Would you stop for this school bus? Update Post #45

[kaytieeldr]

Okay, here's what I picture.
Bus on two-lane main road stopped just before entrance to gated community, facing gated community.
OP entering main road from gated community, bus on her left, she is turning left.
Forgetting for a moment the medians, the marquee, other landscaping, etc., a typical driver in that typical situation would be required to stop - while a driver turning right would not (since the driver turning right would not be crossing paths with or encountering the bus/students).
Therefore, the OP should stop. If she gets really annoyed at the people honking at her, she could put the car in park, go the the driver behind her, and offer to pull over so he (probably ) could pass her and break the law if he wants.

Not asked, but what concerns me more is the bus then making an apparent K turn/U turn to continue on its route? Whose brilliant idea was that?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I would never pass a school bus when they were picking up children, I would not care what the law was. Too easy to get into a bad habit and then one day you hit a child.

 

[luvmy3]

Okay, here's what I picture.
Bus on two-lane main road stopped just before entrance to gated community, facing gated community.
OP entering main road from gated community, bus on her left, she is turning left.
Forgetting for a moment the medians, the marquee, other landscaping, etc., a typical driver in that typical situation would be required to stop - while a driver turning right would not (since the driver turning right would not be crossing paths with or encountering the bus/students).
Therefore, the OP should stop. If she gets really annoyed at the people honking at her, she could put the car in park, go the the driver behind her, and offer to pull over so he (probably ) could pass her and break the law if he wants.

Not asked, but what concerns me more is the bus then making an apparent K turn/U turn to continue on its route? Whose brilliant idea was that?

Exactly. We have a new subdivision just up the road from us and besides the gate it is exactly what the Op describes (median in just the entrance to the subdivision) and the bus stays on the main road so that the stop for all kids living in that subdivision is on the main road, it doesn't turn into the subdivision at all, proabably because it would be too hard to manuver around that median.

To add to the confusion, I think the OP takes a right out of her subdivision Okay I just re-read the OP's posts, I have no idea where the heck she's going
Your descriptions sounds good, I vote we go with your scenerio

 

[DVCLiz]

I would never pass a school bus when they were picking up children, I would not care what the law was. Too easy to get into a bad habit and then one day you hit a child.

The problem with this is that you are then making up your own rules and causing more of a hazard to other drivers who are following it. If you are getting behind the wheel of a car you should be certain you can pay enough attention to the road that you can assess the situation AND follow the law. Otherwise you are just as likely to cause an accident as to avoid one.

 

[sbell111]

I think that I'd just leave the house two minutes earlier.

 

[ford family]

Hope you get a good answer, OP.

I have a different situation. In my state, if a street has two lanes in each direction AND a turning lane in the middle, you are not required to stop if the bus is on the other side of the street - even if it has its stop sign out. The kids will not come on the other side of the street, in other words - they are loading from the edge of the street opposite. This is a NC law and it's not new - it's been several years now.

I can't tell you how many people STILL stop even though they are on the opposite side of the road. Fine, I get that it "feels" like you should stop but I know when I breeze past in one of the lanes and cars are stoppped in the other I get dirty looks, etc. I'm sure someone has written down my license number and called but since I'M the one obeying the law they are probably told that on the phone.

It drives me crazy but if I am not stopped behind someone else I always go - I want to obey the law, not make up my own rules based on what I "feel" I should do.

As a non resident alien who spends a lot of time in the US, I find the inconsistency between areas very difficult to understand. Here in Manatee County the situation you describe would require you to stop. On US41 there are often three lanes in each direction plus a turning lane in the middle. If a school bus pulls up on the other side to let kids off, with flashing red lights and its stop signs out you still have to stop even if you are going in the opposite direction seven lanes away.
I think it is enforced quite heavily especially when funds are low. Anybody visiting from states with differing laws is going to get caught out.

ford family

 

[The Mystery Machine]

The problem with this is that you are then making up your own rules and causing more of a hazard to other drivers who are following it. If you are getting behind the wheel of a car you should be certain you can pay enough attention to the road that you can assess the situation AND follow the law. Otherwise you are just as likely to cause an accident as to avoid one.

That is true.

I suppose OP can call the school and find out the rules for her neighborhood to see if she can move past the bus.

 

[snykymom]

The problem with this is that you are then making up your own rules and causing more of a hazard to other drivers who are following it. If you are getting behind the wheel of a car you should be certain you can pay enough attention to the road that you can assess the situation AND follow the law. Otherwise you are just as likely to cause an accident as to avoid one.

The cemetaries are full of people who knew and "followed the law," and had the right of way.

You may know all the "rules" but you better be darned well certain that the other guy does, too. And sometimes, based on circumstances, even following the "rules" leads to liability (easy example: going the speed limit when road conditions indicate that you should go slower).

Stopping for a school but is never wrong, even if it's not required.

 

[DVCLiz]

The cemetaries are full of people who knew and "followed the law," and had the right of way.

You may know all the "rules" but you better be darned well certain that the other guy does, too. And sometimes, based on circumstances, even following the "rules" leads to liability (easy example: going the speed limit when road conditions indicate that you should go slower).

Stopping for a school but is never wrong, even if it's not required.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. I do think it is wrong because it causes more of a hazard when someone stops dead in the road on the opposite side, causing some drivers to stop and back up traffic and other drivers to keep going.

I'm certainly not disagreeing that there are accidents all the time. And in your example, it IS a "rule of the road" to slow down if conditions warrant - that is actually the law, not "go as fast as the sign says no matter what."

But it is wrong to knowingly disobey a law that - if everyone followed it - would create an orderly traffic pattern on the opposite side AND allow the children to safely get on and off the bus.

 

[java]

Ok I think I get what you are saying and it's similar here- the stop is just short of our entrance- on the other side of the road.

DH drives in front of the stop bus by making a left turn. I told him I wouldn't do that. I think in NJ it's illegal. But do what you are comfortable with. I would stop.

 

[camlace]

We live in a gated community with an entrance gate and an exit gate. The bus picks up outside the entrance gate. There is a median that is larger than five feet (the law says you must stop if the median is under 5 ft wide).

Depending on the day, the bus driver might pull up so the entire bus is even with the median but more times than not, the driver pulls past the median leaving 1/4 to 1/2 the bus outside the median area. I hope that makes sense.

As I exit the gates, the bus would be on my left. There is about 6 feet of pavement before the median.

I need pictures too...because this description makes no sense to me. When you say median, do you mean painted or raised? Which street is the median on...your subdivision separating the entrance and exit? or perpendicular to your subdivision. Not sure how there is only 6 feet of pavement before the median? A travel lane is 11-12' without shoulders...so 6' is a bit narrow. I am sooooo confused Which direction is the bus facing when you look to your left...are you turning onto the street he is driving on? So if he continued straight you would be going in the same direction or opposite direction Pictures are definitely warranted here

But totally not understanding the scenario...I always stop for a school bus unless its a divided (raised median) road, then I am not required to per law. Although I do check for the random kid running across the divided road just in case.

 

[C.Ann]

I always stop for school buses with their lights on.

That being said, in your situation, I'd leave home either 5 minutes earlier or 5 minutes later and avoid the whole issue!

I agree..

And unless you know for sure that this is a legal situation where you are not required to stop, the fine can be a very hefty one!

 

[budmonster]

Stop and wait for the driver to wave you by. If you dont stop he CAN write down your licence plate number and you'll be getting a visit from some nice people in blue I think its a pretty big fine.

The driver can write your tag down but that doesn't mean an officer can give you a ticket, they actually have to witness the infraction.




My Mom has been a bus driver for 30 some years now, I would have to say this: if you were required to stop, by law, that bus driver would have her lights on (red) and the stop sign out. Otherwise if she were caught picking up kids and not following the rules/laws she could/would be fired. And I would think that if she thought it was in the best interest of the children to be out/on that it would be.

I would call and ask if your still leary about going past the bus. I'm sure the transportation people would much rather you cll and ask the question then for you to find out the anwser the hard way.

 

[LisaR]

I need pictures too...because this description makes no sense to me. When you say median, do you mean painted or raised? Which street is the median on...your subdivision separating the entrance and exit? or perpendicular to your subdivision. Not sure how there is only 6 feet of pavement before the median? A travel lane is 11-12' without shoulders...so 6' is a bit narrow. I am sooooo confused Which direction is the bus facing when you look to your left...are you turning onto the street he is driving on? So if he continued straight you would be going in the same direction or opposite direction Pictures are definitely warranted here

But totally not understanding the scenario...I always stop for a school bus unless its a divided (raised median) road, then I am not required to per law. Although I do check for the random kid running across the divided road just in case.

I know it is really hard to envision but I am not taking pictures!

The median is raised.

The 6ft area is nothing more than a turn around area. If you drove up to the gate and couldn't get in, you would need to turn around. It is just a little area to loop around in. I don't think they took into consideration that a school bus would need to turn around in that tiny space.

The bus is facing east and I am facing west. Those are the only two directions anyone can face. There aren't any north/south roads anywhere nearby and there isn't anywhere you can turn left or right into/out of. I am not turning in front of the bus. I am heading west and the bus was heading east, stops and picks up the kids, does a U turn and heads west.

I sent off an email to transportation department to see if they can help me. I will also look for the bus number over the next few days. My gut says to stop and I do but I really am in the minority in this subdivision which makes me question if I am right. One thing that I am really going to pay attention to is those stop signs on the bus. They were not engaged today and I read all the laws and they say the lights must be on and the signs engaged.

 

[manning]

I'm not sure about the median issue but here, the law is that if a bus has the stop sign out, you may not pass the sign from either direction.

If the bus is stopped at an intersection, you proceed as long as you will not pass the sign.

For the OP, I would call the non-emergency number for your police department. They should be familiar with the street that you're talking about and ask them.

It would be a good idea you brush up on the law. I live in Illinois, A few years ago the law was changed. Now traffic has to stop both ways only if it is a two lane road. The old law was you had to stop both ways except when it is a divided highway.

This is covered in the 'Rules of the Road' chapter 4 'Special stops'

"Special Stops

School Buses
You must stop before meeting or overtaking a school bus loading or unloading passengers on a two-lane roadway. A warning will be given at least 100 feet (200 feet in rural areas) in advance of a stop. The bus driver will flash amber and red lights on the front and rear of the bus. The stop signal arm will be extended after the school bus has come to a complete stop. You must then come to a complete stop.

You must remain stopped until the stop signal arm is no longer extended and the flashing lights are turned off or the driver signals you to pass.

You do not always need to stop when meeting a stopped school bus on a roadway with four or more lanes. You do not need to stop if you are traveling in the opposite direction of the bus, but you should drive cautiously.
Your driver’s license or vehicle registration will be suspended for three months if you are convicted of illegally passing a stopped school bus. If you receive two such convictions within five years, your driving privileges will be suspended for one year. In addition to the suspensions, violators will be fined $150 for a first conviction and $500 for a second or subsequent conviction."

I do wish all states would get together and make this law uniform one way or another. For example we drive US 231 in Alabama, which is 4 lane divided. It is posted that traffic has to stop both ways. Good thing I saw the sign or I would have a ticket. Shortly after I saw it I came across a stopped bus in the opposite direction and a squad car behind me.

 

[veraletta]

I always stop for school buses with their lights on.
On a two way street or highway, all drivers moving in either direction must stop for a stopped school bus which is picking up or dropping off children.
You must always stop if you are moving in the same direction as the bus and you must remain stopped until the bus stop arm is withdrawn.

If the highway is divided by a raised barrier or an unpaved median at least five feet wide, you do not have to stop if you are moving in the opposite direction of the bus.

Painted lines or pavement markings are not considered barriers. You must always stop if you are moving in the same direction as the bus and you must continue until the bus stop arm is withdrawn.

Any person using, operating, or driving a vehicle that passes a school bus on the side that children enter and exit when the school bus displays a stopped signal commits a moving violation.

 

[tvguy]

I'd call whatever police agency (police, sheriff or highway patrol) that is responsible for traffic enforcement there and ask them.
Safety has to be the top priority, but the laws can be confusing, especially about what constitutes a divided roadway.
Here in California, I have seen idiots blow past buses with their red lights on (most here don't have flip out stop signs) when they clearly should have stopped.
And I have come up on a school bus with the red lights on and really didn't know if I was required to stop.

 

[SandrA9810]

Can you get a screen shot of google satellite image??

Pull up google, until you can see the median in the road. Hit control+prt sc (print screen), open up paint and paste. Add in some color dots to show where you are when you stop, and where the bus is when stopped. Then upload the picture to photobucket or something.

All these descriptions are going right over my head.

 

[LisaR]

Can you get a screen shot of google satellite image??

Pull up google, until you can see the median in the road. Hit control+prt sc (print screen), open up paint and paste. Add in some color dots to show where you are when you stop, and where the bus is when stopped. Then upload the picture to photobucket or something.

All these descriptions are going right over my head.

I'm going to have to pass on that request. I don't want to post a map of where I live on The Dis. It really isn't *that* important in the grand scheme of things. I figured if someone knew the answer, great. If not, I will continue to stop and suffer the consequences of the honking and flipping off or try to contact the right people to find out for sure.

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone.

 

[Becky2005]

For the OP, I would call the non-emergency number for your police department. They should be familiar with the street that you're talking about and ask them.

I would ask them because honestly, the law on busses keep changing and it confuses us poor older drivers (or maybe it's just ME). Way back in the day when I was a whippersnapper, the law was pretty clear -- Bus is stopped with stopped sign out = you stop no matter where you are at on the road. Seemed pretty simple to ME.

New fangled laws come into place and if you are on a 4 lane highway here and you are coming in the opposite direction you do NOT need to stop for the bus even with the stop sign out.

Two lane, yes, stop both directions. 4 lane, nope, don't stop if opposite, however, if you are behind the bus then you stop in both lanes.

I also hate the ones where the stop sign isn't out but the lights are flashing, it can be confusing but I have learned at least in our subdivision, they expect you to pass if they don't have the stop sign out & just the flashers (this is usually the smaller bus though because they can sit there with the flashers on waiting for a LONG time and they will waive you around if you stop).