Would a nightly resort fee effect DVC?

[jerseyduke]

Apparently there are 2 parts to the MB. One is a passive RFID that will continue to work with the scanners etc. The battery is for the longer range to do things like record your photo automatically when you come down the drop at Splash Mt. You'd still be able to touch the scanner to retrieve your photo though. So entry and anything that the MB touches the scanner should work indefinitely as I understand it.

This is true. The RFID part is what is used on fast passes, and room keys. RFID is a form of near field communication. It has to be (virtually) right up against what is looking for it. The second part to the Magic Band is an antenna and transmitter; this is where the battery comes in. This is the part that allows the attractions to photograph you automatically.

And it is pretty insane that they would "charge" us for a room key.

Why? They have done it since 1971! It is part of a hotel's operating costs, which is used to determine rates. It was just never itemized into the bill. The consumer pays for everything!

But, I think Disney would never directly charge for MBs. They will sell additional ones, and custom ones, etc. But the bottom line is they want you to have one. They will make more money off of you if you do. (And enhance your experience at the parks).

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts? Sure, back in the days of Troy...now its more "Beware of corporations giving you things for free"...because it is to get more from you!

What has me really curious is to see how long it is before the apple watch can take the place of a magic band.

 

[Splashboat]

I see nothing in the POS that would prevent them charging this, for parking or a number of other fees. Maybe someone else has more info.

I was really afraid somebody was going to say this ^^. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[crisi]

That being said, I just stayed in Las Vegas after winning a contest for a free trip from Cirque Du Soleil. ALL the hotels there now charge resort fees. I won a stay at the Mirage, where the fee is $32 per night! Last time I stayed in Las Vegas was 9 years ago, before the invention of resort fees. I stayed in a very nice hotel for 2 nights for $32 total! Now that same hotel charges more in resort fees than my stay cost. A HUGE rip-off.

Like airlines, some of it has to do with how people shop for travel. Comparing prices on the internet you see room night or ticket costs. Unless you do additional research you are unaware of the other fees that are on there. The more they can charge you for off the room night/ticket cost, the cheaper they can make the price look on Expedia.

Its one of the areas where consumer protection should step in to say "you have to disclose all mandatory and optional fees when you quote a price"

 

[carlbarry]

Like airlines, some of it has to do with how people shop for travel. Comparing prices on the internet you see room night or ticket costs. Unless you do additional research you are unaware of the other fees that are on there. The more they can charge you for off the room night/ticket cost, the cheaper they can make the price look on Expedia.

Its one of the areas where consumer protection should step in to say "you have to disclose all mandatory and optional fees when you quote a price"

Oh, for sure. You see a price of $35 per night, then when you click on it, there is a $37 per night "resort fee"! And oh yes, the resort fee IS taxed, too.

 

[dfb]

Description of Cost Components:


1. Administration and Front Desk - Cost of front desk operations and resort management, including

operating supplies and equipment rental. Also includes costs for operational and administrative

support from the WALT DISNEY WORLD® Resort (“WDW”).

2. Annual Audit - Fee for the independent audit of the Association’s financial statements as required by

Florida law.

3. DVC Reservation Component - Fee paid to Buena Vista Trading Company for providing the exchange

component of the Club central reservation system.

4. Fees to the Division - Annual fee of $2 per Vacation Home per week assessed by the State of Florida for

regulation of the timeshare industry in Florida.

5. Housekeeping - Cost of cleaning Vacation Homes and public areas and replacement of disposable

amenities in Vacation Homes. Also includes the purchase, replacement and cleaning of linens and

towels.

6. Income Taxes - Federal income taxes. Timeshare condominium associations may not claim non-profit

status for federal income tax purposes under current regulations.

7. Insurance - Cost of insurance premiums for property coverage, general liability, workers’ compensation,

crime and Director’s and Officer’s liability.

8. Legal - Cost of legal counsel regarding Association business.

9. Maintenance - Cost of interior and exterior maintenance and repairs not paid for out of replacement

reserves. Also includes landscaping, pest control and fire alarm monitoring.

10. Management Fee - Fee paid to DVCMC for providing management services to the Association according

to the Property Management Agreement. The fee is equal to 12 percent of the total Operating Budget

(total operating expenses less the sum of interest income, Member late fees and interest, and breakage

income) and Capital Reserve Budget exclusive of transportation fees and the management fee.

11. Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort.

Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for

Association legal mailings.

12. Security - Cost of guard coverage at the Resort.

13. Transportation - Cost of WDW transportation provided to the Resort.

14. Utilities - Cost of electricity, gas, water, sewer, solid waste disposal, cable television and telephone

service at the Resort.

The above is the description of expenses listed on the BLT 2016 budget. I know this not the contract, I still haven't dug it out. Looks like we already pay for transportation and recreation activities.

 

[disneynutz]

Bottom line is that Disney can find a way to make more money, they will modify policies. They actively analyze ways to do so daily, if they end up deciding that a resort fee is a negative, they have other ways to increase profit, DDP, tickets, seasonal pricing, less hours, fewer CM's, fewer magic hours, you name it.

Bill

 

[Dean]

I'm guessing, but I'd think the state would have an issue if they double dipped. So if they charge us for parking, parking lot maintenance fees would have to be removed from dues - or at least lowered to account for the additional income in fees. Likewise entertainment. If the resort fee is supposed to cover transportation (buses, monorails, boats), the transportation line item should disappear from the dues.

I doubt the state would care. The could easily frame it as parking, transportation and the like. It's true that there might be some overlap and I would expect that portion to be adjusted if appropriate.

I was really afraid somebody was going to say this ^^. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

While it wouldn't surprise me if it happened, I think it's not likely to come to and if it does I'd say there's a good change that MEMBERS would be exempt.

 

[tjkraz]

Bottom line is that Disney can find a way to make more money, they will modify policies. They actively analyze ways to do so daily, if they end up deciding that a resort fee is a negative, they have other ways to increase profit, DDP, tickets, seasonal pricing, less hours, fewer CM's, fewer magic hours, you name it.

Bill

Every business looks for ways to maximize revenues, streamline operations and increase profitability. In that regard, Disney is no different from any other company.

 

[freediverdude]

To the Disney "suits," charging a resort fee is likely a better course than just raising rooms rates, which it will likely also do. Adding the fee gives them a separate item that they can then raise the price of annually, probably by increments of $4 to $5 like Disney has been doing with park parking fees and valet parking, which dollar-wise does not seem like a huge amount but is actually close to a 30% increase a year. Meanwhile, Disney can keep the room rate increases lower and act like it is doing everything it can to keep the rates from increasing much.

I do not know what the survey actually asked but I hope that in response to whatever was asked the respondents had the good sense to state that the fee would cause them not to reserve a room on site, even if they were not sure about the issue. Disney knows the respondents would not liike it but it was likely just trying to see if it would cause many to switch from staying on-site to off-site. The way Disney has been acting these days with raising prices, I am assuming this is something it has already decided to do unless it clearly appears Disney will lose hotel business because of the fee, i.e., unless most of the respondents condemned the idea and unless huge numbers start writing Disney telling it not to do it, I would expect to see it within the next year.

As to whether a fee could be charged DVC members, I am not clear on the answer yet. The cost of maintaining the resort parking lots is included in dues and the offical documents say you can park in the lots if space is available and say nothing about paying a fee for it. Magical Express might be included as part the transportation charge in dues as long as it is inclided in the phrase "WDW transportsation provided to the resort" which defines the transportation charge. A charge for resort entertainment may be included in the Member Activities charge which includes "cost of recreation operations" at the resort.WiFi costs are likely included in utilities or general administration and operations of the resort. The Magic Bands, though tied to tickets and park entry are also your key to your room so they are likely at least partly in the dues. Thus, we may have reasons for asserting we should not be charged extra for those. But the costs associated with fastpass+ and extra magic hours seem to be costs associated with the price of a park ticket that may not be in any dues item.

I agree, these survey examples that I'm seeing are asking about a la carte fees for all these things separately, and I think it could end up being messy for DVC reservations, where we are exempted from some fees because of member dues but not other fees like you said EMH and fp+. That could get confusing for a lot of people. I would rather that they just increase the dues a little and include those things. I too wasn't sure about whether our dues help pay for Magical Express or not- wondering about that.

 

[drusba]

Now that I have had some time to think about it, my conclusion is that, assuming Disney decides to charge a nightly resort fee that is designed to cover all the cost items mentioned as being part of the charge in the survey, then it is unlikley there will be such a nightly resort fee charged to DVC owners. Besides that all or some of the cost items may already be included in annual dues, the only way they could be charged to members as combined in one "resort fee" is as a common expense charged as part of the annual budget and dues.

The $15 nightly room fee in the survey is designed to cover Disney's Magical Express, MagicBands, FastPass+, Resort entertainment, WiFi, Extra Magic Hours, and parking at the resort and parks. It raises three issues for charging it as a nightly resort fee to owners staying at a resort: (a) is it something that is already included in dues and thus cannot be charged; (b) if not something already included in dues does it have to be included in annual dues if it is going to be a fee that can be charged to members; and (c) is it legal to charge members for the identified costs.

It appears likely that many, and possibly all, of the listed costs are already charges that are included in annual dues. The fact that Disney wants to make it a resort fee itself indicates that it has already been accounting for the listed charges by charging them to the resorts, with the result that the association budget would have already included the costs. DME should be included in the Transportation cost item and WiFi in utilities, Magic Bands, since they are associated with the resort as room keys, would likely be in the general "other expenses" that the association needs to cover in the budget, see Bylaws section VI.1. Resort entertainment would likely be included in Member Activities as a charge for rent of recreational and other common facilities at the resort, id. The outliers are costs of Fastpass+, extra magic hours and parking at the parks, but I am guessing those are things actually already being charged to the operations of the resort and thus things the association may be charging as other expenses as operational support items in the administrative budget item. Thus, at least for some of the items and possibly all that are mentioned, they are already included in dues, and charging members a resort fee would be improper double billing. Moreover, the association budget needs to be based on costs of the services, not costs plus a profit.

Even if any of the items are not currently charged to members in the annual dues, they really cannot be added as a nightly resort fee payable by all the members when they stay at the resort. It is possible that some of suggested charges could be made to members and others based on actual use of the service, e.g., a member could be required to pay a parking fee when he parks at the parks, or a DME fee when he uses DME, or an extra fee for Extra Magic Hours when he goes. However, to do that Disney would have to take any related charges already in the annual budget out of the budget. To charge the costs as some combined resort fee chargeable to all members when they stay at the resort makes it a common ecpense of the resort. The DVC resorts are not Disney Hotels to which Disney can just tack on a nightly resort fee when it feels like it.The resorts are legally the responsibility of the applicable DVC association (and its chosen management company, DVCMC) and if there is to be some general resort fee to cover the costs of any items provided by another Disney entity, the only way it can get charged to the members is as a common expense which legally must be part of the annual budget and charged as part of annual dues, not as some nightly fee.

Finally, there is one charge I doubt can legally be charged to WDW DVC owners at all, even as part of annual dues, and that is a fee to park at the resort (other than assisted parking like valet). When you purchase, you get an ownership interest in the common elements and a right to use those, and also the obligation to contribute dues to maintain them. That right alone might not be enough to avoid rental charges for items at the resort, but for parking there is a separate right. As part of the purchase, owners are granted an easement to the roadways, walkways and parking lots at the resort which includes a right to park in available parking spaces. See, e.g., Declarations 4.1(c). Since you paid in full for that easement right as part of the purchase price, Disney should not now legally be allowed to start charging additional fees for owners to park at the DVC resorts.

 

[Savagekids]

Senator McCaskill is introducing a bill to get rid of resort fees. It looks like it will weak legislation, if it would ever pass, but write your congressmen anyway. Even if the resort fees don't get applied to DVC, I'm most people stay other places and I doubt anyone enjoys the fees.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ces-bill-against-hidden-resort-fees/80935922/

 

[Mrs. Magic]

I became a DVC owner so that I wouldn't have to worry about these kinds of things. We pay fees that the general public doesn't... So Disney needs to acknowledge that and exempt us from resort fees.

 

[DougEMG]

Aren't most of those items already part of our MF, so I really doubt that we will see a resort fee for DVC members.

 

[DebbieB]

There was a post about another survey that someone received. It gave options for paying items separately. Like $20 per person for DME roundtrip. I think it would be hard to stick DVC members with the resort fee with every check-in but I could see if they itemized separately, they could hit us for some. They would just need to verify that we are not being charged for that in dues.

 

[Dean]

There was a post about another survey that someone received. It gave options for paying items separately. Like $20 per person for DME roundtrip. I think it would be hard to stick DVC members with the resort fee with every check-in but I could see if they itemized separately, they could hit us for some. They would just need to verify that we are not being charged for that in dues.

Exactly. DME would be an easy one to do pay to play. If they did a resort services fee it'd need to be for items that are not currently formally being paid for by the resort dues. But they could even do it with transportation because all that's currently being paid for by the dues is the transportation directly related to a given resort, busses plus boats in some cases. It doesn't formally cover other transportation. Even then they could make it where you didn't pay if you were staying at the home resort but everyone else did pay. I can see them instituting a resort fee, it's very common in the industry, but I doubt it'll apply to members staying on points.

 

[Splashboat]

For my family DME free, versus a charge, has definitely made a difference in our planning. We have said numerous times that not charging extra for this service was one of the smartest things Disney has done.

We keep saying we are going to begin, or end, a Disney trip with a few days at Universal. When push comes to shove, we never book it because we really don't like driving or dealing with getting a transportation service in Florida - not to mention the luggage service. If we start getting charged for DME we will definitely try Universal before, or after, our Disney stay which will shorten our Disney stay.

I am sure there are plenty of you that will not relate to this logic but the extra money and aggravation of transportation has kept us from Universal. If we start paying for DME (even if it is less than a car rental, Uber...) we will definitely try veering of the Disney track.

 

[CarolMN]

Why would we assume that the resort's are not paying for DME? I am very sure that every WDW resort is being charged for it. In fact, having worked for a large corporation, it's a good bet that all the costs of transportation are cross charged to the various profit centers within Disney. I would be very surprised to see those costs "unbundled" from dues and charged as a resort fee.

 

[keishashadow]

Parking fees are standard in the industry. Since DVC is touted as "home" for many of us, would think we'd be exempt from any when staying on points. I do think they could reasonably limit the accommodation to one vehicle per bedroom booked.

Further, as I expressed in main thread, think the resort lots should go to key card system as most resorts use.

Onsite guests should have a convenient, dedicated area to park. Those who are dining (and often dashing to the parks ala BWV/BCV/VWL & the monorail resorts) should be directed to general parking area. Non-guests do have valet option if they don't want to hunt for a self-parking spot.

WDW is booming, they will churn whatever $ they can. Don't see it as a stretch for ME & magic bands to morph into an ala carte item.

 

[hakepb]

Why would we assume that the resort's are not paying for DME? I am very sure that every WDW resort is being charged for it. In fact, having worked for a large corporation, it's a good bet that all the costs of transportation are cross charged to the various profit centers within Disney. I would be very surprised to see those costs "unbundled" from dues and charged as a resort fee.

Parks and dining greatly benefit from DME.
The whole point of DME is to eliminate the need for a rental car, making it less likely that a guest will travel off site for dining and other parks.
The DME cost should not be fully funded by resorts only.

 

[hakepb]

Could you imagine the poor souls at the SSR front desk if parking was charged at THV?

It would be a constant war!