women wearing hats during the Anthem

[shrubber]

Great typo in that last line.
WWFS?
(What would Freud say?)

*snicker*

 

[robinb]

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

So, do we have to stand or remove our hats just reading it?

 

[Judy in Texas]

I don't see a good reason why anyone should remove their hat. Doing something because that's just how it's always been seems a little outdated in the 21st century.

By the way, I'm still very respectful of this country and our flag, but I just don't understand how a hate symbolizes that.

Removing your hat shows respect... period. Not just for the flag and national anthem; but, when honoring a fallen hero's whose funeral procession is passing, for example. If you don't take your hat off, do you at least stand up and put your hand over your heart or is that outdated also?

 

[FireDancer]

wow, that's very sad that you don't care about the flag.

I didn't say I don't care about the flag or our country. I said I don't care what the heck other people do with the covering for their head. I am not going to nanny other people into standing, putting their hand on their heart, and removing their hat if they don't want. I don't care.

There are so many examples of people telling other people what they "should" do. Don't hang you laundry in the yard, don't wear a hat indoors. Don't put a fence up around your property. There are threads full of people trying to tell other people what thy should or shouldn't do. We should just worry about ourselves and let other people do what they want provided they aren't breaking any laws.

FireDancer never said he didn't care about the flag.

Respect is about what is in your heart. Not about what is on your head.

Just because you take your hat off doesn't mean a whit about what you respect.

. "Because we always did it that way" is one of the stupidest reasons to do anything. Especially when it stems from the way knights saluted each other hundreds of years ago. I also love how after women fought for equal rights they have different hat rules, how the heck does that make sense.

I stand for the national anthem and I haven't worn a hat in years so I never have one on. If someone else wants to sit there with his hat pulled down and arms crossed I don't care. I am not going to tell another grown adult or child I didn't father what to do. I just worry about me.

 

[DarthKTrava]

If I wear a hat to a sporting event, I will remove it during the Anthem. No doubt about it. It's not just limited to men only.

 

[DizBelle]

I didn't say I don't care about the flag or our country. I said I don't care what the heck other people do with the covering for their head. I am not going to nanny other people into standing, putting their hand on their heart, and removing their hat if they don't want. I don't care.

There are so many examples of people telling other people what they "should" do. Don't hang you laundry in the yard, don't wear a hat indoors. Don't put a fence up around your property. There are threads full of people trying to tell other people what thy should or shouldn't do. We should just worry about ourselves and let other people do what they want provided they aren't breaking any laws.



. "Because we always did it that way" is one of the stupidest reasons to do anything. Especially when it stems from the way knights saluted each other hundreds of years ago. I also love how after women fought for equal rights they have different hat rules, how the heck does that make sense.

I stand for the national anthem and I haven't worn a hat in years so I never have one on. If someone else wants to sit there with his hat pulled down and arms crossed I don't care. I am not going to tell another grown adult or child I didn't father what to do. I just worry about me.

I knew I liked you, FireDancer.

 

[MouseketeerOvaHere]

Because I like the song? And it has no mention of god. At least not in the first stanza that we all sing.

So does that mean you don't spend American currency, you know, since it says in God we trust on it and all?!

I'm astounded by how many people on this board are not aware of military history. This is your country, you should do everything in your power to display the respect for it. By no means is the American government perfect but there is no where else in the world where I feel more safe and have the most rights. And those who fought to give us those rights, is why you stand, remove your hat and sing your national anthem.

 

[Planogirl]

I personally think that respect for the military goes a bit deeper than removing a hat but whatever floats your boat. I believe that our freedom of expression is more important than removing a hat (even though I believe people should stand and be quiet or sing during the national anthem).

 

[Sparx]

i think its a sad day in america when the only way to let your neighbors know about your national pride by taking off your hat.

 

[MouseketeerOvaHere]

i think its a sad day in america when the only way to let your neighbors know about your national pride by taking off your hat.

We're talking about sporting events. Not painting your garage into the flag.

 

[DramaQueen]

I'm from Canada and I've never found that the taking off of the hat thing is such a big deal up here. Whenever I'm at a sporting event I'd say 60 maybe 70% of people take their hats off (mostly men), we don't cover our hearts or have a pledge of allegiance of anything like that. I don't know where the taking the hat off comes from, and I'm not sure why that's the only way to show respect to your country, I think standing up and singing the anthem is respectful in itself.

But anyways by reading some of this thread it seems as though things are much different up here (at least in my part), I'd probably take off a baseball cap (not that I'd ever be wearing one ), but a knitted hat, or a headband, most likely not.

 

[Tink_Or_Belle]

I don't agree with doing things because thats the way they have always been done as an excuse



in the 60's Abbie Hoffman was arrested for wearing a shirt that looked like the American Flag and by the early 90's that guy who sings Proud To Be an American was wearing a very similar flag shirt and it was considered patriotic. Now there are tons of people wearing flag shirts coats hats etc. Should that not have changed either should those people wearing the flag shirts all be arrested? because thats the way it WAS back in the day.

 

[robinb]

So does that mean you don't spend American currency, you know, since it says in God we trust on it and all?!

I'm astounded by how many people on this board are not aware of military history. This is your country, you should do everything in your power to display the respect for it. By no means is the American government perfect but there is no where else in the world where I feel more safe and have the most rights. And those who fought to give us those rights, is why you stand, remove your hat and sing your national anthem.

You're not picking on me , but the money argument is a red herring. I have no choice but to spend money with a motto I do not agree with it. Maybe that's why I use my credit or debit card for everything . I *do* have a choice in which public displays of "patriotism" I participate in. That choice is written on our country's founding documents. Is this a great country, or what?!?

 

[DancingBear]

I don't agree with doing things because thats the way they have always been done as an excuse



in the 60's Abbie Hoffman was arrested for wearing a shirt that looked like the American Flag and by the early 90's that guy who sings Proud To Be an American was wearing a very similar flag shirt and it was considered patriotic. Now there are tons of people wearing flag shirts coats hats etc. Should that not have changed either should those people wearing the flag shirts all be arrested? because thats the way it WAS back in the day.

I think you are conflating two unrelated issues. Maintaining social customs (even those embodied in law, as is the U.S. flag code) is not antithetical to protecting free speech.

Following custom is not just done "because that's the way it's always been done", it's because it conveys a message that is understood by the community (and shared by most of the community).

If you respect the flag/anthem/pledge then you should demonstrate that respect by following the customs. If you wish to exercise your free speech rights by acting contrary to those customs (as Robin chooses to do during the pledge), then by all means do so.

If you choose to ignore the customs just because you think they are old-fashioned, don't be surprised if that is taken as a show of disrespect for the flag/anthem/pledge. In fact, not following the customs just out of apathy is diluting the power of others who are doing so to exercise their First Amendment rights.

 

[dizluvah]

It is a far cry from a proper ladies hat held on with pins to a baseball cap. If a lady were wearing a cloche or a dressy hat such as women wear to church or to derby they can remain on. If you are wearing a baseball hat then remove it. Deal with the hat head for the few minutes, no one should be looking at you as all eyes should be on the flag anyway.

I completely disagree - women do not need to remove hats (no special rules for casual hats vs dressy hats) Gender is the only defining criteria to the etiquette rule.

I am very patriotic, grew up in a military family and pay all appropriate respect to symbols of our country. I do not remove my baseball hat during national anthem at a game because I do not need to. It is not disrepectful for a female to leave on a baseball at in a restaurant, during the national anthem.


Christine

 

[kaytieeldr]

Totally agree.

However, when DBF and I have gone to hockey games, when the announcement is made to stand for the anthem, the announcer clearly says, "Gentlemen, remove your hats." There are plenty of ladies there wearing casual hats and they don't remove them! Honestly, if it were me, I would also remove my hat (having an 80s bouffant, though, I don't wear hats ).

I'd be complaining to rink/arena management about the sexism in their policy.

 

[kaytieeldr]

What if I don't have arms?

Seriously, get over it.

Then, how did you get the hat on in the first place?

It's all about respect.

 

[kaytieeldr]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070122104600AAsWmNx
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071226193011AAOr8PU
http://www.bcvc.net/hats/
http://allen.hutchison.org/2003/06/why-remove-your-hat.html

 

[dizluvah]

A man should remove his hat outdoors (and indoors):
(1) when he is being introduced to someone
(2) while talking with a woman, an elder, or a a person of prominence
(3) while the National Anthem is being played, or your country's Flag is passing
(4) at a funeral, or during the passing of a funeral procession

Indoors, a man should always remove his hat, especially in a home, church, or restaurant except:
(1) in some public places such as airports
(2) In retail stores
(3) while seated at the counter of a diner or cafe
(4) in the foyers of office buildings or hotels
(5) if both hands are busy carrying packages

 

[kaytieeldr]

Someone else said that the active military salute to distinguish themselves as someone serving our country. So, that isn't true then?

Um, you're the one who brought up "active duty but out of uniform". Shrubber was merely trying to respond.