Would you go into debt to make sure your DC graduated HS?

[lucigo]

Your post was very informative for me. I will be on the destin area for the summer with my twins attending therapy. They have been ruled out for autism but have speech delay and some minor general motor delays and we also have been logging in the miles for therapy (and lots of out of pocket money to pay for it). Early intervention was a complete failure for us. The destin area is one area that we have considered relocating but I had not heard good things about the school systems for children with special needs (although fingers crossed once we get to tlking more they will be caught up).

Jodi, I would most certainly would go into debt for the program that I felt my boys need (and we are). I have often said I would live in a teepee and I certainly mean it. Our schools don't do a very good job of educating our children without special needs and my faith that they can properly educate a special needs child is non existent. I get what you are saying and if you feel like this program will offer your child what he or she needs, then by all means, do it. I would hate to regret my decision not to later. Good luck!

Look into Santa Rosa and Escambia county. I honestly don't know about Okaloosa (Ft. Walton/Destin) but its probably pretty good also. See what you can find about them on greatschools.org and through the state sites,and when all else fails find moms from that area on facebook with special needs kids and start asking questions.

 

[NYCDiane]

If you had a child with a disability, would you pay for special private schooling to ensure his best change to graduate?

Options:

Private school has a specialized system for your child's specific learning issues. Small classes only 10 kids, and highly individualized curriculum and support from those specially trained.

Their high school graduation rate: 100 percent. Cost: 25 grand a year
The public school has no appropriate curriculum for your child. (You have suspected this, and others inside the school district have confirmed it.) They would have to cobble together something that MIGHT work, or put your child into a classroom that doesn't fit him or her, like cognitively impaired or autism.

Cost is free, but the graduation rate for a child with any disability there is 14 percent.

So: Would being debt-free trump the chance of making sure your child has the best chance at a high school diploma?

My response is going to sound super-harsh but I think it's something you need to consider.

If your child has such a learning disability that he/she won't be able to graduate high school without going to a $25K/year school, what makes you think this child would survive even 1 week of college??? And, if there are no realistic expectations of this child going to college, why waste $25K on a private school just to get a HS diploma ---- which is barely worth the paper it's written on since no "real" jobs (ie: jobs you can actually make a living at) will hire someone with just a HS diploma.

I would say no. Don't go into debt for this. The $25K can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[ssawka]

My response is going to sound super-harsh but I think it's something you need to consider.

If your child has such a learning disability that he/she won't be able to graduate high school without going to a $25K/year school, what makes you think this child would survive even 1 week of college??? And, if there are no realistic expectations of this child going to college, why waste $25K on a private school just to get a HS diploma ---- which is barely worth the paper it's written on since no "real" jobs (ie: jobs you can actually make a living at) will hire someone with just a HS diploma.

I would say no. Don't go into debt for this. The $25K can be better spent elsewhere.

But there is more to education than just going to college and making money. What if the school is in no way preparing the child for the "real" world?

Will a child with a severe disability be able to attend college? Probably not, but does that mean that the child should not be given a chance to read and write and learn basic skills that will allow them to get a job, any job? Or is it better to keep them in an environment where they are not learning and just make them relient on other for the rest of there lives because after all they will probably never go to college? We, as a society, really need to stop trying to equate everything to dollars and cents, IMHO!

 

[crisi]

A voucher paying for a chunk of a private school education would be more beneficial than not doing anything, wouldn't it? This isn't a black or white scenario. I think anything that encourages parents to take an active role in their child's education is a good idea, and that the system as a whole would benefit from the competition. Wouldn't enabling more people to take their kids out of the system by paying part of tuition force public schools to become more competitive?

As Mrs. Pete says - if the voucher is only $2k and the school is $20k, then probably not. Most families who can afford expensive private schools really don't need a $2k voucher. Most private schools that can teach a kid for the amount we could fund vouchers for without huge tax increases really aren't very good (though there are many religious schools with marginal academics that fit the criteria - and in some proposals homeschoolers would qualify for the vouchers to cover homeschooling expenses). In the meantime, to avoid tax increases (which we aren't likely to pass) the money for vouchers gets removed from the public school system. So for people who can't afford the tuition differential, public schools just got funded that much less, which means that much less money for special needs kids who can't find private schools who will take them, and that much less money for the average kids out there who are already caught in the squeeze of us trying to fund education.

Its another way to move money from public systems that serve everyone (but disproportionately the poor and middle class) into the hands of the rich.

 

[jodifla]

My response is going to sound super-harsh but I think it's something you need to consider.

If your child has such a learning disability that he/she won't be able to graduate high school without going to a $25K/year school, what makes you think this child would survive even 1 week of college??? And, if there are no realistic expectations of this child going to college, why waste $25K on a private school just to get a HS diploma ---- which is barely worth the paper it's written on since no "real" jobs (ie: jobs you can actually make a living at) will hire someone with just a HS diploma.

I would say no. Don't go into debt for this. The $25K can be better spent elsewhere.

Well, you have jumped to a lot of conclusions about this child as well as many special needs kids.

First of all, many training programs and trade schools want that high school degree. So, no, it' s not a worthless piece of paper for anybody.

Secondly, plenty of kids with my son's particular LD end up in college. I know a few there on scholarship now, in fact. The nature of the disability is that it gets much better as the child gets older. We've seen this with our own child...amazing, amazing leaps that no one in the district thought possible when we started. (But the university researchers we work with told us to indeed expect these type of improvements, which is why we knew to be optimistic.) Most adults with this have learned to compensate so its effects on their lives is minimal.

Things like a smaller class size...think 10 instead of 30...make a huge difference in the ability to access the material. Courses that are presented in a visual style as opposed to all auditory also make a huge difference as well.

So that's why we are evaluating the merits of the specialized school.

 

[poohfriend]

It sounds to me after reading this entire thread that you have already decided the private school would be best for your child.

Since you're on the budget board, you won't get outright advice to go into debt. I certainly couldn't swing $25k a year for a child right now. We have trouble with the expensive summer camps/ activities. There is no amount of downsizing that would change that. However, I can limit the impact of the school on my budget by making wise money choices. I guess what I'm saying is You would definately have to consider how to minimize the debt. And maybe (if your child is so blessed) you'll be able to bring back to original school system later.

If I have read you heart wrong through these posts and you haven't decided yet, fight the IEP fight. No one I know with an IEP had an easy road getting for his/her child what the child needed. It's often and an emotional and physical fight. Sometimes it's easier to find the alternatives than to pursue the fight.

Best wishes. This parenting stuff is overwhelming sometimes.

Well, you have jumped to a lot of conclusions about this child as well as many special needs kids.

First of all, many training programs and trade schools want that high school degree. So, no, it' s not a worthless piece of paper for anybody.

Secondly, plenty of kids with my son's particular LD end up in college. I know a few there on scholarship now, in fact. The nature of the disability is that it gets much better as the child gets older. We've seen this with our own child...amazing, amazing leaps that no one in the district thought possible when we started. (But the university researchers we work with told us to indeed expect these type of improvements, which is why we knew to be optimistic.) Most adults with this have learned to compensate so its effects on their lives is minimal.

Things like a smaller class size...think 10 instead of 30...make a huge difference in the ability to access the material. Courses that are presented in a visual style as opposed to all auditory also make a huge difference as well.

So that's why we are evaluating the merits of the specialized school.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

But there is more to education than just going to college and making money. What if the school is in no way preparing the child for the "real" world?

Will a child with a severe disability be able to attend college? Probably not, but does that mean that the child should not be given a chance to read and write and learn basic skills that will allow them to get a job, any job? Or is it better to keep them in an environment where they are not learning and just make them relient on other for the rest of there lives because after all they will probably never go to college? We, as a society, really need to stop trying to equate everything to dollars and cents, IMHO!

What job will a person with a severe disability be able to get in today's job market?

Go to your local Unemployment Agency and you will see people who have MBAs, law degrees, engineering degrees, etc., who can't find work.

I also know a few adults who are working at Target, Walmart, and fast food places due to losing Unemployment benefits and not being able to find work in any field.

How can these children realistically compete in today's job market?

 

[nunzia]

I'm pretty sure this thread is a great example of exactly why school choice and the voucher system is a great option?

huh? Guess I phrased that wrong..my point was that school choice and vouchers would be great if implemented..just for these types of things...kids that mainstream public schools can't or won't help..if there is competition among all school and the money we pay that goes toward education could be sent to places we choose..private or public, the competition would make a better learning experience for all. And hey..maybe it would work and maybe not, but we won't know if we don't try..IMO what we are doing now is certianly not working that well. 2K? where did that dollar amount come from..and no, I don't think the voucher amount would cover a private school, but it would help. It would also benefit good public schools and encourage those who are losing students to raise the bar..IMO..in general, competition is a good thing.

 

[andrews_dad]

i would go into debt up to $65,091. Not a dollar more. Not sure why. That is my number.

 

[sukhakuli]

What job will a person with a severe disability be able to get in today's job market?

Go to your local Unemployment Agency and you will see people who have MBAs, law degrees, engineering degrees, etc., who can't find work.

I also know a few adults who are working at Target, Walmart, and fast food places due to losing Unemployment benefits and not being able to find work in any field.

How can these children realistically compete in today's job market?

I don't get the impression that her child has a severe disability. A cousin of mine has a low IQ and lives in a full time residential home and has a job, but those types of jobs are usually a contract worked out to give people like my cousin an opportunity to work. He bags groceries at a local grocery store.

I think when people are hearing that your child needs a school just for kids with disabilities, they are thinking that the child has a very low IQ or other severe disability. But it sounds like this is a child who struggles a bit, but the parents have every expectation that he will be able to live and work independently as an adult. With so few details, people are going to make assumptions, and those may be assumptions you don't like.

 

[NYCDiane]

But there is more to education than just going to college and making money. What if the school is in no way preparing the child for the "real" world?

Will a child with a severe disability be able to attend college? Probably not, but does that mean that the child should not be given a chance to read and write and learn basic skills that will allow them to get a job, any job? Or is it better to keep them in an environment where they are not learning and just make them relient on other for the rest of there lives because after all they will probably never go to college? We, as a society, really need to stop trying to equate everything to dollars and cents, IMHO!

The reading, writing, basic skills part is something that should have been learned long before high school.

Also, what I'm wondering is, if this child has such a learning disability, why is the parent only wondering NOW about a private school??? This is something that should have been jumped on and addressed way back in elementary school. The OP has said in a subsequent post that this particular LD gets better as the child gets older so why no intervention before now?? Why look into a 25K school NOW? The district should have been able to provide this child (all along) with help within or out of the district at no cost to the parents. There is no reason the parents should have to dole out $25K for a HS diploma.

 

[jodifla]

The reading, writing, basic skills part is something that should have been learned long before high school.

Also, what I'm wondering is, if this child has such a learning disability, why is the parent only wondering NOW about a private school??? This is something that should have been jumped on and addressed way back in elementary school. The OP has said in a subsequent post that this particular LD gets better as the child gets older so why no intervention before now?? Why look into a 25K school NOW? The district should have been able to provide this child (all along) with help within or out of the district at no cost to the parents. There is no reason the parents should have to dole out $25K for a HS diploma.

What are you talking about? There's been intervention since he was 2 years old. Private therapy, private specialized preschools, public specialized preschools, regular preschools, then on to K with IEPs and supports that are working through elementary school.

Oh, and he's still in elementary, and we are looking toward middle school and concerned based upon what we see is available there.

Really, yours are the only unhelpful posts on this whole thread.

 

[NYCDiane]

What are you talking about? There's been intervention since he was 2 years old. Private therapy, private specialized preschools, public specialized preschools, regular preschools, then on to K with IEPs and supports that are working through elementary school.

Oh, and he's still in elementary, and we are looking toward middle school and concerned based upon what we see is available there.

Really, yours are the only unhelpful posts on this whole thread.

Take a look at your original post:

If you had a child with a disability, would you pay for special private schooling to ensure his best change to graduate?

Options:

Private school has a specialized system for your child's specific learning issues. Small classes only 10 kids, and highly individualized curriculum and support from those specially trained.

Their high school graduation rate: 100 percent. Cost: 25 grand a year
The public school has no appropriate curriculum for your child. (You have suspected this, and others inside the school district have confirmed it.) They would have to cobble together something that MIGHT work, or put your child into a classroom that doesn't fit him or her, like cognitively impaired or autism.

Cost is free, but the graduation rate for a child with any disability there is 14 percent.

So: Would being debt-free trump the chance of making sure your child has the best chance at a high school diploma?

Nowhere in your post did you say: There's been intervention since he was 2 years old. Private therapy, private specialized preschools, public specialized preschools, regular preschools, then on to K with IEPs and supports that are working through elementary school. Oh, and he's still in elementary

Your original post gave the impression your child is IN high school or getting ready to enter high school. You never said he's still in 5th grade or under. You never said he was getting any type of academic help whatsoever. To the contrary, you said: The public school has no appropriate curriculum for your child.

Maybe you should give the entire scenario in your FIRST post rather than allow people to respond and then come back with some asinine statement that someone's post was "the most unhelpful". If you give the proper information, maybe people would be able to give you better responses.

As for my response now? I think you need to concentrate on his academic needs NOW rather than worry about what's going to happen in 4 or 5 years from now.

 

[kirstenb1]

Jodi, I remember from previous posts that your son has a highly "specialized" for lack of a better word, condition, as opposed to global developmental delays. The school I'm thinking of here in the Richmond area would be the type of school that your son might attend. They address very specific conditions, with the goal to return the child to his/her public school when appropriate. Anyway, none of us has your exact situation, and I know you'll make the best choice for your son.

 

[MrsPete]

And, if there are no realistic expectations of this child going to college, why waste $25K on a private school just to get a HS diploma ---- which is barely worth the paper it's written on since no "real" jobs (ie: jobs you can actually make a living at) will hire someone with just a HS diploma.

First, do you realize that only about 25% of all Americans today have a college degree? By your estimation, that means that 75% of us aren't earning a living wage. Quite a few jobs today do not require a college degree.

Having said that, all high school diplomas aren't equal:

The diploma my daughter will earn in about a month is valuable because it will allow her to go on to college. She is definitely a should-be-in-college kid, and she's chosen a profession that requires a degree. Her high school diploma is Step One towards that future.

Some of her classmates lack either the money, the time or the ability to go on to collge, BUT they've made good choices in high school. They've taken classes that'll allow them to step right into entry level jobs such as bricklaying, auto mechanics, cosmetology, etc. Others'll come out with great communication and computer skills, or knowledge of accounting software Their diplomas have great value because they represent career-ready skills that'll have them earning paychecks while my daughter is still in college.

Unfortunately, some of her classmates will have diplomas that won't do them much good. A bunch of her classmates have chosen to take a college-prep path even though they don't like school, don't read, don't really want to continue their educations past high school. These kids tend to have low GPAs that won't get them into college anyway, and they don't have the strong study skills necessary for success in college. They're the kids who always sought the minimal level of effort. They're the ones who are going to be stuck in food service (or similar), and you're right to say that their diplomas aren't worth much.

As Mrs. Pete says - if the voucher is only $2k and the school is $20k, then probably not. Most families who can afford expensive private schools really don't need a $2k voucher. Most private schools that can teach a kid for the amount we could fund vouchers for without huge tax increases really aren't very good (though there are many religious schools with marginal academics that fit the criteria - and in some proposals homeschoolers would qualify for the vouchers to cover homeschooling expenses). In the meantime, to avoid tax increases (which we aren't likely to pass) the money for vouchers gets removed from the public school system. So for people who can't afford the tuition differential, public schools just got funded that much less, which means that much less money for special needs kids who can't find private schools who will take them, and that much less money for the average kids out there who are already caught in the squeeze of us trying to fund education.

Its another way to move money from public systems that serve everyone (but disproportionately the poor and middle class) into the hands of the rich.

Well stated. It's one of those concepts that sounds like it'd be helpful, but in the long run would cause immense harm.

I think school choice has some merit, but taking money from an already cash-strapped school system isn't a good idea, and it really won't help anyone in the long run.

 

[MrsPete]

What job will a person with a severe disability be able to get in today's job market?

Go to your local Unemployment Agency and you will see people who have MBAs, law degrees, engineering degrees, etc., who can't find work.

I also know a few adults who are working at Target, Walmart, and fast food places due to losing Unemployment benefits and not being able to find work in any field.

How can these children realistically compete in today's job market?

Kids with severe disabilities probably aren't competing with those out-of-work MBAs, lawyers and engineers. Incidentally, my husband is an engineer, and he says we don't have enough new engineers coming out of school these days; we're recruiting from India because not enough Americans are qualified.

A kid with a disability probably does have to work harder to find a perfect job, but what's the alternative? Throw up our hands and say, "Woe is me, I guess I'll just go on Welfare?" Maybe every option isn't available to a kid with a learning disability, but with help and job training, he can make it in the world. I see kids all the time who -- if they're trying -- come up with good career paths for themselves. For example, I've got one student this semester who can barely make it in the classroom; she just isn't academic. But is she ever social. Talks up a storm, and people gravitate to her. She's about to test for her Cosmetology license. She'll be a great success: She's the type of person who -- given a couple years -- will build up a loyal following of customers who'll adore her and will return to her month after month for their haircuts. True, she'd have an awful time trying to fight her way through college coursework, but she's already picked a career that doesn't require that post-secondary education, and it's a career that suits her talents. THAT'S what our special ed kids need: Not necessarily a college degree, but a poke in the direction of a career that plays up their strengths and downplays their weaknesses.

 

[ssawka]

What job will a person with a severe disability be able to get in today's job market?

Go to your local Unemployment Agency and you will see people who have MBAs, law degrees, engineering degrees, etc., who can't find work.

I also know a few adults who are working at Target, Walmart, and fast food places due to losing Unemployment benefits and not being able to find work in any field.

How can these children realistically compete in today's job market?

You might be surprised! Often employers like to higher persons with disabilities because they often do not have the same demands as there non-disabled counterparts.

Also, should a bad economy now preclude these children from acquiring the skill necessary to hold a job in the future?

 

[MrsPete]

As for my response now? I think you need to concentrate on his academic needs NOW rather than worry about what's going to happen in 4 or 5 years from now.

Disagree. Both are important. The OP'd be wise to put most of her efforts into what he needs right now because he is still at the age that he's building basic skills, BUT it's also wise to have an idea of where you intend to be 2 years, 5 years, 10 years down the road. If you don't know where you're going, how are you going to steer in that direction?

For example, my daughter was placed in regular-level math in 6th grade. In retrospect, I should've insisted that she be moved -- math is her strongest subject, and she could've done well in the advanced class. In 8th grade, she had the highest end-of-course math test score in her middle school (Or was it on her team? Oh well, the point is valid.). But we thought we wouldn't make waves, we'd just let it go 'til 7th grade. In the event, she and the 6th grade math teacher were a bad fit (Was anything good about middle school? Very little comes to my mind.), and to avoid having her a second year we kept her in regular level for 7th grade. The upshot was that she couldn't take Algebra 1 in 8th grade.

In high school, it was like a domino effect: She had to take Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra 2 before she could take Chemistry . . . and what with fitting those classes around her other classes and the electives she wanted, she didn't get to take Chemistry 'til spring semester of her Junior year. Turns out she LOVES Chemistry and is VERY GOOD at it. But she couldn't take AP Chemisry as a senior because it conflicted with other classes she needed.

Looking back across the years and the fallen dominos, it all goes back to the 6th grade math class. If I had pushed to have her moved into the advanced level math, she'd have been a year ahead in high school math, she'd have taken Chemistry a year earlier, and she'd have been able to take AP Chemistry as a junior.

Or, I could've had her double-up her maths in 9th or 10th grade, though I'm not sure what elective she would've given up to do that.

But I failed to realize just how important it was that I place her in the right class back in 6th grade. Does it matter now? Well, I can't say with 100% certainty that she'd have passed the AP Chem test -- lots of good students don't -- but if she had, it'd have replaced TWO college Chemistry classes and TWO college Chemistry labs. That's 8 credit hours of college work she wouldn't have to take and for which I wouldn't have to pay. She's had the best of most everything in high school, but I did fail her on this one.

Does the OP need to think 4-5 years down the road? Oh, yes. In future years she may look back and say, "I didn't make all the right choices", but if she's investigating and gathering options, she's more likely to get most of it right.

 

[sukhakuli]

My dh took college math classes as a Junior in high school. He's still doing the same job he'd do even without it. Actually, the college he chose (US Naval Academy) didn't take all his AP courses and college courses anyway, IIRC. It did not affect his career at all, he's still a physician and still got his BS in Chemistry. Don't fret, your kid will be fine.

As for focusing on your kid now vs later, with a kid with disabilities, you kind of have to do both. My ds may never be able to graduate high school, or go to college, or live independently. We have high hopes he will, and are constantly pushing him and working with him to try to get him to be able to do those things in his life. I think odds are good he'll end up like one of the guys on the Big Bang theory, if we can ever get his behavior under control and figure out why he has trouble reading and talking. We work hard to try to get him on level with his peers, with the hope that as he matures he will figure things out, and be able to do all the other things a grown man should do one day. I think odds are good. Of course, he's been having a good week. Ask me a few weeks ago and I wouldn't have been so optimistic, lol. But the answer to that, for all the parents who don't have a kid with pretty severe issues, is that you focus on both, not one or the other.