Writing help-how to "quote" something in a paper

[golfgal]

DS15 is writing a paper for AP English. Neither of us can figure out the right way to quote something. He has to quote passages from the paper but one of the passages is also a direct quote from someone in the book.

The passage/quote is:

"Let go", she said "let go." Do you also add additional quote marks for quoting this as a passage:

" 'Let go', she said, 'let go'." Would the period go inside or outside the single quote mark?

Thanks

 

[allyphoe]

1) Yes.

2) Inside.

ETA: And the comma after the first "let go" should be inside the quotes, as well.

I'm surprised that nested quotations haven't come up in his prior grammar classes.

 

[onelilspark]

Should read:

"'Let go,' she said, 'let go.'"

 

[golfgal]

1) Yes.

2) Inside.

ETA: And the comma after the first "let go" should be inside the quotes, as well.

I'm surprised that nested quotations haven't come up in his prior grammar classes.

They have, he had them quoted ""....."" which I knew wasn't right but was double checking for the right way.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The best reference book I ever bought was my MLA handbook, they have an on-line version too but I prefer the feel of a book. I bought both of my kids one last year because it was invaluable from about 7h grade on through college. Without a doubt, it gave me a strong advantage as a student.

I think the punctuation required by the sentence within the quotation marks carries more weight than the sentiment of the complete sentence. You do not put punctuation outside of the quotation marks if they end the sentence.

A good rule of thumb my AP high school teacher taught us for commas is to consider using one whenever a pause is appropriate in conversation. Not a perfect rule but fairly close.

Good luck!

 

[LuvOrlando]

Double

 

[snarlingcoyote]

The best reference book I ever bought was my MLA handbook, they have an on-line version too but I prefer the feel of a book. I bought both of my kids one last year because it was invaluable from about 7h grade on through college. Without a doubt, it gave me a strong advantage as a student.

This is the book! I totally second this reccomendation.

 

[klacey1]

If they use MLA, it's actually:

"'Let go,' she said. 'Let go'" (Author Page Number). <--- period after "said" (not MLA, just common grammatical sense, unless for some other reason, the direct quote in the passage is grammatically incorrect) and period after parenthetical citation.
A GREAT website is The Owl at Perdue.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/
Great resource!

 

[golfgal]

If they use MLA, it's actually:

"'Let go,' she said. 'Let go'" (Author Page Number). <--- period after "said" (not MLA, just common grammatical sense, unless for some other reason, the direct quote in the passage is grammatically incorrect) and period after parenthetical citation.
A GREAT website is The Owl at Perdue.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/
Great resource!

I forgot about that. They actually have this published with their planners, or at least the more common aspects.


Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[LuvOrlando]

If they use MLA, it's actually:

"'Let go,' she said. 'Let go'" (Author Page Number). <--- period after "said" (not MLA, just common grammatical sense, unless for some other reason, the direct quote in the passage is grammatically incorrect) and period after parenthetical citation.
A GREAT website is The Owl at Perdue.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/
Great resource!

Section 3.7.2. Prose, page 110 MLA Sixth Edition says differently, I pulled it out to check my memory and unless additional information is required outside of the quotes, as in your example of the reference in parentheses, the punctuation is required within the quotes. Your example is not the same thing and I believe I addressed the fact exceptions exist when I defined the particular circumstances where the rule applies.

 

[onelilspark]

If they use MLA, it's actually:

"'Let go,' she said. 'Let go'" (Author Page Number). <--- period after "said" (not MLA, just common grammatical sense, unless for some other reason, the direct quote in the passage is grammatically incorrect) and period after parenthetical citation.
A GREAT website is The Owl at Perdue.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/
Great resource!

I thought if you were direct quoting from another source you weren't supposed to correct grammar/spelling...am I incorrect?

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I don't have my MLA handbook handy because I use APA in grad school, but:

Using a Quote within a Quote:

* Sometimes you will want to use a direct quote from a writer who is actually using someone else's direct quote. For example if you are reading by book by John Doe and he refers to a sample done by Larry Jones that revealed "ten percent of the air we breath is polluted," you would cite each author in your paper and use a single paranthesis mark to note what is quoted within the quote. See: "John Doe sited a sample done by Larry Jones that revealed 'ten percent of the air we breath is polluted.'"

* Here is another example of how to quote within a quote from the Black Elk passage under the direct quote example and how to quote it in your own paper. Here is a quote from the"Curious Researcher" book, which has a quote from Black Elk. Notice how to signal a quote within a quote.

* Our class book, "The Curious Researcher," written by Bruce Ballenger contains an interesting quote from Black Elk. The circle is important to Indian culture, “Black Elk believed the ‘Power of the World always works in circles, and the stars. He couldn’t understand why white people live in square houses: ‘It is a bad way to live, for there is not power in a square'" (Ballenger 186).

from: http://calstaging.bemidjistate.edu/en3160f01/writingremedies/mlaformatcitations.html

This is the same as previous posters have said: use single quotation marks within double ones. Also, if the quote is used at the end of your sentence, punctuation goes on the outside after your parenthetical citation; if the quote is not the end of your sentence, punctuation goes on the inside. HTH. (So depending on the situation, both previous posters could be correct).

 

[tar heel]

Do your kids take AP English without taking English 3 and 4? Do they make 4s and 5s on the AP test or does AP mean something different in Minnesota? Assuming this is THE AP English class, what do they take junior and senior year?

If you have grammar questions in the future, try the Chicago Manual of Style website.

 

[golfgal]

Do your kids take AP English without taking English 3 and 4? Do they make 4s and 5s on the AP test or does AP mean something different in Minnesota? Assuming this is THE AP English class, what do they take junior and senior year?

If you have grammar questions in the future, try the Chicago Manual of Style website.

Yes it is THE AP English class. Yes, most kids score 3 or above that take the AP classes here. We don't have "English 3 or English 4" here so I don't know what the equivalent will be. Our kids had Honors English Freshman year and could take either Honors or AP English this year (they also have a basic English class and a standard English class for kids). We had a couple kids that graduated last year that scored 5's on ALL of the AP classes/tests they took-which for them was about 20 AP tests or so (they were taking AP classes as freshmen). Junior and senior year they will also take some CIS (College in the School) classes which count for college credit (unlike the AP classes) so a lot of kids don't take AP tests for those classes because it is just a waste of money.

 

[LuvOrlando]

LOL, the flurry here reminded me of another very important lesson a favorite teacher taught me and that is to pick one format and remain consistent, usually teachers have a preference but if not just find a favorite and stick with it. How about that Mrs. Denaro, wherever you are, 22 years later and I still remember

 

[golfgal]

I thought if you were direct quoting from another source you weren't supposed to correct grammar/spelling...am I incorrect?

I may not have typed the exact quote-I was more concerned with the embedded quote procedure. No, you are NOT supposed to correct grammar/spelling in a quote.

 

[klacey1]

Section 3.7.2. Prose, page 110 MLA Sixth Edition says differently, I pulled it out to check my memory and unless additional information is required outside of the quotes, as in your example of the reference in parentheses, the punctuation is required within the quotes. Your example is not the same thing and I believe I addressed the fact exceptions exist when I defined the particular circumstances where the rule applies.

I said the period goes outside of the quotes in the case of citation. I don't know in what circumstance the OP's son would be using a direct quote that WOULDN'T need to be cited! (Otherwise, it's plagiarism. Unless, of course, he introduced the quote something like: On page 100 in Woolf's Mrs. Dalloway, Clarissa says "QUOTE.") I'm assuming that since the OP's son is in AP English, he's smart enough to know he has to cite all quotes!

I thought if you were direct quoting from another source you weren't supposed to correct grammar/spelling...am I incorrect?

No, you're not. That's why I said-- "unless the grammar is incorrect in the text."

 

[LuvOrlando]

I said the period goes outside of the quotes in the case of citation. I don't know in what circumstance the OP's son would be using a direct quote that WOULDN'T need to be cited! (Otherwise, it's plagiarism. Unless, of course, he introduced the quote something like: On page 100 in Woolf's Mrs. Dalloway, Clarissa says "QUOTE.") I'm assuming that since the OP's son is in AP English, he's smart enough to know he has to cite all quotes!

Prose is an exception, quotation marks are also used in conversational dialogue in non-fiction work which means, by definition citation is not necessary. Every novel I've ever read, and most essays, and the play my own DS12 just submitted to his teacher today all have quotation marks without a citation, it all depends on WHAT is being written. From the beginning the OP never used a reference so I assumed this wasn't a reference work. This is why it is generally NOT a good idea to pick someone else apart, not only is it alienating but there is a great deal of room for error in interpretation. I keep trying to give you room for a graceful exit but you refuse so now I want to ask you to please, before you disagree further with me, go and look up the actual portion of the MLA you are disagreeing with and THEN come and talk to me. All formats are covered in the area I cited from, really, it's there, I'm not making it up. I have no interest in besting you but I am capable of reading and I tend to cede to the experts who write the manuals.

 

[klacey1]

Prose is an exception, quotation marks are also used in conversational dialogue in non-fiction work which means, by definition citation is not necessary. Every novel I've ever read, and most essays, and the play my own DS12 just submitted to his teacher today all have quotation marks without a citation, it all depends on WHAT is being written. From the beginning the OP never used a reference so I assumed this wasn't a reference work. This is why it is generally NOT a good idea to pick someone else apart, not only is it alienating but there is a great deal of room for error in interpretation. I keep trying to give you room for a graceful exit but you refuse so now I want to ask you to please, before you disagree further with me, go and look up the actual portion of the MLA you are disagreeing with and THEN come and talk to me. All formats are covered in the area I cited from, really, it's there, I'm not making it up. I have no interest in besting you but I am capable of reading and I tend to cede to the experts who write the manuals.

I don't exactly understand why you are being so accusative...I simply was trying to give the best advice to the OP and her son. I don't think you understand what I am saying. OBVIOUSLY, one doesn't cite a character's voice. HOWEVER, the presence of the triple quotes indicates that the OP's son planned on chopping off the quote after the character's line-- NOT including more text. Therefore, the citation would be needed. You yourself proved this with your "examples." (Not "exceptions.") *** Didn't realize you weren't the one to provide the helpful examples. That was another correct and extremely helpful PP. You also said you addressed "exceptions apply" in your original post-- you did not. Anyway, citing a quote is not an exception. It's the rule. You use another author's words-- you give them credit.
Please don't be patronizing and say that you're trying to "give me a graceful exit." I never said you were wrong. I simply said, if you are quoting an author, you cite it. When you cite something (except in the case of a block quote, long stanzas of poetry, or the quote ends in an ellipses), the period goes after the parenthetical citation.
As far as "agreeing with the experts," I am a book editor. I fix grammar for a living. I also tutor middle and high schoolers on the side.
*** I don't exactly get what you're saying about prose:
Every novel I've ever read, and most essays, and the play my own DS12 just submitted to his teacher today all have quotation marks without a citation, it all depends on WHAT is being written.
Obviously a novel doesn't cite itself. A novel, however, uses simply double quotes when a character is speaking (not the triple, as when one is citing another source). Clearly, the OP's son was writing a paper and CITING something an author from another work said (hence, why the OP was concerned about the quotation marks/punctuation). Plays never use quotation marks, unless a character is referring to something someone else said.
I really don't understand why you're attacking me. I never said you were wrong or that I disagree with MLA (you pulled that one out of nowhere). I support my livelihood agreeing with Chicago and other manuals of style.

 

[klacey1]

Also, I really can't believe I am letting you upset me this much, LuvOrlando, but I pulled out my copy of the MLA handbook (5th edition, we use Chicago primarily at work). I really don't understand why you feel the need to be so hostile...

In 2.7.2 it clearly states "If a quotation ending a sentence requires a parenthetical reference, place the sentence period after the reference."

2.7.7: "By convention, commas and periods that directly follow quotations go inside the closing quotation marks, but a parenthetical reference should intervene between the quotation and the required punctuation. Thus, if a quotation ends with a period, the period appears after the reference."

5.1: "You must indicate to your readers not only what works you used in writing the paper but also exactly what you derived from each source and exactly where in the work you found the material. The most practical way to supply this information is to insert a brief parenthetical acknowledgment in your paper whenever you incorporate another's words, facts, or ideas."

1. OP said her son was writing a paper and quoting from another paper/book.
2. Therefore, he must cite his source.
3. Unless he introduced it in the way that I stated in my Mrs. Dalloway example (just as the examples given in 2.7.2-- "Joseph Conrads writes of the company manger in Heart of Darkness, "He was obeyed, yet he inspired neither love nor fear, nor even respect."), he NEEDS TO CITE IT PARENTHETICALLY .
4. Therefore, the period goes outside of the parenthesis.