Wow....

[Christine]

Ok, I'll jump into the fire

Is it selfish of me to expect the fruits of my labor to be... well... mine? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to take responsibility for their own lives? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to live with the consequences of their decisions? If it is, then call me selfish.

From my perspective, expecting others to take care of me is far more selfish.

When talking about healthcare for everyone, I don't think this about welfare handouts. That is a different subject matter.

We are talking about people who are working, productive members of society not being able to even get healthcare. I work for a company with 9 employees. Our employer pays 75% of the premium; however, we are in danger of being "dropped" by the insurers and broker we used because of our size. We have some employees here who only make $30,000 per year who rely on this health insurance. What will happen to them?

This argument about making the 'right choices' baffles me. I don't understand it. There are people with college degrees who make very little money, there are people who go to work everyday, work hard, yet are in a company that decided it wasn't going to pay for healthcare anymore. There aren't enough jobs in Federal Government, Lockheed Martin, and Google to employ all the people in the country that require the types of benefits they offer. It's not always about choices. You can make the best, calculated choices and still not end up in the "right" place.

The argument posted above acts like everyone who has poor health insurance did it to themselves. Certainly, that is the case in many instances. I'm not thrilled about paying for people that don't go to work and don't want to work, but I already do it.

I'm concerned with getting a large majority of good people health insurance that doesn't cause them to eat Kraft Macaroni and Cheese for weeks on end. Yep, some of the lower life forms are going to benefit from it. Same is true with education, car insurance, etc. Why is this any different? I'll tell you--because it is a NEW concept here.

 

[CheshireVal]

I do not believe I should be forced to pay for someone who has made very poor life decisions.

I do think there are many people without healthcare who find themselves in that situation through no real fault of their own.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I understand your statement but The "Middle Class" benefits don't just benefit the middle class. They benefit everyone. I cannot see the government cutting funding on roads and highways to help healthcare. Maybe healthcare would be better but our transportation would be horrible.

Like a previous poster said, I work extremely hard to earn a living and provide my family with what we have and I do not believe I should be forced to pay for someone who has made very poor life decisions.

But you have no problem paying taxes to have, a police force, roads, schools and libraries? Is it because those aren't paying for lazy slackers who make bad choices?

 

[pearlieq]

For the sake of argument, wouldn't you agree that corporate health care is far greedier? Profit is their only motive.

I'd say they're at least even. But I have a choice about whether or not I want to do business with them. I'm not saying it's an easy or practical choice, but it's not the same as having the money sucked out of my paycheck under penalty of jail time.

 

[WeirdEyes]

I don't mind spending extra dollars helping the less fortunate have healthcare. I agree that we need to keep our money at home in the U.S. instead of helping everyone else when we have people starving and without healthcare here. I just don't want the government controlling my healthcare.

 

[wvjules]

I understand your statement but The "Middle Class" benefits don't just benefit the middle class. They benefit everyone. I cannot see the government cutting funding on roads and highways to help healthcare. Maybe healthcare would be better but our transportation would be horrible.

Like a previous poster said, I work extremely hard to earn a living and provide my family with what we have and I do not believe I should be forced to pay for someone who has made very poor life decisions.

So you would rather have better roads than healthier Americans?

OK, lets not RAISE taxes but reallocate them. What would be everyone's problem with that?

 

[DVCLiz]

I understand your statement but The "Middle Class" benefits don't just benefit the middle class. They benefit everyone. I cannot see the government cutting funding on roads and highways to help healthcare. Maybe healthcare would be better but our transportation would be horrible.

Like a previous poster said, I work extremely hard to earn a living and provide my family with what we have and I do not believe I should be forced to pay for someone who has made very poor life decisions.

Well, those were just examples of my point - that we could cut something to find that money, but then some other segment of the population would have to deal with the loss of those government programs. The point is that our society has decided to let poor people suffer without healtrh care and I think that needs to be changed.

And I'm not convinced that every poor person is there simply as a result of poor life decisions - but that's been a debate in our society for a long time. And I'm not sure, if my choices are to let someone suffer or to help them no matter how they got into that position, that the right thing to do wouldn't be to help them anyway.

 

[Kae]

I around were I live people will walk across the street, to another job for a Quarter but don't give a crap about benefits or insurance they don't want the money taken out of their check.

Kae

 

[rgf207]

But you have no problem paying taxes to have, a police force, roads, schools and libraries? Is it because those aren't paying for lazy slackers who make bad choices?

But i already do pay taxes to help less fortunate people. My tax dollars go to welfare and other assistance programs.

Not everyone who is facing hardship is at fault but there are quite a few especially in my area. i really dont see it helping people to keep giving them everything. Where's the motivation to do anything if we keep giving more.

So you would rather have better roads than healthier Americans?

OK, lets not RAISE taxes but reallocate them. What would be everyone's problem with that?

Please don't twist my words around. I never said that. I said if we stopped funding for roads and increased for healthcare it would be like a teeter-totter. I was stating a direct cause and effect relationship. Reallocating taxes is a great idea

 

[wvjules]

I around were I live people will walk across the street, to another job for a Quarter but don't give a crap about benefits or insurance they don't want the money taken out of their check.

Kae

Huh?

 

[okeydokey]

I think we need to figure out to pay for health care more efficiently. I can't believe how much Americans, as a nation, pay for health care, yet don't receive stellar health care as a result. Can we cover everyone with what we spend now? I just don't know. I do know that every visit I have made to the ER has left me shaking my head and the poor care received. (and I do have insurance, I am talking about after hours emergencies.)

 

[wvjules]

After much though I've decided that all socialized programs should just go away. As a matter of fact, no more taxes period. Everyone must fend for themselves.

If you want better roads, nicer schools, bigger libraries, fire and police departments, you better start making nice with your bank b/c you're going to need quite a large loan.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

I around were I live people will walk across the street, to another job for a Quarter but don't give a crap about benefits or insurance they don't want the money taken out of their check.

Kae

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, but if a quarter raise makes a difference to someone, that person would struggle mightily to afford healthcare. If you're making $8.00 an hour you are barely paying rent and putting food on the table. You don't have an extra $50 or whatever to contribute out of each check for individual coverage let alone family coverage.

 

[Patch'sD]

Why don't we fix the Healthcare System first to make if more affordable. Lets limit Medical MalPractice lawsuits to make it more reasonable to for Doctors and Nurses to practice. Lets have Hospitals be able to share resources so that no matter where you go you can get the best possible care. If a Country Like Canada will not pay the recomended Drug Price, Don't export it there for a lower cost. Bringing down the cost will help more. I pay enough in taxes. I don't want to pay more to allow more people access to a highly ineffcient system.

Why not have the Government, Federal, State, or Local Pay for Tuition to Med School in return have the Doctor and Nurses take on 10% of their Patient load as Pro Bono. If they don't, Take away their license and make them pay back the tuition at 20%. Same for Hospitals, LABs and such. Drug Companies Also.

Fix it First, So the Taxpayers are footing a smaller bill.

 

[NewJersey]

So you would rather have better roads than healthier Americans?

OK, lets not RAISE taxes but reallocate them. What would be everyone's problem with that?

For me there is so much waste in government that we need to clean house there. Millions of taxpayer money is wasted everyday, so let's take the wasted money and start putting it towards the right things. I don't want to pay more taxes.

 

[PghLybrt]

I wrote this for another thread…… but I feel ok to post it here.



I find it kind of ironic how we all complain about how rude Americans have become, how we all have the mentality of me and mine. We do not say hello anymore or hold the door. However when you bring healthcare into the equation the very people who complain shout the biggest no ever heard. What is so wrong with helping our fellow Americans have basic care? Ok maybe it cost me more money out of pocket, so what. The very people who call themselves Christian are some of the loudest in the no camp. I just do not get it.

 

[ducklite]

I think that our government has created a neverending cycle of poverty and abuse of what was supposed to be a safety net.

We make it too easy for people to sit on their butts and get a handout every month.

We don't require them to work--be it filing paperwork at the local "insert name of not-for-profit" or picking up trash along our highways.

We give people social security checks for the most obscene reasons. Because they have one leg two inches shorter than the other and walk with a limp. Because they are obese--I never figured that one out. Because they are blind in one eye. Since when do any of these conditions make working impossible? We give them foodstamps that they use for soda and potatoe chips. We give people who have enough income to take a trip to WDW every year WIC checks.

Yet there are plenty of hardworking people who pay into the system who are living a lower standard of life than those collecting various government benefits partialy because of the massive amount that is handed out each day.

While I've got no problem with people with true disabilities and debilatating illnesses getting government checks each month, I've got a real problem with some of the handouts that I see going on. IMHO anyone who gets a welfare check had better be doing something to earn it--or actively pursuing career training. Food stamps need to be restricted like WIC is--only certain types of wholesome foods are allowed to be purchased with them. And the WIC program has become a joke when the guidelines are so loose that people can afford a WDW trip and still qualify.

Our society has become a culture of pathetic "I'm entitled's." People who think that the government is responsible for everyone's woes. We've forgotten what personal responsibility is all about. Money doesn't grow on trees, government money comes from hardworking taxpayers. And as a hardworking taxpayer, I'm damn sick of paying into a system that gives someone with enough income to take a trip to WDW a WIC check every month. There's something terribly wrong with this picture.

And BTW--for those who take an annual trip to WDW and have put nothing away for retirement--when you retire it's not going to be my problem that you have to choose between heat and medicine. That's no ones fault but your own.

Anne

 

[JMD]

Ok, I'll jump into the fire

Is it selfish of me to expect the fruits of my labor to be... well... mine? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to take responsibility for their own lives? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to live with the consequences of their decisions? If it is, then call me selfish.

From my perspective, expecting others to take care of me is far more selfish.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "

-- Thomas Jefferson

I was going to chime in on this thread, but you've already summed it up perfectly. Not much for me to add.

As far as healthcare goes, the mess we have now is due to government intervention. Giving them total control will only make matters worse. The answer lies in the private sector.

 

[Christine]

I think we need to figure out to pay for health care more efficiently. I can't believe how much Americans, as a nation, pay for health care, yet don't receive stellar health care as a result. Can we cover everyone with what we spend now? I just don't know. I do know that every visit I have made to the ER has left me shaking my head and the poor care received. (and I do have insurance, I am talking about after hours emergencies.)

Your not kidding. We do not use the emergency room. I would rather drag my leg behind me for a few hours than go to the emergency room. BUT...a few months ago my husband got a chemical in his eye and at 11:00 p.m. it started to burn, and it was so painful he could not remain still--he was going crazy. So he went to the ER. Lo and behold, there was hardly anyone there. It took them 3 hours to get him processed while he writhed in pain and temporarily lost vision in his eye. They took his "information" four times. He finally complained and was seen by a nurse practictioner. She looked in his eye and saw no "scratches" and didn't know what to say. She gave him hydrocodone for the pain and some sort of prescription eye ointment then told him to see an opthamologist. The total bill for 3 hours in the waiting room and 15 minutes with the nurse practitioner was $858. We had to pay for about $170 of that.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Putting more money in the govt.'s hands to waste is not a good plan, IMO.

Unfortunately, I don't know what would be a good plan, either. When you can cross the border into Mexico, and get 2 pairs of good prescription glasses (trifocal) and a 6 month's worth of any possibly needed medication for $400, you have to wonder what is going wrong.

I think that the more we are taxed, the less pepople see it as an idividual issue to give to charities. I'd personally rather contribute to groups who are held accountable for their funds, and use them wisely.