WL contract expiration, points etc...

[MamaCrystal]

Sorry if this has been asked a bunch... I looked back a few pages and didn't see anything.

Any guesses as to how Disney will handle contracts for WL with the addition of waterside cabins? Will they open new, more expensive, direct sale contracts... perhaps with expiration years closer to that of GF and Poly?

Would you anticipate the amount of points needed for a stay in the new cabins to be similar to a stay in a Poly bungalow?

We were considering purchasing at WL... wondering if it might be smart to buy more points at current prices, or if they may somehow change the system there and we'd end up screwed in the end when wanting to reserve a cabin.

We're a family of 6 so would always at least need to reserve a 2-bedroom and once the cabins are complete would possibly always prefer to stay there (with trips every 2-3 years). We also really like the feel of Poly but aren't super impressed with the bungalows for the price.

Thanks for any info!

 

[disneynutz]

All unknown, and Disney won't say a word until the project is almost ready to sell.
If DVD creates a new resort at WL, they will have a 50 year term, the water cabins will have a point cost similar to PVB.

Bill

 

[MamaCrystal]

Thank you. I know it's all a guessing game at this point but wasn't sure if perhaps there had been a similar situation in the past to look to.

If DVD handled it with a contract extension in 2018 for current members, we may still be ahead (in terms of current resale $/pt + contract extension $/pt) of newbies purchasing in 2018 (at what, maybe $160/pt?)... IF a contract extension is what they offer. Figures we're thinking about buying right when this big change is going down! Ugh.

 

[mort1331]

The closest thing to this would be the TH at SSR. I believe these were built after, not sure how much after and how they worked into the whole points of SSR. Maybe someone with better knowledge can clarify.

 

[jani3]

Thank you. I know it's all a guessing game at this point but wasn't sure if perhaps there had been a similar situation in the past to look to.

If DVD handled it with a contract extension in 2018 for current members, we may still be ahead (in terms of current resale $/pt + contract extension $/pt) of newbies purchasing in 2018 (at what, maybe $160/pt?)... IF a contract extension is what they offer. Figures we're thinking about buying right when this big change is going down! Ugh.

We're on the same boat. Now that we're ready to make an offer on a resale after researching for a year, all this uncertainty comes up. Do we hold off until there's news from Disney or do we buy now before a possible price increase?

 

[wdrl]

The closest thing to this would be the TH at SSR. I believe these were built after, not sure how much after and how they worked into the whole points of SSR. Maybe someone with better knowledge can clarify.

Saratoga Springs Resort opened in May 2004 and has a January 31, 2054 expiration date. DVD started selling the Treehouse Villas in January 2009, which meant that there was still 45 years left on the SSR lease. All SSR points belong to the same condominium association and have the same rights and privileges, including having the same expiration date.

The Wilderness Lodge situation is a bit different than SSR, so I'm not sure the SSR-Treehouse Villas situations offers any precedent applicable to Wilderness. The Villas at Wilderness Lodge condo association expires in 2042, meaning that in 2018 -- when the new villas & cabins become available -- there will be less than 24 years left on VWL's lease. That is a huge difference compared to the 45 year difference in the Treehouse situation.

In my opinion, the new villas & cabins won't be offered for sale with an expiration date of only 24 years in the future. I suspect DVD will offer the new villas & cabins with a 50 year expiration, which means that it will be either its own condo association separate from the existing VWL condo association OR DVD will combine VWL and the villas & cabins into a single condo association that has an expiration around 2068. If DVD elects to do the latter, it will get interesting because it will have to offer an extension to the VWL members. DVD could handle the extension like the OKW extension: Let VWL owners extend their deeds to 2068 for a fee or sign a quitclaim deed foregoing their rights to their points after January 31, 2042.

 

[pmaurer74]

We're on the same boat. Now that we're ready to make an offer on a resale after researching for a year, all this uncertainty comes up. Do we hold off until there's news from Disney or do we buy now before a possible price increase?

We are in the same boat as well.

 

[mort1331]

Saratoga Springs Resort opened in May 2004 and has a January 31, 2054 expiration date. DVD started selling the Treehouse Villas in January 2009, which meant that there was still 45 years left on the SSR lease. All SSR points belong to the same condominium association and have the same rights and privileges, including having the same expiration date.

The Wilderness Lodge situation is a bit different than SSR, so I'm not sure the SSR-Treehouse Villas situations offers any precedent applicable to Wilderness. The Villas at Wilderness Lodge condo association expires in 2042, meaning that in 2018 -- when the new villas & cabins become available -- there will be less than 24 years left on VWL's lease. That is a huge difference compared to the 45 year difference in the Treehouse situation.

In my opinion, the new villas & cabins won't be offered for sale with an expiration date of only 24 years in the future. I suspect DVD will offer the new villas & cabins with a 50 year expiration, which means that it will be either its own condo association separate from the existing VWL condo association OR DVD will combine VWL and the villas & cabins into a single condo association that has an expiration around 2068. If DVD elects to do the latter, it will get interesting because it will have to offer an extension to the VWL members. DVD could handle the extension like the OKW extension: Let VWL owners extend their deeds to 2068 for a fee or sign a quitclaim deed foregoing their rights to their points after January 31, 2042.

I agree that there is a huge difference in the time left. I guess I was leading towards how they worked out the additional points added on with the Treehouse were blended into the others that were there. And I wasn't sure if SSR was sold out before the Treehouses started being sold.

 

[wdrl]

I agree that there is a huge difference in the time left. I guess I was leading towards how they worked out the additional points added on with the Treehouse were blended into the others that were there. And I wasn't sure if SSR was sold out before the Treehouses started being sold.

The Treehouse Villas added 30 Residential Units to the SSR condominium association, each containing about 30,175 points for a total of 905,250 points. For all intents and purposes, these points are indistinguishable from the other 309 Residential Units and 13,126,320 points that make up the rest of SSR.

The biggest impediment when adding Residential Units to an existing condo association is that DVD must apply the same square footage-to-points formula to all Residential Units in the same condo association. This formula determines how many points are allotted to each Residential Unit. In the Treehouse Villa case, DVD was essentially forced to allot 30,175 points to each Residential Unit in order to maintain SSR's ratio of square footage to points.

Here is another example of how the square footage-to-points formula impacts what DVD can do with a resort: The Polynesian Villas & Bungalows will be allotted just over 4 million points based on its square footage-to-points formula. If DVD had been required to use VWL's formula, it could only allot about 2.9 million points to PVB. That would result in about 1.1 million less points DVD could sell. And at $165/point, that is a lot of money DVD would be leaving on the table.

It doesn't matter if a resort is "sold out" when additional Residential Units are added. DVD added buildings to OKW after it was "sold out", and additions were also made to AKV and SSR. Rumors persist that DVD will add a building or two to PVB at some time in the near future.

 

[mort1331]

The Treehouse Villas added 30 Residential Units to the SSR condominium association, each containing about 30,175 points for a total of 905,250 points. For all intents and purposes, these points are indistinguishable from the other 309 Residential Units and 13,126,320 points that make up the rest of SSR.

The biggest impediment when adding Residential Units to an existing condo association is that DVD must apply the same square footage-to-points formula to all Residential Units in the same condo association. This formula determines how many points are allotted to each Residential Unit. In the Treehouse Villa case, DVD was essentially forced to allot 30,175 points to each Residential Unit in order to maintain SSR's ratio of square footage to points.

Here is another example of how the square footage-to-points formula impacts what DVD can do with a resort: The Polynesian Villas & Bungalows will be allotted just over 4 million points based on its square footage-to-points formula. If DVD had been required to use VWL's formula, it could only allot about 2.9 million points to PVB. That would result in about 1.1 million less points DVD could sell. And at $165/point, that is a lot of money DVD would be leaving on the table.

It doesn't matter if a resort is "sold out" when additional Residential Units are added. DVD added buildings to OKW after it was "sold out", and additions were also made to AKV and SSR. Rumors persist that DVD will add a building or two to PVB at some time in the near future.

Great explanation, Thank You.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

The Treehouse Villas added 30 Residential Units to the SSR condominium association, each containing about 30,175 points for a total of 905,250 points. For all intents and purposes, these points are indistinguishable from the other 309 Residential Units and 13,126,320 points that make up the rest of SSR.

The biggest impediment when adding Residential Units to an existing condo association is that DVD must apply the same square footage-to-points formula to all Residential Units in the same condo association. This formula determines how many points are allotted to each Residential Unit. In the Treehouse Villa case, DVD was essentially forced to allot 30,175 points to each Residential Unit in order to maintain SSR's ratio of square footage to points.

Here is another example of how the square footage-to-points formula impacts what DVD can do with a resort: The Polynesian Villas & Bungalows will be allotted just over 4 million points based on its square footage-to-points formula. If DVD had been required to use VWL's formula, it could only allot about 2.9 million points to PVB. That would result in about 1.1 million less points DVD could sell. And at $165/point, that is a lot of money DVD would be leaving on the table.

It doesn't matter if a resort is "sold out" when additional Residential Units are added. DVD added buildings to OKW after it was "sold out", and additions were also made to AKV and SSR. Rumors persist that DVD will add a building or two to PVB at some time in the near future.

Very enlightening. Based on this explanation I think they'll make the new studios & cabins a new condo association (WLSC?) with high studio points per night and super high cabin points per night similar to the PVB and not leave any money on the table.