WWYD - Concern over a potential Catholic teacher and morality...

[Ember]

I'm not sure how other Catholic school districts work, but in ours there is a morality clause written right into the contract. It basically says you have to lead a very moral life, can't live with someone prior to marriage, can't be seen to be supporting issues the church is against, etc. I am NOT debating the right or wrong of this clause here, just giving an outline of it. I am not with the Catholic board, but I am familiar with the clause as it has been the cause of termination for a few teachers I know. (They now happily work for various public boards.)

Anyway, I have an acquaintance / past friend (drifted apart a long time ago) who has just graduated and had been shortlisted for a job with the Catholic school board. She has asked to use me as a reference both as a past employee when I was her manager at a retail store several years ago and as an educator.

My issue is that I know for a fact that she does not take the morality issue seriously. There are photos up on her facebook page of her drinking, dancing with male strippers, etc. A few of them would get her fired on the spot if the board ever saw them. I also know that when she started her education degree she began attending church for the sole purpose of getting a recommendation from a priest (also a requirement of being employed by the Catholic board). I know this because she said it several times. She was quite proud of herself for "opening up all the extra jobs."

I am not religious, but I do respect religion. If I were a parent who wanted their child in a Catholic system I would hope they were being taught by teachers who took the morality of their job seriously.

Were she applying to a public board, without the morality clause in place, I would have no issue recommending her. I'm just not sure what to do in this case. Do I recommend her anyway, knowing there is a potential problem? Do I consider her past work performance and comment just on this, leaving my knowledge of the morality issue out of it completely? Do I say I don't feel comfortable recommending her at all?

What would you do?

 

[georgina]

My sister taught at a Catholic school while she was a member of the Unitarian church. I believe she was Ok in her contract that she would not say anything against Catholic teaching. Drinking is not necessarily against Catholic teaching. Personally, I would answer the questions asked in the reference form. Was she a good employee? Do you think she would be a good teacher? If they ask you to comment on her morals, you'll have to use your judgment and conscience. They can probably find her facebook page if they want to see it.

 

[Saphire]

Do I consider her past work performance and comment just on this, leaving my knowledge of the morality issue out of it completely? Do I say I don't feel comfortable recommending her at all?

What would you do?

I would only comment on her past work experience and leave it at that. However, if they ask you about character/moral issues, I would answer honestly, delicately and I would be brief. If this is a written recommendation it will be much easier, but I can see how a verbal discussion could get tricky.

 

[dizluvah]

I would decline to provide a reference.

 

[PlainJane]

My sister taught at a Catholic school while she was a member of the Unitarian church. I believe she was Ok in her contract that she would not say anything against Catholic teaching. Drinking is not necessarily against Catholic teaching. Personally, I would answer the questions asked in the reference form. Was she a good employee? Do you think she would be a good teacher? If they ask you to comment on her morals, you'll have to use your judgment and conscience. They can probably find her facebook page if they want to see it.

Drinking is one thing, male strippers is crossing another line. If there is a morality clause and she's breaking it, I wouldn't recommend her. My friend is a math teacher at a really strict Baptist school he respects all the rules, even the ones that don't go against his conscience. He likes working there, and that just goes with the territory.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I know my answer will not be totally on-track to what you are asking, but I just wanted to say that both my children attend Catholic School and both have lost the best teachers ever to the "clause". One got pregnant a month before her wedding and the other could not get married in a Catholic church because he did not get an annulment from his first marriage. If your friend is a great teacher, why not just focus on those facts as I would hate for children to miss out on a great teacher. (I highly doubt that strippers would make it into her class lessons)

 

[Cool-Beans]

If she were a current friend, it'd be a lot trickier. But with an ex-friend, simply do the Nancy Reagan thing. Just say no.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Almost no children that I know that attend Catholic schools do so for religious reasons. I would provide a reference, but I would not lie for her. That said, if asked moral questions about anyone in a reference meeting, I would say that their morals are none of my business...

 

[DawnCt1]

I would call her and tell her that the morality clause is taken very seriously, and until she sanitizes her Facebook, you will not give her a recommendation. If she wants the job she will do it. If she doesn't, tell her that you will not put your reputation on the line with a internet full of contradictory information.

 

[Nolcrest]

If I felt comfortable giving a positive reference on her prior employment with you I would probably give the reference.

I would stick with my knowledge of her employment, or actual experience I had with her if asked.

I personally wouldn't volunteer the Facebook info, they could always look that up themselves if they were that interested.

In the meantime, she should set her Facebook to private.

 

[Camicar]

In thinking about this, I guess what it comes down to for me is that I would, unlike the OP, be making a decision about what I kept quiet based upon the fact that I do not approve of morality clauses that judge on on personal life activities that have nothing to do with job performance. I am vehemently against them on principle and in practice, I've seen such morality clauses used as an excuse for a witch hunt.

 

[NMAmy]

I would think it's up to her possible future employers to worry about her morality, not you. What kind of reference would you give her if she was applying to a non-religious institution? You're a reference for her previous work experience, correct? Did she steal? Cheat people? Lie? I'm guessing her stripper watching and drinking didn't effect her job performance.

If it were me, I'd give her a reference focusing on her job performance only. Those are the only questions that I will answer when called for a reference on a former employee. It's not for me to comment on their personal life.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, I am not sure that there is a clear right or wrong answer.

I would advise that you do what you feel comfortable with.

While I suppose I am not a fan of morality clauses... Based on your comments (below) there is something about the way you described this persons attitudes and methods in obtaining a job with a religious school that kind of bother me.

My issue is that I know for a fact that she does not take the morality issue seriously. .... I also know that when she started her education degree she began attending church for the sole purpose of getting a recommendation from a priest (also a requirement of being employed by the Catholic board). I know this because she said it several times. She was quite proud of herself for "opening up all the extra jobs."

I am not sure I would want to support that.

Really, how would one go about making negative statements about another person's morality on a job recommendation Seriously, what do you do... say, "check out her myspace page"???

One would think that any school would do an internet search before hiring.
If not, then that is their negligence.

For me, I would decide if I, personally, were comfortable giving a positive recommendation to this particular school, or would not give a recommendation at all.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I would not feel comfortable providing her with a reference. You have stated that you know she is doing things that directly violate part of her contract were you hired. You know full well she does not intend to honor her contract and I feel that in that situation providing a reference would be dishonest. There have actually been lawsuits when people have provided references and it turned out the person involved violated their contract and/or engaged in illegal activities. It was argued in these types of suits that the person providing the references hould have known or did know and by omitting that information essentially lied. This is why even though I was a model Cast Member for Disney I can never get a reference from them.

Not only would the OP be recommending a person whom she knows has no intention of fulfilling each part of the contract, she is opening herself up to scandal as well. Are you a well respected person in this church? If there were some kind of scandal and this was discovered and it came to light that you had prior knowledge, you can kiss your reputation good bye. It doesn't matter whether you agree with the morality cause or not. If you sign the contract you are agreeing abide by all aspects of it. I could never in good conscience recommend a person I knew would not abide by their contract. If they don't like it, they should find a job elsewhere.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Is she applying for your church school? Do you have kids in the school where she would be working?

 

[Bluestars]

I would not give the recommendation. If I knew that person would be violating the morality clause, I don't think I could recommend them for a job at a religious school.

My kids have attended a religious school. If there is a morality agreement, then I would hope the teachers would abide by it. Although I am no saint, I do feel better knowing the teachers have similar morals as I do.

I don't know why someone would want to agree to a morality code that they have no intention of honoring. It would not be fun to have to lie and hide things just to keep a job. She would probably be happier working where there isn't such a strict morality clause.

 

[Ember]

I know my answer will not be totally on-track to what you are asking, but I just wanted to say that both my children attend Catholic School and both have lost the best teachers ever to the "clause". One got pregnant a month before her wedding and the other could not get married in a Catholic church because he did not get an annulment from his first marriage. If your friend is a great teacher, why not just focus on those facts as I would hate for children to miss out on a great teacher. (I highly doubt that strippers would make it into her class lessons)

Thank you for this reply, I appreciate the opinion of a parent on this one.

In thinking about this, I guess what it comes down to for me is that I would, unlike the OP, be making a decision about what I kept quiet based upon the fact that I do not approve of morality clauses that judge on on personal life activities that have nothing to do with job performance. I am vehemently against them on principle and in practice, I've seen such morality clauses used as an excuse for a witch hunt.

I am against them, too. But that is not the issue. I would never choose to work for the Catholic board. I think if you are making the choice to accept employment where there is a known morality issue then you choose to abide by it. The simple solution to not agreeing with a morality clause, is not to work for an employer that insists on one.

Really, how would one go about making negative statements about another person's morality on a job recommendation Seriously, what do you do... say, "check out her myspace page"???

One would think that any school would do an internet search before hiring.
If not, then that is their negligence.

This is a good point.

There have actually been lawsuits when people have provided references and it turned out the person involved violated their contract and/or engaged in illegal activities. It was argued in these types of suits that the person providing the references hould have known or did know and by omitting that information essentially lied. This is why even though I was a model Cast Member for Disney I can never get a reference from them.

Not only would the OP be recommending a person whom she knows has no intention of fulfilling each part of the contract, she is opening herself up to scandal as well. Are you a well respected person in this church? If there were some kind of scandal and this was discovered and it came to light that you had prior knowledge, you can kiss your reputation good bye. It doesn't matter whether you agree with the morality cause or not. If you sign the contract you are agreeing abide by all aspects of it. I could never in good conscience recommend a person I knew would not abide by their contract. If they don't like it, they should find a job elsewhere.

I wasn't aware there could be a legal issue that could arise, I have never heard of such a thing! That's definitely something to consider.

I am not religious, I work for a public board. I'm just well aware of the issues other teachers have had when it comes to the morality clause. I agree with you about abiding by your contract, though.

I think in this case I may just decline from providing a reference. It may be the "easy" way out, but I think it's the option I feel most comfortable with.

 

[FayeW]

Here's the thing...drinking and watching male strippers is not against the law (assuming she is of legal age to do so). The morality clause you are concerned about should be an issue ONLY for future behaviour, after employment. What is immoral to the Catholic Church may not be immoral to anyone else, therefore, she should only be judged on her morality, as dictated by the Catholic Church, once she actually signs an employment contract.

You know, the old "yet he who is without sin cast the first stone", and all that. They do offer confession for a reason, don't they?

Sometimes morality and the Catholic Church are contradictory terms. My husband went to school in a province where the schools were segregated not only by religion, but by gender as well. He went to Catholic Boys school, and was taught by the Christian Brothers. Google them. 'Nuff said.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Part of the penitential rite is that you are supposed to be genuinely repentant of your actions. This person has made numerous comments about how the only reason they started going to church was to get a recommendation to open up jobs. That just seems blatantly dishonest to me. It also sounds like this person (from the limited information) does not have the intention of abiding by the contract.

If I truly felt that the person was repentant of their behavior, or at least was planning to abide by the contract (and remove the questionable content from their Facebook page) then I would recommend them.

That to me is the issue, the fact that they are not going to abide by their contract. That would be an issue to me regardless of what the contract was. If I were recommending somebody for the job, I would be vouching that they would honor the commitment they have made. If I know they do not have the intention of doing so than I cannot in good conscience recommend them.

ETA: There are many things that are not against the law that teachers are expected to refrain from. Photos like that could get you fired from a public school, much less a catholic one. There was a story the other day about a cheerleading coach who was fired for posing in Playboy. Not illegal, but still firable. If you're going to do these things, don't post them publicly.

 

[ameraumi]

Here's the thing...drinking and watching male strippers is not against the law (assuming she is of legal age to do so). The morality clause you are concerned about should be an issue ONLY for future behaviour, after employment. What is immoral to the Catholic Church may not be immoral to anyone else, therefore, she should only be judged on her morality, as dictated by the Catholic Church, once she actually signs an employment contract.

I was getting ready to say the same thing.