Would your limit your child's time with a "Bad Seed" neighbor?

[princesspumpkin]

There's a neighborhood kids Dh and I call "The Bad Seed" or "TBS". She enjoys playing with (or rather "torturing") our DD-7. DD complains about "TBS" constantly when they're together (yet "TBS" never comes to me complaining about DD). DD plays with other children in the development and never has issues with them other than normal 7 year old stuff. I have been trying to steer DD towards playing with the other kids mostly but DH thinks that the experience with "TBS" would do DD good. He says it will help her practice patience and teach her how to compromise. I do understand that, yet I think that spending time with "TBS" does DD more harm than potential good. I am good friends with "TBS" mom (who thinks she's quite the angel) so it becomes a challenge sometimes to avoid having the 2 play together. There are numerous reasons why we call "TBS" this name (too many to include here-well maybe one-In camp once, she was seated next a little girl, turned to the girl and said "I don't like black people" and asked for her seat to be changed. She was 5 "TBS" 's mother told me this herself) I realize that she gets this behavior from somewhere (probably at home) but that's a whole other issue. I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to keep DD away from her as much as possible or let them handle their differences. Thanks

 

[The Mystery Machine]

It will hard to be "good" friends with the mom and then expect to have your dd steer clear.

What is your dd's main complaint when she is with this child? Is it something you can teach your dd to be more assertive on?

If your dd doesn't want to play with her, she certainly doesn't have to. There is nothing wrong with encouraging other playmates that she enjoys their company more.

 

[susy]

I have a similar situation with a little boy who lives next door to my mom. He isn't intentionally mean-just immature for his age (like a bad toddler). He doesn't have ANY sense of limits. I would not be surprised if he picked up a shovel and hit my Ds over the head! I do try to limit their time together . I think your Dh is wrong, by the way.

 

[princesspumpkin]

Thanks everyone. Mystery Machine, DD has complaints like " "TBS" said that she's been to the devil " or " "TBS" said that if we play babies (with the dolls) that she won't be my friend anymore" (because "TBS" wants to play some different game let's throw all the potato chips on the ground and crush them). She has hit DD, told DD to do things that she shouldn't and tried to get other kids to play with only her and to not include DD, to name a few. "TBS"'s mom can be trying sometimes, but she is a friend and I don't want to lose her friendship because her daughter is A Bad Seed.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

This is a toughie--these people are your neighbors, there's goign to be some intereaction no matter what (I assume they go to the same school, too).

While we haven't had quite this problem, I have counselled DD to limit contact with "problem" kids. What I would be concerned with is not even so much now, although it can be trying, but, would this kid encourage your daughter to go down the wrong path in a few years? You know, drinking, drugs, deliquent behavior. I tell DD she has to be polite to everyone, but we don't expect her to like all kids. And personally, I find the comment about black people to be very offensive, just that a kid would say that and think it was okay to do so. Are you sure you want the mother for a friend?

Good luck, it's not easy, and you can't "pick" your child's friends, but you can limit access. Don't wait until you find this other girl torturing your cat or setting the couch on fire.

 

[princesspumpkin]

BuzznBelle, I understand your concerns. I can't find it in my heart to discontinue my friendship with her mother just because of the child. She and I were friends while "TBS" was only a baby, before her behavior surfaced. I can handle it, I'm just concerned about DD. There's another 7 year old that plays so nicely with DD, but whenever "TBS" gets wind of them playing together, she tries to sabotage it.

 

[stevenpensacola]

bump

 

[Serena]

I would send TBS home every time she misbehaved. It will impact your friendship, but your daughter is more important. And I would encourage your daughter to speak up for herself. If she tells TBS "no" often enough, she might decide she doesn't want to "play" with your daughter, or it could get worse.

My ex sil hated me for a while because I wouldn't put up with the misbehaving of my nephew. He either played nice or went home. I made sure whenever they were together it was within my earshot. Long story, but it was neccessary.

 

[WDSearcher]

I think that once the hitting and "doing things she doesn't want to do" stuff starts, that's when the playdates end. Either that, or the only time your daughter gets to play with TBS is at your house, when you're there. And then TBS has to follow your rules or be sent home.

While your DH may be trying to teach your child patience, there's nothing wrong with also teaching TBS that she doesn't get her way all the time simply because she's a bully.

 

[CEDmom]

When part of being TBS also means you're a bigot then I draw the line at letting my child play with TBS. Even if I'm friends with the mom I would simply say that your DD doesn't seem to have the same interests as TBS. If the mom were to press me enough I think I'd have to say something.

It's one thing to have your child play with kids that might not share that well, may be bossy, or even cheat at games. I agree it can be character building. However, from the limited info you've provide this child is beyond that.

Good luck.

 

[princesspumpkin]

And then we step into a whole other problem - disciplining someone else's kid (not, I don't mean spanking). When TBS is at my house, I do "set her straight" about things (as I do with my own DD), but I only go so far because I'm so sure that it will cause major friction between me and the mom. I've heard the mom talk about how PO'd she was when her kids were reprimanded or got in trouble because of something that they had said or done (in all cases, her kids were wrong and the right actions were taken, but she felt that they were just being "kids" and people overreacted. Now, she doesn't talk to the complainers) I know she sounds odd, she has her own issues, but I don't think that severing our friendship will make things better for her or TBS. Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by princesspumpkin
, but I only go so far because I'm so sure that it will cause major friction between me and the mom.

Speaking from experience - unfortunately -- it will come to that whether you want it to or not. Unless the little darling has some kind of transformation (to a better seed) things will only get worse. We were at the point where my husband was begging me to send the next door neighbor home and my daughter was crying and saying she didn't want to play with her (I kept thinking we had to "play nice' so we wouldn't have to make WW3 with the neighbors) but finally I just said, OK honey, you don't have to play with her but you can't be mean to her. Well, just the act of my DD not wanting to play after school enraged our bad seed's whole family and we don't talk anymore. (The girls are 20! And the bad seed is now a bad little plant -- soooooo mean, no friends). Every time I accidently run into her mom at the mailbox or something she still stays something nasty about it -- usually blaming me for the girls not being friends! DD probably said somehting like, "My Mom says I don't have to play with you anymore -- just guessing.

But I digress....Your child is going to sooner or later get fed up with the little sweetie and you'll have to deal with it sooner or later. It will be very hard to keep up the friendship with the mom if she sees nothing wrong with her child.

 

[Sandy V.]

I agree with AuntPolly - you ARE going to have to deal with this sooner or later.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard "If you don't do _____, then I won't be your friend" when my daughter was little, I'd be rich. We tried to quash that type of manipulation at our house when we witnessed it, and taught our kids at an early age how to deal with such rotten behavior (which, when you think about it, that's what it really is). I can't remember how many times I told some little snot, "My house; my rules. If you don't want to follow them, then I can take you home right now." That was all it took.

I realize you like this mother, but . . . you're not doing her, or her daughter, or your own daughter any favors by not nipping this stuff in the bud now.

Good luck with this situation - it's not easy dealing with confrontation. However, keeping your own self-respect and that of your daughter and not being a doormat for someone else is MUCH more important!

 

[floridafam]

WOW.

She would not be allowed to play with my kids. No question.

Your child is witnessing all of her bad behavior and picking up on her bad attitude. By letting your child continue to play with her your sending the signal that it's alright to act like that.

 

[missypie]

How well do you know the parents? Often, when a child is a "bad seed", there is a reason why.

Let me tell you a horror story. I used to teach Sunday School with a single mom with two kids, whose daughter (a 4 year old) was a true Bad Seed. She not only misbehaved, but when I'd ask her to do something like sit down for the story, she would give me a hateful look that I didn't know a 4 year old was capable of. Her mom would just ignore all the behavior; I thought the mom was just lazy.

Well, it turns out the mom had severe mental problems. One day she chased her kids down in her house, slit their throats and then killed herself. Her ex-husband found them all (dead) shortly thereafter; he came to the house because he had been worried about his ex's behavior of late.

I realized that a kid that young does not become a Bad Seed on her own...something the mom had been doing made her that way.

I know that this is an extreme story, but I'd be very concerned about ever letting my child play in the home of a Bad Seed.

 

[aprincessmom]

Our neighborhood had one...she wasn't necessarily a bad seed although at first that's what we thought. Turns out she had severe emotional and mental stability issues. This child had a nervous breakdown and had to be hospitalized at the age of 5 for a period of time.

She was the same age as DD and would come over to play when she was 3. DD didn't like playing with her and there were always problems when she played at our house. DD didn't have any problems with the other children in the neighborhood so I allowed DD to choose when and if she wanted to play. I told DD that while she couldn't be mean to this little girl, she didn't have to play with her if she didn't want to. Even at this young age, DD knew there was something awry and seemed relieved that she didn't have subject herself to this child if she didn't want to.

After a few months of this some of the mothers in the neighborhood discovered this little girl was the problem, not the other children based on observations of the child and her parents. There were lots of behavioral issues -- not listening, temper tantrums, yelling, inappropriate remarks and inappropriate behaviors -- and having her in your house was a real trial.

Some ultimately wouldn't allow the child to play with their children. I only allowed it if DD wanted to play with her -- she was kind of a last resort in the eyes of DD -- and then they could only play outside and I watched them like hawks. At the first sign of bad behavior I would send her home...sometimes I'd have to call her parents to come get her because she wouldn't leave and she would have to be dragged screaming, kicking and biting from our front yard to her own home.
In the end we had to stop her from playing with DD because she became violent to the point of hurting other children in school and on the school bus in kindergarten.

Her parents are no longer together and she's moved from the neighborhood but her other parent has visitation and still lives here. When she comes to the neighborhood none of the children want to play with her. She's 9 now and while her behavior is regulated and "normalized" by some pretty heavy psychotropic drugs, the other children remember the past and avoid her.

I feel badly for her but my child and her safety and needs come first. Some of the behaviors you described are very, very familiar to me. There is a difference between being bossy and being controlling. There is a difference between the normal give and take of children's play and dominance. If you think this child has crossed the line then you should remove your daughter from the situation. If you think this child and her behavior is affecting your child in a negative way, you need to remove your child from the situation -- especially if she can't seem to do it herself.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by missypie
Well, it turns out the mom had severe mental problems.

Oh, our neighborhood bad seed's mom had mental problems alright.....sorry, I know that's mean and I don't want to make fun of actual mental problems. But the mom caused it all, and it truly made me sad for the kid. The mom tells the girl, to this day, that "people don't like her because she's so bright and they are jealous!!!!

I always tried to raise DD to be kind, but there is only so much anyone should be expected to put up with!

 

[sk!mom]

If a child this young has misbehaved to the point of being known as "the bad seed", there is no way that my DD8 would be allowed to play with her. I'm frankly surprised that you would even consider having them remain playmates because of your own friendship with the mom.

I have very limited contact with a sibling to protect my DD from being around a drug user with an abusive relationship.

Making sure that my DD is surrounded by positive people and has healthy relationships is number one to me. She has to learn to deal with difficult kids and peer pressure at school. She should be able to relax and enjoy her friends at home.

I am teaching my daughter to be kind to everyone and her teachers report that she is very kind, but I also want her to feel strong enough to not put up with negative behavior. She had a very difficult girl in her class last year and we helped her learn to be kind when they had to be together, but to limit contact when she had a choice.

One of our mottos for her is "I am woman hear me roar!" I have tried to use that in encouraging her not to give others the power to make her feel bad. She will often say that when she's able to accomplsh something difficult.

Sorry so long, but this struck a chord with me.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by princesspumpkin
And then we step into a whole other problem - disciplining someone else's kid (not, I don't mean spanking). When TBS is at my house, I do "set her straight" about things (as I do with my own DD), but I only go so far because I'm so sure that it will cause major friction between me and the mom. I've heard the mom talk about how PO'd she was when her kids were reprimanded or got in trouble because of something that they had said or done (in all cases, her kids were wrong and the right actions were taken, but she felt that they were just being "kids" and people overreacted. Now, she doesn't talk to the complainers).

I don't understand why it seems to be so important for you to maintain this friendship. You seem to be letting this woman dictate how you behave around her daughter when in YOUR home (because you're afraid that you might cause friction with the mom), and you seem to be upset at the thought that she might stop talking to you. I'm sure there's more to your friendship, but from what I've read here I would be inclined to say that you should discipline TBS however you need to if she's in your home, and if the mom doesn't like it, it doesn't sound like losing her "friendship" or that of her daughter would be that bad of a thing. JMO

 

[Tinkim]

"would you limit your child's time with a 'bad seed' neighbor?"

YES! Long, long story short my son had a boy like this in kindergarten. Very fresh, misbehaved at school, swore, mean to other kids but parents were great people just lousy parents. Several years later after alternating between limited playtime and avoiding him my older son asked me to give him another chance saying he had changed. My younger son, who was 7 at the time, ended up with a broken femure, one week in traction in the hospital, and 12 weeks in a body cast/wheelchair. $20,000 in medical bills and indescribable pain and suffering for my child and they have NEVER been allowed to play with anyone that I had bad feelings about again. My children's safety is not worth being "nice" to a kid who no one else likes for good reason. I realize this is extreme but I thought he was only a bully and not potentially harmful. He learned nothing from this incident and has hurt a couple of other kids since then, gets kicked out of middle school, throws temper tantrums at ball games, and continues to be disliked by mostly everyone. He is a "bad seed" too and his mother's friendship should not have been worth more than my child's safety. I should have listened to my mother's "instinct" and that is a lesson I learned the hard way while watching my son suffer.