Work Vacation issue. WWYD?

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

That is what I was thinking.

If it is important to you that your mom is there, then you discuss it with her.

My parents, his parents . . all had input.

Exactly my parents were the first people we discussed it with. Omg the thought of them not there! Plus we hosted it close to where everyone could come thinking mainly of my closest family members.

 

[Minnesota!]

FWIW – what we do in my department (5 person department).

Each November, boss sends out an email that asks for your days off. She isn’t so much looking for the random days in February you will need, but for the popular times.

Then, you need to rank them in order.

99% of the time, you get your first pick, at minimum. From there, if there is competition, she goes with where it is ranked/seniority/etc.

We work it out, amongst ourselves, if there is conflict. And, if you run out of time during the year, before the “big days” are here, the next person in line, providing they have time left, get a crack at the day. If nobody else wants it in that case, you can take it unpaid.

My first choice is always day after Thanksgiving. Everyone else goes for Christmas, so it is very rare that I have to shuffle. About 14 years ago, I did have to bump a long-tenured associate because my grandpa died and his funeral was going to be over the 4th of July, 700 miles away. That did not sit well with that associate, but it just goes to show how decent our boss is with that time off if that was the first time in her long career that she had to jockey for time…

 

[focusondisney]

I mentioned this in my last post but I wonder what some businesses would do with a law similar to the one MA now has. Here all employees in companies with more then 11 people must be given a minimum number of sick days (paid) that work can not penalize them for using (I think it may be a week, I know that is what our interns now get... but they don't work a full year so that may not be right)

So I wonder what this employer would do if someone was on vacation and the flu went around the office and multiple people used sick time too.

Interesting law. Do you know what they mean by "can not penalize" ? For example, we can use a sick day on a weekend but must make it up by working another weekend in the following month. Would that make up be considered a penalty & thus not allowed? Same thing for a holiday, if you call in sick on a holiday, you must work an extra "make up" holiday within the next year.

 

[kamik86]

Interesting law. Do you know what they mean by "can not penalize" ? For example, we can use a sick day on a weekend but must make it up by working another weekend in the following month. Would that make up be considered a penalty & thus not allowed? Same thing for a holiday, if you call in sick on a holiday, you must work an extra "make up" holiday within the next year.

No idea... it was only explained to me as much as it applies to our company and those things dont' come up here.

For us it meant they had to make a category that managers couldn't say "No there is a big meeting/test event/ whatever that week you can't take it off"

I always figured it just meant they couldn't fire you for taking the day off.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is how the MA Earned Sick Time law reads:

http://www.mass.gov/ago/doing-busin...place-rights/leave-time/earned-sick-time.html

Interesting law. Do you know what they mean by "can not penalize" ? For example, we can use a sick day on a weekend but must make it up by working another weekend in the following month. Would that make up be considered a penalty & thus not allowed? Same thing for a holiday, if you call in sick on a holiday, you must work an extra "make up" holiday within the next year.

I think your question would be answered here (though I am no lawyer), under "Retaliation/Undesirable Assignments". There is a website at the end for questions:

http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/workplace/earned-sick-time/est-presentation.ppt

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

About 14 years ago, I did have to bump a long-tenured associate because my grandpa died and his funeral was going to be over the 4th of July, 700 miles away. That did not sit well with that associate, but it just goes to show how decent our boss is with that time off if that was the first time in her long career that she had to jockey for time…

My last job and my husband's current job had/have bereavement leave time built in. Since they had that in the policy as a benefit they could not deny you if you needed to us the time (which did not have to be consecutive days either). At least at my last job your supervisor (because they didn't have managers just supervisors) could ask for proof (such as the obit or some paper from the funeral) if they wanted to. Bereavement was separate from PTO/Sick days. Bereavement policy I admit is a nice benefit and if it works out with the company dynamics/needs, etc can help smooth over those times when an employee may have to be gone from work due to an unexpected loss that may interfere with another employee's already granted time off.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm surprised your just changing to this... my job had that PTO type thing 7 years ago when I joined and is now being forced to split out sick time. MA just passed a law that everyone MUST have at least a minimum number of sick days that work can not penalize you for taking any day you choose (wow just realized how much that would mess up a system like the OPs if they were in MA two people could call in sick the same day and the manager would just have to deal with it because they couldn't force either to come in).

From the above link to the powerpoint:

§Employers that provide 40 or more hours of PTO or vacation to employees that also may be used as earned sick time shall not be required to provide additional sick leave to employees who use all their time for other purposes, provided that the employers’ leave policies make clear that additional time will not be provided.

To me, that sounds like companies can continue PTO plans.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A little more detail to the "Retaliation" component of the law:

"Section 9: Retaliation Prohibited

Q: Can an employer retaliate against an employee for using earned sick time?

A: No. Retaliation is illegal. An employer cannot retaliate against an employee for exercising or attempting to exercise rights under the law, including: requesting and using earned sick time; filing a complaint for alleged violations of the law; communicating with any person, including coworkers, about any violation of the law; participating in an administrative or judicial action regarding an alleged violation of the law; or informing another person of that person’s potential rights.

Q: What constitutes retaliation?

A: Retaliation includes any threat, discipline, discharge, demotion, suspension, or reduction in employee hours, or any other adverse employment action against any employee for exercising or attempting to exercise any right guaranteed under the law.

Q: Does the law protect an employee from retaliation if the employee mistakenly, but in good faith, alleges a violation?A: Yes.

Q: What about reward based attendance policies?

A: Attendance policies that reward employees for good attendance and holiday pay incentives that provide extra compensation for coming to work on the days immediately before and after a holiday are permissible so long as employees are not subject to any adverse actions for exercising their rights under the Earned Sick Time law and its regulations.

An employee’s inability to earn a reward for good attendance or to receive a holiday pay incentive based on an employee’s absence occasioning use of earned sick time shall not constitute an adverse action or interference with an employee’s rights."

http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/workplace/earned-sick-time/est-faqs.pdf

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Looks like Sam and I are on the same page here. A first come, first serve model is inherently more fair than a seniority system. In one system, everyone has a chance. In one system, only a certain group has a chance. This point cannot be argued.

Now, when it comes to people abusing holidays, in theory this can happen. But then a manager needs to put on his big boy pants and essentially tell the abuser that they can't have all the holidays. The manager will simply tell the person to work it out with her divisional colleagues to decide who gets which holidays. If they can't work it out like big boys, then the manager will use his discretion.

As for non holidays, whoever sent in the email first gets it. If Mary wants to request the first 2 weeks of June every single year, go for it.

 

[Saimaeve]

This makes me supremely grateful my company offers "unlimited" vacation time. O.O

 

[Pacolovestacos]

This makes me supremely grateful my company offers "unlimited" vacation time. O.O

I've had companies that offered that before. Let me ask you this: Do you take 52 weeks off per year?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This makes me supremely grateful my company offers "unlimited" vacation time. O.O

And studies have shown that generally employees who have unlimited vacation time actually use LESS vacation time than if they had an actual number to go off of. It can, depending on the metrics used, be a win for the company...not so much for you

 

[Saimaeve]

And studies have shown that generally employees who have unlimited vacation time actually use LESS vacation time than if they had an actual number to go off of. It can, depending on the metrics used, be a win for the company...not so much for you

We've been doing it for a while and people are happy with it. We don't have to worry about planning 12 months in advance or fighting over who has been here the longest. I have a co-worker that was flying to Brazil today, so he let me know he'd be out for the day and all of his work had been finished. I took a quick trip with my husband a couple months ago, and didn't have to stress it.

We've always been pretty lax about personal time off as long as our clients are happy and things get done. I take more time off now than I did when we did somewhat track time off.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We've been doing it for a while and people are happy with it. We don't have to worry about planning 12 months in advance or fighting over who has been here the longest. I have a co-worker that was flying to Brazil today, so he let me know he'd be out for the day and all of his work had been finished. I took a quick trip with my husband a couple months ago, and didn't have to stress it.

We've always been pretty lax about personal time off as long as our clients are happy and things get done. I take more time off now than I did when we did somewhat track time off.

It works for some companies but it completely depends on the actual workplace culture. If you have a workplace culture that can thrive on the unlimited philosophy you'll have a greater chance of a win-win for both the employee and the company.

More than likely what employees want is flexibility in time off such as ability to make up time, ability to leave at a moment's notice if needed, ability to work what hours work best for them as long as the work is done (which could mean not the normal 9-5 m-f type thing), etc.

Unlimited time off can lead to people not knowing how much is too much, when can they actually use it, could they get in trouble for taking every Friday off for example. One company found that instead of employees taking whole weeks off they actually started taking just individual days off (many times creating 3-day weekends for example) and it changed their workplace culture. Other studies did show that unlimited vacation policies resulted in no more or no less vacation days being used so yes it will depend on place to place

It's a good thing it works for you absolutely but unlimited vacation policies are ones where in most cases it looks great on paper to an employee but doesn't live up to its expectation. FWIW there are about 1% of US companies that have the unlimited model.

 

[Saimaeve]

It works for some companies but it completely depends on the actual workplace culture. If you have a workplace culture that can thrive on the unlimited philosophy you'll have a greater chance of a win-win for both the employee and the company.

More than likely what employees want is flexibility in time off such as ability to make up time, ability to leave at a moment's notice if needed, ability to work what hours work best for them as long as the work is done (which could mean not the normal 9-5 m-f type thing), etc.

Unlimited time off can lead to people not knowing how much is too much, when can they actually use it, could they get in trouble for taking every Friday off for example. One company found that instead of employees taking whole weeks off they actually started taking just individual days off (many times creating 3-day weekends for example) and it changed their workplace culture. Other studies did show that unlimited vacation policies resulted in no more or no less vacation days being used so yes it will depend on place to place

It's a good thing it works for you absolutely but unlimited vacation policies are ones where in most cases it looks great on paper to an employee but doesn't live up to its expectation. FWIW there are about 1% of US companies that have the unlimited model.

And this is what we have. We're also a somewhat younger aged company and work in a creative field. So a lot of us travel a lot. We work remotely so we as long as our work gets done, they don't really care when we do it. I do a huge portion of my work late at night

It doesn't always have to be "just good on paper"

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And this is what we have. We're also a somewhat younger aged company and work in a creative field. So a lot of us travel a lot. We work remotely so we as long as our work gets done, they don't really care when we do it. I do a huge portion of my work late at night

It doesn't always have to be "just good on paper"

True, but your company is remote....that in itself is a huge reason why unlimited probably works for you. In a traditional corporate office style it just doesn't tend to work out: think about it in the terms that roughly 99% of the US companies don't have unlimited policy.

Remote-only companies and office style type work environments tend to be structured differently due to workplace environments and type of work.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

The unlimited vaca model doesn't impact the holiday scheduling. Just because all employees have unlimited vaca doesn't mean they can all take Christmas Eve off. Work would still need to be done that day so some people are going to have show up whether they like it or not.

 

[Minnesota!]

My last job and my husband's current job had/have bereavement leave time built in. Since they had that in the policy as a benefit they could not deny you if you needed to us the time (which did not have to be consecutive days either). At least at my last job your supervisor (because they didn't have managers just supervisors) could ask for proof (such as the obit or some paper from the funeral) if they wanted to. Bereavement was separate from PTO/Sick days. Bereavement policy I admit is a nice benefit and if it works out with the company dynamics/needs, etc can help smooth over those times when an employee may have to be gone from work due to an unexpected loss that may interfere with another employee's already granted time off.

We get 3 days paid, without taking any vacation/personal, for funerals of parents, kids, spouses, grandparents. It's just that over the 4th, I WAS the skeleton crew, and had no problem with being it. So, boss had already given everyone else the time off. So, when she had to bump someone, with seniority, it was a sore point.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

This makes me supremely grateful my company offers "unlimited" vacation time. O.O

Unfortunately, that simply wouldn't work for all jobs. For example, I couldn't just let the entire receiving department off at the same time. Just like telecommuting - I've had jobs that would work very well with telecommuting, and some that wouldn't work at all, including my current position.

But, if you do have such a job AND an employer willing to consider that, the flexibility is nice.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We get 3 days paid, without taking any vacation/personal, for funerals of parents, kids, spouses, grandparents. It's just that over the 4th, I WAS the skeleton crew, and had no problem with being it. So, boss had already given everyone else the time off. So, when she had to bump someone, with seniority, it was a sore point.

Oh I see. That does put you in a bind when you are the skeleton crew needing the time off for a specific reason like a funeral.