we're out of luck, and $500 poorer!! I'm gonna ride Lennar about this for a couple of weeks and see if I can get them to pay for the engineer. I just feel "stuck" in our house right now! UGH! Thanks for letting me vent! --Katie

 

[CyndiLooWho]

We don't have slabs in this area so I guess the OP is having more of a major issue. Is building on slabs done for geographic reasons- meaning near the coast line, below sea level, etc. or is it just a matter of preference? We're in the NE & I don't know of anyone around here ever building on a slab (everyone has a dug out basement). But I hear them talk about it all the time on HGTV.

There are parts of the country where a basement is not an option b/c of the water table (FL) or where it's simply cheaper to build a house w/o a basement b/c the land is flat (IN). In KY, if your house is on a hill, it has a basement, if it is not, it's on a slab. Slabs are cheaper to build than a crawlspace foundation and much quicker to build as well.

We have lived on both types of foundations, and they each have their own problems. But a cracked slab is a major problem. If the crack extends all the way across the slab, the house can actually settle 2 different directions and/or may actually split, tearing the entire structure apart.

OP - Your comment about Lennar's assessment agreeing with your engineer's inspection is exactly why I suggested getting a second opinion if your engineer finds problems. Lennar will have problems if they disagree with 2 independent assessments v. their "pet" experts opinion. It will give you a better leg on getting the work done at their expense.

 

[Took]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It just makes me furious that DH and I are going have to pay $500+ OOP for a structural engineer, and then Lennar is going to hire their own anyways-- and then if their reports don't agree, we're out of luck, and $500 poorer!! I'm gonna ride Lennar about this for a couple of weeks and see if I can get them to pay for the engineer. I just feel "stuck" in our house right now! UGH! Thanks for letting me vent! --Katie

Contact a lawyer first and have him/her read your original building contract. You want a lawyer who specializes in contract law and who can tell you exactly what your rights are in the state in which you are living.

Then call the engineers.

 

[ekatiel]

There are parts of the country where a basement is not an option b/c of the water table (FL).

This is exactly right-- we live in Houston-- there is no such thing as a basement here-- if you dig down a few feet, you hit water. --Katie

 

[bumbershoot]

They finally determined that the E/W street did not have the required expansion gaps, so basically the street expanded and pushed on their driveway, which pushed on and cracked their foundation.

They paid the engineers and a lawyer out of pocket, but they are finally being reimbursed, partially from the builder/concrete co. and partially from the city/developer who put the street in.

That is *really* interesting. We were renting a brand new townhouse for a year, and by the time we left (for many reasons) the owners of the 4 townhouses (which were actually condos, they each found out at closing when the condo paperwork was given to them) were getting ready to sue the builder.

The builder usually makes fancy, high-end homes then sells them, but for some reason he decided to make some cheaper places, and he did an *awful* job. I saw his truck the other day, and even though I don't live there anymore and never owned one of them, I wanted to go slap him.

Since he built the street (a dead end) too, I might mention that to our landlady (same owner, different place) if they are still in the court process with him; maybe they messed up literally from under the ground up?


OP, good luck!!!!!

 

[TaraPA]

Thanks for the slab/crawlspace info. Now I know!

OMG if I didn't have a basement - where would I put all my JUNK?!?!?!

 

[msmayor]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It just makes me furious that DH and I are going have to pay $500+ OOP for a structural engineer, and then Lennar is going to hire their own anyways-- and then if their reports don't agree, we're out of luck, and $500 poorer!! I'm gonna ride Lennar about this for a couple of weeks and see if I can get them to pay for the engineer. I just feel "stuck" in our house right now! UGH! Thanks for letting me vent! --Katie

For most folks, your house is literally the most significant investment you have. Whether the reports 'agree' or not, spending $500 to diagnose a problem is a drop in the bucket compared to what can happen if you DON'T spend that money. The problems for you down the road can snowball into something much worse.

Yes, you ARE indeed stuck in that house until you do something about the crack. Spend the money and find out. Protect your asset.

 

[DISdreamin']

Ummm...have you done an internet search on the builder? Mine came up with the following, just for a sampling:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/105/ripoff0105391.htm

http://lennarhomesdefect.tripod.com/

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/shoddy-construction-c101421.html

http://www.hobb.org/content/view/2186/476/

http://www.searchhutto.com/LD/Lennar-complaints-issues

http://www.complaints.com/directory/2005/january/5/35.htm

Not sure how many of these are duplicates, there appear to be a least a few similar issues out there. Some do appear to have been resolved, though, so it seems there is hope. Good luck!