Will GREAT Dining Ever Return to WDW?

[mickey2000]

With the value of the dollar going down the toilet, look for higher prices in the very near future ! Fuel, food, travel, etc ......

 

[DisMN]

I do not think fine dining will return to WDW. Ever.
I do find it interesting that so many people find it hard to believe that some of us find the dining at WDW to be a valuable part of our vacation. I live in no-where-ville where fine dining here is Kentucky Fried Chicken so OF COURSE I desire a vacation with excellent restaurants that create well prepared and interesting dishes.
That USED to be WDW, but no more. I hate that the dining plan has turned the interesting restaurants into a crapfest. Yuck.

What I hate worse is that Disney doesn't care. Yes, I know there are still some excellent restaurants but those high end, up scale restaurants aren't what I'm talking about really.

 

[Mr Lee]

I have to speak in defence of Disney Dining. From my experience, meals that I have enjoyed at both California Grill and Citrico's have been as good as or better than many Michellin starred restaurants we have visited. I also enjoy the Yaughtsman Steakhouse which provides a great meal too.

Yes, I am sure some people might say that it is because I was on the dining plan (not necessarily free as I have paid for it too), but I judge my food on quality and taste.

On my last trip I enjoyed Bistro D' Paris which was excellent, and returned to the Chef's Table at Victoria and Albert's for another unforgetable meal.

Many of the signature restaurants offer fantastic food, and for me, it is not much more expensive than going out and having an a la carte dinner in my home city.

I also enjoy restaurants such as Teppan Edo and O'Hana, but these places are about the experience as well and although the food isnt high quality I cant say I have complained too much about the quality.

Sure, everyone has had bad meals in Disney, the buffets at Chef Mickey's and Hollywood and Vine were terrible, and we have had mediocre meals at Kona Cafe and Flying Fish (worst sorbet ever!!!), but you will get off nights at every restaurant.

We leave for our next visit on Thursday, and amongst the signature dining we will be visiting California Grill and Citrico's again, as well as trying Narcoosee's and Jiko for the first time. I am paying OOP for visits to Bluezoo and Bistro D'Paris, and we will be trying out Hacienda De San Angel for the first time.

I also look forward to meals at Tusker House, Yak and Yeti, Le Celiier, O'Hana, and Teppan Edo.

Sure we can all reminise when menus had twenty main courses and it took five days to decide what to order, but this is not the priority of restaurants any more. For example look at the menu of the three michelin star rated Alain Ducasse at the Dorchester, and you will see a similar selection of starters/mains/desserts... the focus is on ensuring that the kitchen is managed efficiently and that the chef is not overloaded with too many different dishes to prepare, which may hinder the quality of the food being served.

With regards to fine dining I do believe that there will be at least one new fine dining establishment on property at the Four Seasons resort once completed. Hopefully there will be another venue to contend with Victoria & Alberts.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Planogirl:
Ariels was at the Beach Club and it too was high end--the seafood equivilent of Yachtsman. We ate dinner there 3 times as I recall.
And it went out of business----word was that it was too close to the Flying Fish(?)

And if memory serves-- there was a V&A "type" place at the top of the Wyndham Hotel on Hotel Plaza Blvd.--called Arthur's 27. We ate there one night but not long after it too went out of business.

 

[CRdisMom]

I found it funny to stumble across this thread. We just returned from a 10 day stay. We were off property for the first time. We did the TIW to save $$. Our biggest splurge was Cali Grill. I had everyone get dressed up to the disney dress code, girls and I in dresses husband in kakhis and a polo shirt. I was concerned I was under dressed. WOW I was shocked. People sitting next to us had tie dye shirts and jean shorts on and their large 2 seater stroller next to them. When we ordered the waiter, Ron, asked if we were on the meal plan and his relief when we said no was visable. He was happy and helped us thru the menu. Interestingly enough he made comments on how the staff was unhappy with the meal plan and changes. He had us at the resturant for 4 HOURS!! We did all 5 five courses. Basically the conversation was that the dining plan has required them to "dumb down" the food so that it will fit in the DDP requirements.

 

[JimmyV]

I'd love to know with more luxury of detail what the Gulf Coast Room and Empress Room offered. I've got a Birnbaum Guide from 1988 with menus (chateaubriand!). I can't imagine the Gulf Coast Room was very elegant when, according to my research, the restaurant was carved out of convention space.

1988? You have to go further back than that. The GCR closed in May of 1988 and was a shell of its former self by that time. From opening through the end of the 70's at least, the Gulf Coast Room was a "jacket required", ostensibly French restaurant that, while not "elegant" by today's standards, was far beyond the buffeterias that made up the rest of the dining there, (except for Top of the World). Your other dining options were, at one time or another in that era, the Grand Canyon Terrace, the positively horrid Pueblo Room (honestly, Chef Boyardee was better), and the Terrace Buffeteria.

The Empress Room was more or less (less, actually) what V&As is today. It was situated mid-ship on the Empress Lily with no windows. It was run like a New Orleans stalwart, like Antoine's, with a table captain and several servers per table. The food was far beyond the norm for Disney.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Originally Posted by uncleromulus

This last trip we ate at Shula's, BlueZoo, Citrico's, Flying Fish, California Grill and Il mulino. I consider that we ate well at all six spots

We also ate at California Grill, Citrico's, Flying Fish and Il mulino and we enjoyed our meals very much. We had terrific meals that were prepared much different than the normal fare you see at most other WDW restaurants. I could make a whole meal out of the different flatbreads that they have at California Grill. I still think that you can find top end restaurants at WDW if you look.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Originally Posted by uncleromulus


We also ate at California Grill, Citrico's, Flying Fish and Il mulino and we enjoyed our meals very much. We had terrific meals that were prepared much different than the normal fare you see at most other WDW restaurants. I could make a whole meal out of the different flatbreads that they have at California Grill. I still think that you can find top end restaurants at WDW if you look.

Hardly anyone says there isn't still some good meals to be had but it's still the question of why should it be NOT as good as it once was (and yet, way more expensive).

I know FF is loved, and the most consistant critic we have around here, Uncleromulus, has given his to it. But it IS NOT as good as it once was so the point of declining food remains. I'll also add that Jiko is not nearly as good now as before either.

Lastly three of the restaurants that continually get high praise, Il Mulino, Bluezoo and Shula's aren't even Disney restaurants!

It's kind of like the whole declining Disney quality debate. If you didn't experience Disney back then, your level for comparison is going to be vastly different than someone who did. It doesn't mean anyone is necessarily wrong though.

 

[GeorgeG]

I'd love to know with more luxury of detail what the Gulf Coast Room and Empress Room offered. I've got a Birnbaum Guide from 1988 with menus (chateaubriand!). I can't imagine the Gulf Coast Room was very elegant when, according to my research, the restaurant was carved out of convention space.

The Gulf Coast Room was very nice and had a strolling guitarist. It was jacket and tie (for men) and the service was excellent. I remember a good steak and a hot fudge sunday where the hot fudge was made tableside. It wasn't as great as the Empress Room, but it was still a good place for a relaxing dinner.

Our old favorite at the Poly was Tangarora Terrace. It was somewhere downstairs and out of the way of the mainstream tourists.

I think what we're all missing is that there used to more restaurants that catered to adults who might prefer a meal or two away from the chaos of the kids and character meals. As hard as it may be to believe, WDW hasn't always been just for kids.

 

[GeorgeG]

What about Ariel's or am I thinking of a different time? Wasn't it also high end?

Ariels was the seafood equivilant of the Yachtsman Steakhouse, but a little more sophisticated. Where the steakhouse offerered 52 kinds of beer, Ariels had a larger selection of wine. However, our server (Timothy) got the frosted mugs and cold beer we wanted from the Yachstman for us. Timothy never wrote anything down and every order came through perfect. I don't think you will find that too many places in WDW today. Those are memories, not just experiences.

 

[GeorgeG]

I think back on Disney with lots of wonderful food memories!
I remember when Chef Mickeys was 'Pueblo' I think it was? Amazing food...and the California Grill was a dinner theatre, the food and shows top notch. Wow..I could go on..so many changes.

I hate the dining plan..I wish it would go!

Yes, the Pueblo Room had great prime rib and Broadway at the Top was a great dinner show (Top of the World also had a great breakfast and Sunday brunch).

 

[JimmyV]

I think what we're all missing is that there used to more restaurants that catered to adults who might prefer a meal or two away from the chaos of the kids and character meals. As hard as it may be to believe, WDW hasn't always been just for kids.

GeorgeG and I clearly come from the same era, though I was a young teen when I dined at the places we are discussing back in the mid 70's. Not sure how old he is. In any event, back in the day, Disney touted its babysitting program a lot more than they do today, assuming that it even has one. Insurance rates and the fear of child abuse claims may have caused them to fold that tent. But way back when you could arrange for a babysitter to come to your hotel room and watch the kids while the parents went out for a nice dinner (or show, as was the case with the Top of the World). In my earliest visits during the summers of 1972 and 1973 when I was 9 and 10, my parents hired babysitters one night per vacation to watch us for a couple of hours while they dressed up (yes! dressed up!) and went to dinner. It was their vacation too. Indeed, let's face it. Parents need vacations more than kids. The babysitters were CMs working a second job. I remember one such babysitter who was Snow White during the day and earned extra cash at night. This babysitting program was fairly well advertised by Disney. As we grew older, the babysitting was no longer needed as our parents began taking us to these nicer places. And yes, I had to wear a jacket and tie. Dad had his rules.

Now, there has been a shift away from that approach and a proliferation of character meals. Tougher for adults to act like adults. No one is saying that Disney should re-shift. I think that the point here is that when every single decent restaurant fills every single table 180 days out, that is all the proof that you need that there is room for expansion. And the call is being made that the expansion should come on the higher end, and not the lower end.

 

[Uncleromulus]

JimmyV: We ate at the Empress Room twice--they also had a harpist playing ala V&A.
The food -while good--was a bit to heavily sauced for our tastes. Atmosphere was rather stuffy as well.

 

[sotoalf]

That's a good point, Jimmy – I never thought about the cultural shift in the treatment of children. Certainly advertising for The Neverland Club was fairly visible until ten years ago. Do the resorts still boast in-house babysitting?

 

[TDC Nala]

Disney doesn't offer in-room babysitting operated by the company itself, but there are companies in the area that will provide bonded childcare to guests at Disney resorts. In fact, I believe the platinum package plan includes either kids' club admission for older kids or in-room childcare for kids younger than 4 (likely provided by a contractor).

The deluxe resorts still have kids' clubs like Neverland for kids age 4-12 I think. Pretty sure the clubs are still operated by Disney.

 

[JimmyV]

Do the resorts still boast in-house babysitting?

I just checked the official WDW site under "Amenities and Services" for the Poly and there it states:

"Babysitting and child services are available at Disney's Polynesian Resort for an additional fee.

Located near the bus stop, across from the Great Ceremonial House, the Never Land Club is a supervised activity center for children ages 3 to 12 that is open daily from 4:00 p.m. to midnight for an additional fee. Dinner is provided between 6:00 and 8:00 p.m., and a snack is served at 10:00 p.m."

So the services still exist. But our culture seems to have shifted away from the model where parents have time to themselves as much as prior generations.

 

[GeorgeG]

Jimmy, I'm 64 and my first visit to WDW was in 1986 when I was 40. One of the things that really impressed me back then was how much there was for adults. I can be a big kid at times, too. I used to get very defensive when somebody who had never been there called WDW "just another amusement park." It wasn't, but I'm finding it harder to make that defense. It's getting harder to find a decent hot dog at WDW, let alone great dining. At least the beer is still cold and the big pretzels are still good.