Women's only racing -- Taking back my opinion....

[cloudnut220]

I have absolutely no problem with this provided:

• There is no handicapping (meaning you don't get docked or advanced corral places because of your gender). You get into the corral you qualify for. If I can run a 90 minute half and a woman can run a 90 minute half we start at the same time in the same coral.
• Both sexes are eligible for the same awards (overall and age group) and finisher's medals if they are presented. There is absolutely no reason not to considering you are not competing against each other for these awards.

I don't care about having a gender-centric theme or marketing.

I agree with you. Docking corrals seems silly to me--it's annoying for you and the people you're weaving around.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I have absolutely no problem with this provided:

• There is no handicapping (meaning you don't get docked or advanced corral places because of your gender). You get into the corral you qualify for. If I can run a 90 minute half and a woman can run a 90 minute half we start at the same time in the same coral.
• Both sexes are eligible for the same awards (overall and age group) and finisher's medals if they are presented. There is absolutely no reason not to considering you are not competing against each other for these awards.

I don't care about having a gender-centric theme or marketing.

That is absolutely fair. I do think that the main purpose for the women's centered races is the money. Look at the Princess Expo compared with the WDW Expo, and even the DL one...there was a lot more stuff to buy at the Princess Expo! Doesn't explain why they discontinued their Princess training gear. But, I think that theme is one thing which naturally would exclude some, but excluding one gender over the other is completely different.

 

[FireDancer]

I couldn't agree with you more. If these women's oriented races were hugely profitable then we wouldn't be seeing such an explosion in their growth. Likewise I'm convinced that if a race organizer could figure out a way to make a men's oriented race as profitable they would do it in a heartbeat.

I said this before but I would wager that the vast majority of people who participate in Disney events are white. Now, if the metrics showed that white participants spent more money at the expos, signed up in greater numbers, and were the more profitable participants in events (the same argument put forward here for women) would everyone be just as ok with Disney having an event where white participants were the only ones eligible for race awards or where non-white participants are docked corals? Even if Disney (or whomever was running the event) could prove with accounting that this was an economically advantageous event model not only would they not even attempt it but if they did they would experience a huge backlash.

Not only in this circumstance but in many others it seems that as long as the only people who are treated as less then equals are men it is just fine. Take almost any situation (with some exceptions I'm sure) and replace male with female, black, Christian, Muslim, immigrant, or just about any other designation and the same exact exclusion or inequality would almost always no longer be accepted.

It is what it is, I get that, but I can't be convinced it is not wrong. Just my opinion.

 

[CALIFLADY]

I'll be unpolitically correct and say...

I LIKE running all-women's races. There's just a whole different feel on the course when there's no testosterone out there. It just seems calmer, less frenetic. The first 5K I ever ran was a Susan G. Komen run. I think I saw three guys on the course (this was back in the 90's). It was THAT race and that feeling that made me want to train and run more. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have trained and run more had it been a fully blended 5K, but the peace on that course that morning was just perfect!

Do I think the (running) world is perfect? No. But I take the peace where I can get it.

 

[SAHDad]

I'll be unpolitically correct and say...

I LIKE running all-women's races. There's just a whole different feel on the course when there's no testosterone out there. It just seems calmer, less frenetic. The first 5K I ever ran was a Susan G. Komen run. I think I saw three guys on the course (this was back in the 90's). It was THAT race and that feeling that made me want to train and run more. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have trained and run more had it been a fully blended 5K, but the peace on that course that morning was just perfect!

Do I think the (running) world is perfect? No. But I take the peace where I can get it.

Fine. But if a guy said "I really enjoyed running an all-male race. There was no one dressed in pink & glitter, no fairy wings, no chattering resevoirs of estrogen - just a bunch of guys all trying to run each other into the ground. I crashed and burned, but being stomped by a bunch of geezers made me train harder for the next year*" - I don't think anyone on this board, or any board for that matter, would be defending him.

The Susan G Komen runs tried to be women-only as long as possible. I think it was the threat of lawsuits from male survivors that finally made them change their minds.

* Deliberately trying to be as offensive as possible here. I don't subscribe to any of that statement.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I'll be unpolitically correct and say...

I LIKE running all-women's races. There's just a whole different feel on the course when there's no testosterone out there. It just seems calmer, less frenetic. The first 5K I ever ran was a Susan G. Komen run. I think I saw three guys on the course (this was back in the 90's). It was THAT race and that feeling that made me want to train and run more. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have trained and run more had it been a fully blended 5K, but the peace on that course that morning was just perfect!

Do I think the (running) world is perfect? No. But I take the peace where I can get it.

Susan G. Komen races are just different in general - you are surrounded by Cancer Survivors and their families and friends and can't help but feel great and I honestly thought the same thing happened with the Princess Half being my first race...I thought that the DL half would be such a different race that I wouldn't enjoy myself. That essentially that would be my last race. Turns out I enjoy the combined gender races a bit more now for one thing - the practical reasons - shorter porta potty lines! I never felt at the WDW Marathon or the DL half that there was not a support group there...in fact, I found the support group at the WDW Marathon to be superior to that at the Princess. When I ran the Princess there were a lot more groups and although people were friendly, I didn't see fellow runners encouraging people to keep going like I did at the WDW Marathon.

I think that the Princess Race could easily be the Prince and Princess race and still make the amount of money that it does. In fact, it would make a lot more!

 

[FireDancer]

I think that the Princess Race could easily be the Prince and Princess race and still make the amount of money that it does. In fact, it would make a lot more!

I think that is a huge marketing fail for Disney. Do a race weekend with a female-centric race on Saturday and a male-centric one on Sunday (or the other way around). Do a bonus medal for doing both and in each allow both genders to run on equal terms (both races have age group awards for both genders and both base corals on time only). One would just be geared towards one gender while the other is geared towards the other.

If someone wants to use the profit argument for the races this should be right up their ally. I suspect that this wouldn't greatly increase the percentage of male runners in the woman's race. In fact I think that even keeping the weekend as it is and allowing men to start in the right place and get age group awards wouldn't change the gender breakdown much so why not just do it? There are still only so many males who want a princess medal and race shirt.

 

[Rose&Mike]

Fine. But if a guy said "I really enjoyed running an all-male race. There was no one dressed in pink & glitter, no fairy wings, no chattering resevoirs of estrogen - just a bunch of guys all trying to run each other into the ground. I crashed and burned, but being stomped by a bunch of geezers made me train harder for the next year*" - I don't think anyone on this board, or any board for that matter, would be defending him.

I would have no problem at all with this. I have a 20 yo son and a DH and if either one wanted to run a mens only race I would 100 percent support them, just like they would and do 100 percent support me when I run the Princess.

 

[SAHDad]

I would have no problem at all with this. I have a 20 yo son and a DH and if either one wanted to run a mens only race I would 100 percent support them, just like they would and do 100 percent support me when I run the Princess.

That is as may be, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that, if Disney announced a race centered on men, the howls of outrage, here and elsewhere on the internet, would make the complaints over the Tink seem infinitesimal.

 

[Bookwood]

Fine. But if a guy said "I really enjoyed running an all-male race. There was no one dressed in pink & glitter, no fairy wings, no chattering resevoirs of estrogen - just a bunch of guys all trying to run each other into the ground. I crashed and burned, but being stomped by a bunch of geezers made me train harder for the next year*" - I don't think anyone on this board, or any board for that matter, would be defending him.

The Susan G Komen runs tried to be women-only as long as possible. I think it was the threat of lawsuits from male survivors that finally made them change their minds.

* Deliberately trying to be as offensive as possible here. I don't subscribe to any of that statement.

I would defend you (maybe not the language LOL but the idea!) to me if they want to have a Pirate race go for it or if there are men only races I'm not offended. I grew up during the passage of title (9 or 10 or whatever) was an athlete in college denied a scholarship the guys in my sport got I'm all for everyone doing what they want and not whinning about it. If you don't like the way the race is structured don't run it, don't complain about the race find a different one that agrees with your politcal ideas and do it.

 

[FireDancer]

I would have no problem at all with this. I have a 20 yo son and a DH and if either one wanted to run a mens only race I would 100 percent support them, just like they would and do 100 percent support me when I run the Princess.

That is as may be, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that, if Disney announced a race centered on men, the howls of outrage, here and elsewhere on the internet, would make the complaints over the Tink seem infinitesimal.

I have no doubt that the majority of female runners wouldn't care if there was male-only race but that isn't where the double standard exists, it is societal. I would bet my mortgage that groups like NOW and even the mainstream media in general would react to a male only race (where women were told they could run but weren't important enough for an award and had to take a coral handicap) very differently then they do to the opposite especially if it was a big event put on by Disney. That is the double standard, not on the individual level but on the societal level and there is no excuse for it.

Since I can't change society all I can do is make my opinion known and decide not to run races put on by RunDisney.

 

[fashionista311]

oh lordy, sometimes i really should just stay out of these internet dramaz.

SAHDad you are right..double standards isn't the right word. More like men and women are never going to be the same...and that's ok. But I still think there is a stigma against strong/athletic girls. In the more "serious" running circles, women are looked down upon if they are too "girly". And still I can't tell you how many women are afraid to work out because they don't "want to look too muscular - it's not feminine". Well I'll be damned - I will get my sub 4-hour marathon and Ironman finish *one day*...and be ready to blow dry my hair, put on my makeup, change into an adorable little outfit and slip on my heels (errrr ok maybe cute flats) for a fabulous afternoon of brunch, champagne and shopping afterwards. (or maybe first pass out..and be fabulous after some sleep. whateves) And if I have a daughter, I want her to grow up in a world where it's ok to be a strong woman and to be feminine too. And that's why I love participating in women-only races from time to time - I think that's the exact message they send out. (ok and it makes me feel a little faster )

Now that being said...if we are being specific to disney races, I think they could care less about the messages they send out, and the more about the bottom dollar. if they think they can make more money on a race by being women-specific, that's what they will do. If the tinkerbell race doesn't make enough money, you'll bet it will be rethemed to be more inclusive.

 

[SAHDad]

oh lordy, sometimes i really should just stay out of these internet dramaz.

SAHDad you are right..double standards isn't the right word. More like men and women are never going to be the same...and that's ok. But I still think there is a stigma against strong/athletic girls. In the more "serious" running circles, women are looked down upon if they are too "girly". And still I can't tell you how many women are afraid to work out because they don't "want to look too muscular - it's not feminine". Well I'll be damned - I will get my sub 4-hour marathon and Ironman finish *one day*...and be ready to blow dry my hair, put on my makeup, change into an adorable little outfit and slip on my heels (errrr ok maybe cute flats) for a fabulous afternoon of brunch, champagne and shopping afterwards. (or maybe first pass out..and be fabulous after some sleep. whateves) And if I have a daughter, I want her to grow up in a world where it's ok to be a strong woman and to be feminine too. And that's why I love participating in women-only races from time to time - I think that's the exact message they send out. (ok and it makes me feel a little faster )

Ah, but from my perspective, there is this - DS is only 7, but he is already figuring out that there are programs aimed for girls in school and in the community, but aside from Scouts, there isn't much for him. He can join the youth soccer program (for boys and girls), but not Girls on the Run. He can do the summer reading at the library, but not the programs for girls who want to be scientists. (And, while everyone argues that we need more women in STEM fields, there doesn't seem to be nearly the push to get boys into teaching, but that's another matter.) He sees it - and it is not all my doing. (Some, sure - but I try hard to keep that rant from the kids.)

FWIW - while the running groups I used to run with weren't super-serious, I never saw anyone getting flak.

Now that being said...if we are being specific to disney races, I think they could care less about the messages they send out, and the more about the bottom dollar. if they think they can make more money on a race by being women-specific, that's what they will do. If the tinkerbell race doesn't make enough money, you'll bet it will be rethemed to be more inclusive.

But, no matter what the bottom line is, I do not forsee Disney making a man-specific (or themed) race anytime soon. The social downside is just too likely, and too costly.

 

[cewait]

(ok and it makes me feel a little faster )

Not entering the discussion other than to say that I run Disney to feel faster. Disney races tend to be slower to a point where I finish top 20% at Disney as compared with just barely making top half at local races.


Ok back to the drama.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I think that is a huge marketing fail for Disney. Do a race weekend with a female-centric race on Saturday and a male-centric one on Sunday (or the other way around). Do a bonus medal for doing both and in each allow both genders to run on equal terms (both races have age group awards for both genders and both base corals on time only). One would just be geared towards one gender while the other is geared towards the other.

If someone wants to use the profit argument for the races this should be right up their ally. I suspect that this wouldn't greatly increase the percentage of male runners in the woman's race. In fact I think that even keeping the weekend as it is and allowing men to start in the right place and get age group awards wouldn't change the gender breakdown much so why not just do it? There are still only so many males who want a princess medal and race shirt.

I know I wouldn't be offended if there was a Prince race one day geared towards guys and a Princess race geared towards ladies the next day. To me, it is kind of like being offended because you can't participate in the kids races which I would love to - but I don't have kids and am far from being one myself.

Disney would not have a PR nightmare with that option at all and may actually start a new trend.

I agree with Coach on the reason why I run at Disney. But, whenever I do get to the London Marathon, I will be in for a rude awakening! No Disney race is a serious race...and perhaps that is why some may be offended by who a race is geared to.

In the end, Disney doesn't care if they offend you, they just care about making money. The moment something isn't profitable, is the moment that is not offered anymore.

 

[Danhockey04]

I think the worst part is that they are geared toward women but men can participate and if they do, some of the runners are rude toward them for running in a women centered event. It never said women only, just women focused. I'm not saying all women do it, but when i ran the princess half, there were some glares cause I was a male in a female centered race. It seemed more like the runners in the back corrals were the ones upset and the front corrals were cool with it, though it seemed like it was split in corral b. I did get lots of encouragement and props for wearing a pink princess costume, but there are always some people that believe an event like that should be all women even though men can sign up and they now are offering guy cut shirts at the women events in Disney. But its the attitude of some of the women that make it really unfriendly and a bad experience. Though most were inviting and friendly.