Why would resale broker list at 79 if all previous sales at 82?

bullpup12564 · Dec 18, 2005

Today I talked to our resale broker to see how things were going with our current contract. He told me that a week after rofr submission WDW asked for more information so the contract was resubmitted. No problem. When I asked what the current rofr level was for the VWL he told me they only have records of sales and it was 82. I was informed that this 79/point price was on the border of passing rofr.

So I am trying to fiqure out why they would they list a contract for $79 if they are aware that there is a good chance it won't pass? Do you think they listed it at a lower price for a quick sale for the owner or are they doing me a favor by testing the lower levels of rofr?
By the way it was for VWL 24 banked points, all 05 points coming. 05 MF paid.
Any thoughts? TIA

Northwoods · Dec 18, 2005

If the brokers are like normal real estate agents - they are motivated to sell. At any price! The difference in price from $79 to $82 will make little difference in the amount of money they get. Now with the ROFR the brokers need to be careful not to piss of their buyers - since a low price the buyer loses.

I would love to know what the current ROFR price is since we are selling.

CarolA · Dec 18, 2005

bullpup12564 said:
Today I talked to our resale broker to see how things were going with our current contract. He told me that a week after rofr submission WDW asked for more information so the contract was resubmitted. No problem. When I asked what the current rofr level was for the VWL he told me they only have records of sales and it was 82. I was informed that this 79/point price was on the border of passing rofr.

So I am trying to fiqure out why they would they list a contract for $79 if they are aware that there is a good chance it won't pass? Do you think they listed it at a lower price for a quick sale for the owner or are they doing me a favor by testing the lower levels of rofr?
By the way it was for VWL 24 banked points, all 05 points coming. 05 MF paid.
Any thoughts? TIA

Because the seller told them too! I recently sold and I told my broker what to list at....Some folks are more interested in a quick sale then your ROFR concerns. As a seller it doesn't matter to me who owns it. (Mine sold at a level I "think" it will pass ROFR, but who really knows!)

The broker I used actually had a blurb on the website saying something like "Feel free to offer more then asking to pass ROFR"

JimMIA · Dec 18, 2005

I think if you are buying through one of the three brokers who do a lot of DVC resales (The Timeshare Store, Jaki, and "the one who can not be named,") they listed the contract at that price because it was a legitimate offer to sell and they have an obligation to present legitimate offers to sell...whether or not they are likely to meet some moving target Disney maintains.

However, the comment that they are supposedly only aware of selling prices makes me wonder whether you used one of these experienced brokers. It sounds to me like you either misunderstood, or you were using a less experienced broker. If you used a novice broker -- even if they are ethical -- I'm afraid you might become a victim of their learning curve.

JimMIA · Dec 18, 2005

Also, with VWL being such a small resort, there really is not much activity and therefore not much of a fix on what the ROFR levels might be. Looking at the ROFR thread, I only see one ROFR at 79 and one passing at $79.50. Just from that I'd say you probably ARE right on the border of passing.

Good luck!

debloco · Dec 19, 2005

In my case, the resale broker we found our contract at was not very knowledgeable. I spent a fair amount of time educating the agent about DVC.
And they are obligated to represent the seller, not the buyer. It seemed our sellers were not very knowledgeable either.
Our agent was surprised when I told her straight out that we were offering $2 more a point than the sellers asking price because I did not think the contract would pass ROFR otherwise. Obviously the sellers did not object :rolleyes:

and we passed.
HTH

Seth Nock · Dec 19, 2005

How much did you offer? Which property?

calypso*a*go-go · Dec 19, 2005

bullpup -- Don't give up just yet...it may still pass ROFR. I think a lot of it depends on what kind of demand the resort is in as far as people adding on points that already have existing contracts. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you as I know you really want this to happen. :goodvibes

For the experts out there, is it possible to call the resale agent and tell them you have reconsidered and would like to increase the offer? Would they be able to include an addendum to the original offer? I know you supposedly can't due it once the seller has been notified Disney is exercising ROFR, but can you do it before they make their decision? Just wondering...

JimMIA · Dec 19, 2005

calypso*a*go-go said:
For the experts out there, is it possible to call the resale agent and tell them you have reconsidered and would like to increase the offer? Would they be able to include an addendum to the original offer? I know you supposedly can't due it once the seller has been notified Disney is exercising ROFR, but can you do it before they make their decision? Just wondering...

I hope Tom will verify this, but I am pretty sure this has come up and TTS has been told that no changes can be made once the contract is agreed to and submitted to Disney for ROFR review. If you stop and think about it, that makes sense. If people could test the waters and then make a real bid, Disney's people would be tied up reviewing bogus contracts rather than evaluating real deals.

T.E. Yeary · Dec 19, 2005

The submitted contract can be ammended if Disney has NOT made their ROFR decision. After Disney makes their decision, it is a done deal, at the stated contract price.

If anyone is considering doing this, act quickly, as new paperwork must be submitted to Disney that is signed by both buyer & seller.

I hope this helps!

Sincerely,
Tom

calypso*a*go-go · Dec 20, 2005

Thanks Tom...I was hoping you'd chime in! :goodvibes

Of course the downside to increasing the offer would probably cause an even longer wait time to hear back on ROFR, but I guess it would be worth it if a buyer is triumphant in the end!

manning · Dec 20, 2005

A real estate broker works for the seller unless (s)he specifically is (in writing) hired to work for a buyer. The broker's obligation to the seller is get the sellers the best price possible. (S)he must present all offers to the seller and list at the price requested. The seller then chooses one of the offer(s) presented to him or rejects them all.

The seller doesn't care about ROFR. He cares only about getting his asking price.

If the seller refuses any offer meeting his selling price/conditions he is obligated to pay the broker his commission.

bullpup12564 · Dec 20, 2005

manning said:
A real estate broker works for the seller unless (s)he specifically is (in writing) hired to work for a buyer. The broker's obligation to the seller is get the sellers the best price possible.
The seller doesn't care about ROFR. He cares only about getting his asking price.

If disney is picking up a contract through rofr can we assume that the broker is not getting the seller the best price possible since Disney sees it has a value?

salmoneous · Dec 20, 2005

manning said:
The broker's obligation to the seller is get the sellers the best price possible.

Minor nitpick: The broker's obligation is to work in the best interests of the seller. That isn't the exact same thing as getting the best price possible. For any number of reasons - usually getting a quick and easy sale - sometimes it is in the seller's best interest to take less than the best price possible.

manning · Dec 20, 2005

salmoneous said:
Minor nitpick: The broker's obligation is to work in the best interests of the seller. That isn't the exact same thing as getting the best price possible. For any number of reasons - usually getting a quick and easy sale - sometimes it is in the seller's best interest to take less than the best price possible.

That's the sellers choice. He can choose any contract presented to him. An example of not getting the best price is the broker wants to buy or has a friend who wants to buy at 60 and the broker gets higher offers but doesn't present them to the seller,which he must. He's holding back, preventing the seller from getting the best price and is breaking the law!!! I assume if the seller found out he may be able to go after the broker for the difference and also might recover the commission. Heavy hit for the broker. Not only he loses dollars but also license.

Maybe the best phrase would be "best terms"

Seth Nock · Dec 21, 2005

manning said:
A real estate broker works for the seller unless (s)he specifically is (in writing) hired to work for a buyer. The broker's obligation to the seller is get the sellers the best price possible. (S)he must present all offers to the seller and list at the price requested. The seller then chooses one of the offer(s) presented to him or rejects them all.

The seller doesn't care about ROFR. He cares only about getting his asking price.

If the seller refuses any offer meeting his selling price/conditions he is obligated to pay the broker his commission.

Most Florida Licensed brokers are Transaction Brokers. They DON'T have an obligation to represent buyer or seller, just the transaction. Their obligations are to
"1 Deal Honestly and Fairl.
2 Account for all funds
3 Use Skill , care and diligence in the transaction
4 Disclose all known facts that materially affect the value of real property and are not readily observable to the buyer
5 Present all offers and counteroffers in a timely manner, unless previously advised in writing not to.
6 LIMITED confidenciality."

Their obligation is to get a transaction done! Who buys the property is unimportant to the broker.

highlander · Dec 21, 2005

I don't believe that this is a "real estate" transaction, it is buying a share in a vacation club. The listing agents should see the trends and advise the seller on current ROFR levels. I have to assume that there is no collusion with Disney to help fill their inventory with low price points, right? If contracts are being grabbed up by Disney below a certain price per point, wouldn't that be an indication that the seller might be able to pocket a few extra dollars by listing at a higher price? Otherwise, the buyer will get a call from their DVC CM letting them know that the points they were looking for are now available at $92 per point. Guess who makes the money when the seller unloads their contract at $79 per point?

From what I see, there is too much emotion in these transactions. You're prepaying for a vacation, not buying a house. If it makes sense for you and you're going to vacation often at Disney, then DVC makes sense. If you're only going to use it for a few years or want to expose your family to other points of interest as they grow, then you might be better off booking yourself into a resort when you need your Disney fix.

Seth Nock · Dec 21, 2005

It is Deeded property (with an expiration). It IS a real estate transaction and governed by real estate law.

JimMIA · Dec 21, 2005

highlander said:
I don't believe that this is a "real estate" transaction, it is buying a share in a vacation club.

Nope...it's a real estate transaction, regulated by the State of Florida both under our real estate licensing laws and our stringent timeshare sales laws. You're NOT joining a club.

I have to assume that there is no collusion with Disney to help fill their inventory with low price points, right?

HA! NO!!! If anything, many of the realtors who deal with DVC have sort of a love-hate relationship with the Mouse. Disney creates a market for them, but they also treat the realtors just exactly like most big businesses treat small businesses who depend on them -- badly. Disney is not the least bit above throwing their weight around by dragging their feet on ROFR, demanding "referral fees," and a whole host of other things.