Would you allow your high school aged DD/DS to do this?

[badcramps]

I see a HUGE difference between calling someone names and thinking a behavior is immoral (which is the definition of the word in question.) Having an opinion is not the same as judging. EVERYONE has opinions.

My point is that the person who wrote that post was slamming anyone who had the opinion that the action of teenage sex is immoral. That poster said nothing about calling names, they were talking about beliefs. Believing an action to be immoral is NOT the same as calling some immoral. Everyone behaves immorally at times.

I swear I responded to your earlier post last night, but the post is not showing up. Must have gotten lost when I had to login again after writing it.

In any case, in the lost post I said essentially what a bunch of other posters have said. Yes I do think that anyone who thinks in terms of degrading terms such as "slut" (the word I used in my earlier post) is an idiot. (More of an idiot if you *call* a girl a slut, but still an idiot to *think* of her as one just as with any offensive slur thinking it is still pretty bad in my opinion even if one keeps it to oneself.) And if you apply that word to teenage girls but not boys for the same behavior, that is obviously sexist. Hence, sexist idiots.

My post was a response to the earlier discussion of how a girl would get a "reputation" in some poster's circles if she was known to have gone on an overnight trip with her boyfriend. At least two posters made clear that these things are talked about, that it is only girls who are judged this way, and that "slut" is the word that would be used amongst adults who knew about the overnight trip. Maybe I should have quoted them specifically to indicate I was replying to that conversation--the implication that parents should consider that their daughter is going to "get a reputation" if she is allowed to go on an overnight trip.

I have reread my earlier post and cannot find the word "immoral" anywhere in it (unless my eyesight is failing me). So no I was not talking about people who simply find sex between teens immoral. I don't think it makes one an idiot or sexist to believe that sex before marriage or whatever is wrong. I find it a completely implausible and still see no reason to care that others think this or to change anything about how I live or would parent as a result of it. But yes as you say thinking/saying "x is immoral" is very different than thinking/saying "Jane is a slut." That is why I used the word "slut" and not the word "immoral."

 

[jamimb]

When parents teach teens how to drive, they put them in front of the wheel, in control of the moving vehicle, for a short period of time, to start, then a little longer, then a little longer, then a little longer, and they progressively increase the amount of time that the teen is in control of the moving vehicle, rather than just having them watch the parent drive, and then at a specific point, letting the teen get their own car and start driving it all the time, having never had any real experience being in control of a moving vehicle before.

Your right but not until the appropriate age. We are not all taking our 6 yr olds and letting them drive. It's up to the parent to determine what that age may be. My DD is 14 she will not be allowed to drive on the main roads with an adult until she is 15 but that did not stop us from this very morning taking her to a school parking lot and letting her practice. 17 is too young IMO to let them go off by themselves! Heck with a lot of kids 18 is too young but alas by then they are legal adults and can do as they please. I plan to follow the you live in my house you follow my rules thing though!!

 

[luvmy3]

Doesn't that sentence contain a contradiction? When people say they "trust" their daughter in that context, it tends to mean that they don't believe she's going to have sex . . . yet she's on birth control?

That depends on the parent's rules as far as sex go. If a parent forbids their teen to have sex then yes that would be a contradiction. If a parent knows or assumes that their teen is having sex and puts them on BC then no, how could it be a contradiction. I would trust my kids to make the right decisions, to do the right thing, to be able to handle a situation, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean anything regarding sex, because if my dd was already on BC (and hopefully using a condom too) then that is why she would already have my trust as far as sex goes.

At 17, alone with the boyfriend, completely unsupervised, no. That's an invitation to .

At 17 with friends AND the boyfriend, completely unsupervised. . .maybe. I would take a LOT of convincing, but I could be maybe be swayed, even though I know what might possibly happen as the same thing could happen home alone in the afternoons, so I'd have to have some trust in my daughter to make decisions and have friends who would keep them busy, but not that kind of busy.

At 17 with friends unsupervised, probably, depending upon the child.

At 17 with boyfriend and supervision, yes.

At 18 or 19, however, things would be completely different. A 17 HS Junior is different from an 18 year old college student. I'll be honest, I'm much more comfortable with a college student who is, ahem, "active" than a HS student.

I don't understand your logic. To me there is no difference between going away alone with your BF or going with your BF and a bunch of friends. Whatever they would do alone, they will do with their friends there. (well not right there but you know what I mean).

You're talking about a 22 year old woman, college grad, being pregnant, right? Not a high school senior? And her mom talking about letting her go to Mexico as a senior in college? When does it stop? If her dd was in grad school would she still need permission to travel with her boyfriend? I think by 22 that's a different scenario than a 17/18 year old. Really a 22 year old grown woman needs to make her own decisions and be responsible for those decisions. It's certainly not the mother's fault

I was thinking she meant that the girl was a senior in HS at the time and was supposed to be attending college and ended up getting pregnant before HS graduation.

 

[CookieGVB]

Who said going away for the weekend was all about sex? I realize that these are teenagers, but if you have supposedly instilled the right values in them, aren't they trustworthy enough to make their own decisions? Unless these kids are homeschooled and locked up within sight of their parents 24/7, the opportunity for sex has come up before now...and the girl being on b.c. is indication that is not the case (unless it's for medical reasons).

My concern would be less about the sex portion, than their experience in driving long distances on their own. I voted yes, but I'll change that to maybe for that reason.

 

[disykat]

So no I was not talking about people who simply find sex between teens immoral. I don't think it makes one an idiot or sexist to believe that sex before marriage or whatever is wrong. ."

Okay, I feel better when you say that is not what you were thinking. I went back looking for posts where anyone said they would publicly call someone a "slut," gossip about them, and hold a different standard for girls than boys, but all I could find was someone who said people might "think they are a slut." (While I understand the term is offensive, the definition of the term is "immoral woman" which is where I got that you thought people thinking teens having sex is immoral was who you were calling sexist idiots. )

 

[Momvic5]

I think we are just not understanding each other well. I do not (will not) tell my teen to go have sex and I will rent her the room. But in so far as there are plenty of times that she is home alone and could have a boy over, or she is on her own after school and could end up at a boy's house--there are opportunities but nothing that is set up as "a place/time for sex" as you seem to be thinking. Just normal things that one might normally have (time at home, etc) which could be used as opportunity for sex if a teen is so inclined. Likewise, a trip would be a TRIP. The main purpose of a trip is to go somewhere else and sight see or visit friends there or what gave you--there is something about the DESTINATION that is a draw. There are on trips, just as in every day life, times/places where a teen who is so inclined could have sex.
But, yes, I AM consistent--I CONSISTENTLY trust my teen to handle herself around a boyfriend even when unchaperoned--at school, at his house, at our house, at a friend's house and on vacation..

I agree....I know that I am not good at expressing my thoughts.....my original thought has somehow been confused. Trust is not the issue for me. The issue, for me, is being consistent with what I am allowing and not allowing on a daily basis and then compromising all of it for a weekend trip. I trust my ds14 to make wise choices most of the time but not all of the time - and I also know that certain temptations are easy to fall into - heck, I can't resist a warm chocolate chip cookie.

Have a good evening!

 

[kelly1218]

It really depends.

But if my DD was in a serious relationship, and was almost 18.

Yes I would.

I was 17 when I started going on vacation with my DH (well my boyfriend then)
We had been dating over a year at the time, so I imagine that would be a factor I would consider in my decision too.

 

[FQ fan]

... For me I think that vacationing with a significant other is something adults do. Not high school kids...

I agree.

At 17 I went away for the weekend with my boyfriend of 2+ years without my parents' knowledge or approval. The trip changed our relationship. (not a sex thing) He felt that things were more serious and changed his attitude towards my relationship with my parents. (They would never have allowed me to go, so they were obviously keeping us apart.) I also felt really isolated because I couldn't even really talk to friends about it for fear of ruining my reputation.

Personally, I would not agree to let my daughters go on a "couple" trip. There are plenty of independent responsibilities they will have to prepare them to be away from home that do not include emotional pitfalls.

 

[bicker]

Your right but not until the appropriate age. We are not all taking our 6 yr olds and letting them drive.

Of course, but we're not talking about 6 year olds going off on a weekend together, either.

17 is too young IMO to let them go off by themselves!

She's 17-almost-18. The issue I've been raising is what are parents doing to ensure that their teens have had sufficient practice being trustworthy for more than a few hours, before their teens go off to the first semester of college.

Heck with a lot of kids 18 is too young but alas by then they are legal adults and can do as they please.

Precisely. We live in a society where some things are parameters that we have no control over. Ignoring reality because it isn't to your liking does not make reality go away.

I plan to follow the you live in my house you follow my rules thing though!!

And what I've been voicing is my concern about how parents taking that perspective may be setting their teens up for the kind of catastrophes I outlined in my message very early in this thread. You're surely welcome to apply your rules strictly. No question about that. The question is whether you're doing so mostly because you hold to your beliefs and values so strongly, or mostly because it is what is actually and realistically what is best for your teen in terms of how their first year of being away from home will go for them. You are under no obligation to give the latter primacy.

 

[powellrj]

The more I read this thread, the more I want to leave the kids at home and I want to go to the beach house!

 

[aprilgail2]

. 17 is too young IMO to let them go off by themselves!

But its not to young to go off to college? I think that once they are college age they have to be making some decisions on their own- mommy won't be there in the dorm room with the kids to monitor their every move.

 

[MushyMushy]

But its not to young to go off to college? I think that once they are college age they have to be making some decisions on their own- mommy won't be there in the dorm room with the kids to monitor their every move.

Dorms typically have resident assistants and resident directors overseeing a good bit of what's going on with the students. It's not quite the free-for-all a vacation in a hotel would be.

And what hotel would let people under 18 stay anyway?

 

[bicker]

Dorms typically have resident assistants and resident directors overseeing a good bit of what's going on with the students.

Have you ever been an RA? Maybe things have changed over a few decades but that was not our job. Our job was to help freshman to get acclimated to their new environment, to mediate conflicts between roommates, to find the way around a huge campus, and to understand what resources there were if they go in trouble. We weren't mommy and daddy. We didn't tell them to do their homework. We didn't tell them when to go to sleep. And we surely didn't tell them where to sleep, or with whom.

It's not quite the free-for-all a vacation in a hotel would be.

My experience was exactly opposite: At a hotel, the management would tell you to keep the music down or they'd kick you out. Even as an RA all I could do is ask, and I wouldn't even dream of doing that before 11pm.

 

[MushyMushy]

Have you ever been an RA? Maybe things have changed over a few decades but that was not our job. Our job was to help freshman to get acclimated to their new environment, to mediate conflicts between roommates, to find the way around a huge campus, and to understand what resources there were if they go in trouble. We weren't mommy and daddy. We didn't tell them to do their homework. We didn't tell them when to go to sleep. And we surely didn't tell them where to sleep, or with whom.

My experience was exactly opposite: At a hotel, the management would tell you to keep the music down or they'd kick you out. Even as an RA all I could do is ask, and I wouldn't even dream of doing that before 11pm.

Too bad management wasn't that vigilant where we just stayed.

But you're right, RAs aren't a substitute for mom and dad, but they are like a stepping stone, more like mentors than parents. When I stayed in the dorms in the 80s, I felt like our assistants were like babysitters. Later when I did my graduate work, some of my classmates were RAs and they did have the responsibility to check on students, making sure they weren't drinking in the rooms, no opposite sex guests, and things of that nature.

 

[bicker]

I wonder if it is just different universities, or perhaps universities have gotten more parental since my time.

 

[luvmy3]

The more I read this thread, the more I want to leave the kids at home and I want to go to the beach house!

Of course that would be a whole new thread

Should we go to the beach house and leave or 17 almost 18 year old alone. SHe has a boyfriend and is on BC so I don't worry....................

 

[MerMom60_94]

The more I read this thread, the more I want to leave the kids at home and I want to go to the beach house!

That depends....if I go to the beach house do I have to have sex and party or can I just go and swim and play games and have a good time?

I'm dying to see who gets the last word in this thread.

 

[luvmy3]

That depends....if I go to the beach house do I have to have sex and party or can I just go and swim and play games and have a good time?

I'm dying to see who gets the last word in this thread.

Maybe the OP if the tread on the other board that the OP here is talking about. Hopefully she can give us an update on her decision

 

[eh24fan]

I vote MAYBE. Here's the thing, like everyone has said, if they are going to have sex they are going to do it whether they are away or at home. I'm only 32 and I know the lengths that a teen couple will go to when they are determined.

With that said, I'd probably let her go if it was a long-term relationship, not something that was fleeting, not a new boyfriend, etc. I would need to know where they were going, when they were going and coming home and I would make sure phone calls were made upon arrival.

My brother went to college at Clemson, his girlfried was a senior in high school. He was so ridiculously homesick for her and our sisters (they were babies, only 2 and 1 at the time). My mom talked to gf's mom and they agreed to send gf to Clemson for the weekend with my brother. Gf was only 17 at the time, she was on an airplane for the first time, spent the weekend in SC, then came home. Was her mother nervous and wondering if it was a good idea? Yup. So was my mom. But they knew both were good kids, they knew nothing was happening that didn't happen at home, and they also knew that it would do both of them a world of good because they were both miserable.

Fast forward 10 years..they are married with a 15 month old. This September they will have their 7th anniversary. They aren't the norm though. LOL

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Dorms typically have resident assistants and resident directors overseeing a good bit of what's going on with the students. It's not quite the free-for-all a vacation in a hotel would be.

And what hotel would let people under 18 stay anyway?

I am sorry, not to be rude, but I had to laugh when I read this.

When is the last time you had a kid in the dorms? Things have changed immensely since you were there in the 80's. Having a child that just finished a year on campus, I can absolutely guarantee that the RA's do NOT watch over who is sleeping with whom. Heck, they are all students themselves and are just as likely to have guests at night too.

The dorm bathrooms in my child's university, in both guys and girls dorms, have bowls of condoms sitting on the counter that are restocked daily by the RA's as part of their job.

There is one dorm that is designated as an alcohol and drug free dorm where the school is more attentive, but I don't think there are any sex free dorms you can request.

Now, your mileage may vary with a very small, conservative private school where it is easier to patrol, but with any of the larger colleges and Universities, public or private, sex is not regulated.

RA's are there to do exactly what Bicker said - to help the transition into dorms, to mediate roommate issues. Never to monitor who is sleeping in whose room.

Heck, most of the dorms on my child's campus are semi-coed - 1 floor guys, 1 floor girls, with no doors from the steps, so they can run upstairs and downstairs at will.