Would you allow your high school aged DD/DS to do this?

[disykat]

At school, there are teachers in loco parentis. On church trips, there are church leaders in loco parentis. Being on "his own" during family vacations, and staying home at night "alone" at night is not teaching him how to be responsible and trust-worthy out in the real world. It's teaching him how to be responsible and trust-worthy staying by himself. You mentioned that you let him go out in the evenings, so basically you're letting him dip into the lake up to his ankles, and then when he moves into the dorm you'll essentially be throwing him into the deep end, instead of using a more gradual approach, i.e., up to the ankles, then the knees, then the waist, then the chest, then the deep water. Momvic5 talked about rationalizations, and my opinion is that is what asserting that letting him go out in the evenings is adequate preparation for the first semester as a freshman in a college where he stays in the dorms for weeks or months on end, without anyone in loco parentis ,is.

We disagree. It's that simple. I believe supervising while he has his "permit" and letting him go unsupervised once he has his "license" IS gradual. You keep switching analogies. I don't agree that I'm sending him from his ankles into the deep end. I believe I'm supervising as he wades in further each year and when he's ready to swim I'll let him go. I feel no need to send him on little unsupervised forays into the deep end to test if he makes it back in one piece. I'll be able to tell because I've watched him slowly work his way out there with the support of me cheering from the sidelines.

 

[Momvic5]

You're "crossing the streams".

If the scenario is about a daughter, and if her parent would allow the weekend away if she wasn't on birth control, but would not allow it if she was on birth control, then I'm sure most of us would be scratching our heads trying to understand your logic.

With a son, is it pretty much the same: If you'd allow the weekend away if his girlfriend was not on birth control but won't let him if she is, then is still doesn't make sense.

No...you wanted me to entertain you with my thoughts on your proposed reasoning of overwhelmed, overshelthered teens entering the world on their own. If you want an answer based on the thread, I would have to assume sex is going to be apart of the weekend as the girl is on birth control. My answer would be no. My teen would not be allowed to go - whether my teen be the boy or the girl. If you want an answer based on my own personal feelings of a weekend trip for high schoolers in general, my answer would still be no....I think you could be opening the door for your high school teen to be confused about their freedoms/rules concerning their SO.

 

[Momvic5]

Well, I do not look at it as mixed messages. Sorry but I really do not.
I, as a married adult woman with two kids, would NEVER go into my bedroom in daytime hours with my husband and shut the door (for more than a few minutes if we were changing to go out or some other obvious reasons why we needed to be there) while other people were in the house. Doing so would be rude and can make people uncomfortable. Likewise, I expect my kids do not do rude things which will make people uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I would take a trip with my husband. It is neither rude nor should it make anyone uncomfortable--certainly no one in the vicinity (unless we were being inappropriately loud or something--again RUDE behavior).
So the singles I am sending are that:
1. I trust you and I think you can travel together
2. Rude behaviour is unacceptable

How is that mixed?

If your teen is alone at the beach house with his/her SO, their intimacy will not make others uncomfortable. Are you ok with that...because if you are, you sending them the message that you are ok with them being intimate as long as they are considerate of others.

 

[badcramps]

I don't have kids yet so this all theoretical. But I agree with those who think about it by taking the sex out of it. I would lean toward yes depending of course on the particular kid and the particular details. If the kid in question is like I was at that age (responsible and trustworthy), then yes if it was not too far, or too long, and the not being able to rent a hotel while underage were taken care of etc. If the kid in question is like my brother was at that age (irresponsible and often getting himself into trouble in ways I would never have imagined), then no.

I also agree with an earlier post who brought gay kids and the way that parents oddly worry about sex happening at opposite-sex overnight events, but almost never about sex happening at same-sex overnight events. Statistically I would think it likely that something like 3-8% (don't know the exact percentage) of the kids of the posters on this (or any other) thread either are or are going to be glbt; significantly more than that will have sexual contact with a member of the same sex. So yeah, I find it really odd how little anyone thinks that a possibility. (I know this particular case isn't necessarily about same-sex vs. opposite-sex overnight gatherings, but I'm thinking generally. At our honeymoon recently my wife and I saw some sort of large high school group in the hotel in the rooms all around us. We were coming in around 10-11pm and adults seemed to be standing around in the hall way guarding the rooms and putting tape on the doors. We had a good laugh as we walked down the hall thinking there are some gay teens who have just been locked into a room to sleep with members of the same-sex--possibly also gay--for the night....they're probably pretty excited right now.)

Final though on the "reputation" issue. I find it pretty unbelievable outside of perhaps closed fundamentalist religious communities that a 17/18 year old having sex with a long term significant other automatically makes one a slut. More importantly though, if these sexist idiots do actually exist in any significant numbers, I can't imagine why anyone would care what they think, would make personal decisions about sex based on those views, or would let that ridiculousness enter into their parenting decisions.

 

[disykat]

Final though on the "reputation" issue. I find it pretty unbelievable outside of perhaps closed fundamentalist religious communities that a 17/18 year old having sex with a long term significant other automatically makes one a slut. More importantly though, if these sexist idiots do actually exist in any significant numbers, I can't imagine why anyone would care what they think, would make personal decisions about sex based on those views, or would let that ridiculousness enter into their parenting decisions.

Are you using a second identity or are you really being this insulting on a message board you rarely post on? Wow.

 

[badcramps]

Are you using a second identity or are you really being this insulting on a message board you rarely post on? Wow.

I guess if you think it's a perfectly fine thing to go around calling teenage girls "sluts," talk with others about their private sexual lives, and judge them differently than boys for totally normal sexual behavior, then what I said would be insulting to you.

But do you really think those things are okay? If so, I really don't care if you are insulted. If not, then why was what I said insulting?

 

[cruisnfamily]

I don't understand those who answered right away with an adamant "NO!". Do you just not trust your almost adult children enough to let them spend a weekend away? There are some 17 year olds in college already. And those who aren't will be soon. You have to let go and trust them at some point. And if there's no trust there now, I'd hate to see how things are going to be a year from now when they're off to college.

It has nothing to do with trust but rather with appropriate. And, if this is a soon to be senior...that's a whole 'nother year before college. So yes it's "only" a year away but that means hey it's "a whole year" away. See response I quoted below which I agree with completely!

I answered an adamant "NO" and I have a DD who is almost 17. There is no way on the planet I would let her and her boyfriend go away alone for the weekend. They are still KIDS and yes, I know that at 18 she is considered an "adult" but at 17 she isn't yet.

My job as a parent is to set guidelines and limits. She has the rest of her life to be an adult. And for the record I trust my teen - this isn't a matter of trust at all. It's a matter of what is appropriate for her age.

So agree with this, particularly the bolded.

 

[cglaura]

I voted yes. There is nothing they are going to do away for a weekend they can't do in the back of a car on the way home from the movies parked on a side street. By that age you've either taught them well and they've learned it. Or not.

But....I would more judge it on the maturity level of the teens. Safety, driving, etc.

I went away for the weekend after Jr/Sr prom with my boyfriend, whom I married at age 22. But, I was also responsible for myself more than most of my peers. I helped support the house, paid my own bills, car insurance, phone, food, clothes, etc.

I think this would have to be a case by case decision.

 

[disykat]

I guess if you think it's a perfectly fine thing to go around calling teenage girls "sluts," talk with others about their private sexual lives, and judge them differently than boys for totally normal sexual behavior, then what I said would be insulting to you.

But do you really think those things are okay? If so, I really don't care if you are insulted. If not, then why was what I said insulting?

You didn't say any of those things. You said if you think teens having sex is immoral, not that you call them that, talk with others about them, or judge them differently than boys. An opinion that anyone who thinks teenage sex is not appropriate is a sexist idiot (which is what you originally said) is way different than saying someone who goes around insulting teens, gossiping about them and holding girls to a different standard than boys is one. You said none of those things in your OP.

 

[Hollywoodhaha]

Meh...

I am 16, 17 in less than a month and if I had a boyfriend I wouldn't even want to do that stuff..
I don't have the urge to do that until I have been with them for at least a year.


Personally, I would say no. Things WILL happen.

 

[MELSMICE]

Meh...

I am 16, 17 in less than a month and if I had a boyfriend I wouldn't even want to do that stuff..
I don't have the urge to do that until I have been with them for at least a year.


Personally, I would say no. Things WILL happen.

Agree

 

[allison443]

You didn't say any of those things. You said if you think teens having sex is immoral, not that you call them that, talk with others about them, or judge them differently than boys. An opinion that anyone who thinks teenage sex is not appropriate is a sexist idiot (which is what you originally said) is way different than saying someone who goes around insulting teens, gossiping about them and holding girls to a different standard than boys is one. You said none of those things in your OP.

I think you need to reread the post. That poster was specifically referring to calling a teenage girl a slut:

"Final though on the "reputation" issue. I find it pretty unbelievable outside of perhaps closed fundamentalist religious communities that a 17/18 year old having sex with a long term significant other automatically makes one a slut. More importantly though, if these sexist idiots do actually exist in any significant numbers, I can't imagine why anyone would care what they think, would make personal decisions about sex based on those views, or would let that ridiculousness enter into their parenting decisions."

The poster was specifically objecting to adults calling a 17/18 year old in a long term relationship a "slut". I think it was another poster's use of that word as an adult describing a teenager that bothered some people. It wasn't directed at you.

 

[disykat]

I think you need to reread the post. That poster was specifically referring to calling a teenage girl a slut:

"Final though on the "reputation" issue. I find it pretty unbelievable outside of perhaps closed fundamentalist religious communities that a 17/18 year old having sex with a long term significant other automatically makes one a slut. More importantly though, if these sexist idiots do actually exist in any significant numbers, I can't imagine why anyone would care what they think, would make personal decisions about sex based on those views, or would let that ridiculousness enter into their parenting decisions."

The poster was specifically objecting to adults calling a 17/18 year old in a long term relationship a "slut". I think it was another poster's use of that word as an adult describing a teenager that bothered some people. It wasn't directed at you.

I understand it wasn't directed at ME. However, the OP of that post said nothing about "calling" anyone anything. The post was about anyone who believes that to be the case.

 

[Planogirl]

I also see the reference to someone supposedly being a slut in that post. I think it's rude and demeaning to call a girl a slut and I believe that was the point being made by badcramps.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

I understand it wasn't directed at ME. However, the OP of that post said nothing about "calling" anyone anything. The post was about anyone who believes that to be the case.

Sorry but I don't see the difference between those who call someone a slut and those who 'believe it to be the case'. Either way it is reprehensible! We are not talking about a girl who is sleeping with anything in trousers here, we're talking about a young woman in a relationship who wants to go on vacation with their boyfriend. I find it interesting that those who choose to be so judgemental often claim to be Christians! Remind me again where was it written 'judge not lest ye be judged?'

 

[NHdisneylover]

If your teen is alone at the beach house with his/her SO, their intimacy will not make others uncomfortable. Are you ok with that...because if you are, you sending them the message that you are ok with them being intimate as long as they are considerate of others.

I am sending the message that ia trust my teen to go on a trip. Haven't we been over this? Kids can be intimate after school, on lunch hours, etc )again hasn't the thread been over this). I trust them to handle those times too.
All of that said: I personally do not think older, responsible teens who are in a long term relationship and take measures to protect themselves against STDs and pregnancy having sex is immoral.

I don't have kids yet so this all theoretical. But I agree with those who think about it by taking the sex out of it. I would lean toward yes depending of course on the particular kid and the particular details. If the kid in question is like I was at that age (responsible and trustworthy), then yes if it was not too far, or too long, and the not being able to rent a hotel while underage were taken care of etc. If the kid in question is like my brother was at that age (irresponsible and often getting himself into trouble in ways I would never have imagined), then no.

I also agree with an earlier post who brought gay kids and the way that parents oddly worry about sex happening at opposite-sex overnight events, but almost never about sex happening at same-sex overnight events. Statistically I would think it likely that something like 3-8% (don't know the exact percentage) of the kids of the posters on this (or any other) thread either are or are going to be glbt; significantly more than that will have sexual contact with a member of the same sex. So yeah, I find it really odd how little anyone thinks that a possibility. (I know this particular case isn't necessarily about same-sex vs. opposite-sex overnight gatherings, but I'm thinking generally. At our honeymoon recently my wife and I saw some sort of large high school group in the hotel in the rooms all around us. We were coming in around 10-11pm and adults seemed to be standing around in the hall way guarding the rooms and putting tape on the doors. We had a good laugh as we walked down the hall thinking there are some gay teens who have just been locked into a room to sleep with members of the same-sex--possibly also gay--for the night....they're probably pretty excited right now.)

Final though on the "reputation" issue. I find it pretty unbelievable outside of perhaps closed fundamentalist religious communities that a 17/18 year old having sex with a long term significant other automatically makes one a slut. More importantly though, if these sexist idiots do actually exist in any significant numbers, I can't imagine why anyone would care what they think, would make personal decisions about sex based on those views, or would let that ridiculousness enter into their parenting decisions.

I find your thoughts about gay kids interesting (and similar things were brought up a couple of times in passing earlier. I guess the big difference to most parents would be any combination of these:
1. A gay relationship will not result in a pregnancy (seems many parents worry more about that than STDs).
2. Gay kids have spent pretty much their entire lives changing in front of others of the same sex, etc so this is not such a new and taboo thing for them.
3. In random situations (like the school trip--as opposed to going away with a friend for the weekend) the odds are much less that both kids will be gay than that both will be straight or one gay).
4. (and this is the biggie I think) most parents in our society do not even consider the possibility that their child (or his/her friends) is gay. Most everyone just assumes straight unless proven otherwise.

Personally i have never assumed about who my kids will someday love. I have tried to be neutral in how I talk about it just like I tried to place scissors and drawing materials in the center when I had preschoolers who could end up right or left handed. I am especially glad I took that approach now because I think there is a good chance that one is heading in that direction (I don't think said child likes anyone in that way yet to realize it--and i could be wrong, but if I HAD to say that is what I would guess; I have had several gay friends tell me the same thing about his child). For the record: if I felt they could handle the trip I would let either child as an older teen take a weekend away with a friend/SO of either sex.

Oh, I do have to had that it was very clear to me also that in badcramp's post s/he was referring specifically to calling/considering girls sluts in the comments disykat is upset about.

 

[Minnie_me]

I said no, and have an anecdote to share:

My friend's daughter won a full scholarship to a nearby university 4 years ago, and was in her senior year, about to graduate with a 4.0 average, when she and her boyfriend went to Mexico for Spring Break. I was shocked that my friend let her daughter do this! But the friend said, "She's been such a good girl, I have to reward her behavior by letting her go on this trip."

I saw photos of the college graduation on Facebook, and learned that she won more scholarships to pursue her Master's Degree.

When I caught up with my friend in mid-July to congratulate her, she burst into tears and told me that her daughter was pregnant. Big surprise -- it happened in Mexico!

Could it have just as easily happened in her dorm room? Of course. But the fact that the parents openly approved of the Mexico trip made sex permissible as well.

 

[MELSMICE]

I said no, and have an anecdote to share:

My friend's daughter won a full scholarship to a nearby university 4 years ago, and was in her senior year, about to graduate with a 4.0 average, when she and her boyfriend went to Mexico for Spring Break. I was shocked that my friend let her daughter do this! But the friend said, "She's been such a good girl, I have to reward her behavior by letting her go on this trip."

I saw photos of the college graduation on Facebook, and learned that she won more scholarships to pursue her Master's Degree.

When I caught up with my friend in mid-July to congratulate her, she burst into tears and told me that her daughter was pregnant. Big surprise -- it happened in Mexico!

Could it have just as easily happened in her dorm room? Of course. But the fact that the parents openly approved of the Mexico trip made sex permissible as well.

This is what I feel.

I'm not naive. If I give my DD's permission to go away with a boyfriend for a weekend, I know deep down that they are going to be intimate. I may want to pretend they are not by saying that I have instilled good morals, trust them & hope they make the right choices, (which I think we have) but I would be ignorant to think that they are not being intimate.

 

[Sorsha]

This is what I feel.

I'm not naive. If I give my DD's permission to go away with a boyfriend for a weekend, I know deep down that they are going to be intimate. I may want to pretend they are not by saying that I have instilled good morals, trust them & hope they make the right choices, (which I think we have) but I would be ignorant to think that they are not being intimate.

If your DD is asking to go away with her boyfriend for the weekend on a trip, just the two of them, you are ignorant to think they are not being intimate already.

JMHO.

 

[bicker]

And indeed, the fact that an unwanted pregnancy stems from the trip you permitted versus a secret liaison you didn't permit makes no real difference in the end. There is no reason to believe that one will be more likely than the other. (Indeed, as alluded to earlier, in the former scenario, you can use granting the request as a sound foundation for having a strong discussion about responsible behavior that could actually reduce the probability of the unwanted pregnancy.)