Why wait times have gotten crazy

[3DisneyFanz]

You realize under FP- only about 20% of a ride (or less!) was filled by FastPass. Now, about 80% of the ride is filled by FastPass (according to TP). Don't you see it is simple? 5x as many people are using it now. Thus the standby line moves slower. But the average wait among FastPass AND standby waiters, is less, because most guests are FastPassing the rides now. (4:1 on some rides according to TP).

When you say the wait times are longer, remember they're only longer FOR YOU and other Dis'ers. They are shorter for the rest of the millions of guests who are now using FastPass that never used to before.



Isn't FP+ also equal? We all start off "the day" the same. 0. FP- you pick them on one day, FP+ you pick them on another day. FP- would give dibbs to the ppl who got to the park first, FP+ gives dibbs to the ppl who get on the computer first. But we all start equal. Only what you have to do to get the best FastPasses first, has changed. I happen to prefer picking them at home than in the park.



So what. They can be onsite guests if they want. This is a personal choice.



Something is always easy for someone's who's good at it. I happen to think math is easy, others don't. You and I both thought FP- was easy, most other guests did not. In the end, 5x as many people are using FP+ than FP-. It's easy because it's on their phone. People are familiar w their phones. That sucks for you, I get it, because you now have to wait for all these people who are EASILY using FP+ when they never used FP-. But that's just life.

I get why you don't like FP+. Believe me I'm right there with you. But you keep saying it's because it's so hard to use, when really what's going on is it's so easy to use that makes it worse for you. You should be disliking that it's so easy to use for so many people. Because that is what's causing you longer waits.

Ive never seen the 20% number anywhere. I've tried to find that breakdown in the past but haven't seen a real number. Is there somewhere that documents that?

FP+ doesn't put anyone on equal footing. The person who checks in on Friday has earlier dibs than the person who checked in on Saturday who has a better shot than the person who checked in on Sunday.

 

[wisblue]

Not sure if he changed the numbers after you posted but item 1 is closing attractions and item 2 is FP+. Whether you want to argue the definition of more efficient plus usage the end result is the same.

Thankfully I've never been impacted with the crazy FP return lines that people talk about now but I've certainly seen enough pictures to realize it's clearly happening. How much is hard to gauge since they don't post FP wait times. I know that even with a FP we've yet to simply walk on anything the way we used to before. It's definitely a shorter wait than SB but not as quick as it used to be.

It isn't a matter of definition, but just looking at what the blog itself says. The statement on the list of reasons relating to FP+ is "Better handling of FastPass+ return lines in the park". I don't want to quote the whole thing here, but the blog about the lines at DHS gets into this in detail, and says that problems with people getting bogged down at the FP+ entry points slowed people in the FP line and allowed the standby line to move a little faster. It doesn't say anything about more people using FPs. In another part of the DHS blog, Testa addresses the issue of whether more of a ride's capacity is being devoted to FP+ in 2015 than 2014. He concludes that the target of devoting 80% of a line's capacity to FP+ has not changed. So, he has not concluded that more people are using FPs at an attraction now than in 2014.

As for the long FP lines, I have seen the pictures of long lines, so I don't doubt that they do happen on occasion. But, they do seem to be infrequent. If the FP+ lines that I have been in have been longer than they used to be, I haven't really noticed because we would be talking about a difference of less than 5 minutes at most.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

It isn't a matter of definition, but just looking at what the blog itself says. The statement on the list of reasons relating to FP+ is "Better handling of FastPass+ return lines in the park". I don't want to quote the whole thing here, but the blog about the lines at DHS gets into this in detail, and says that problems with people getting bogged down at the FP+ entry points slowed people in the FP line and allowed the standby line to move a little faster. It doesn't say anything about more people using FPs. In another part of the DHS blog, Testa addresses the issue of whether more of a ride's capacity is being devoted to FP+ in 2015 than 2014. He concludes that the target of devoting 80% of a line's capacity to FP+ has not changed. So, he has not concluded that more people are using FPs at an attraction now than in 2014.

As for the long FP lines, I have seen the pictures of long lines, so I don't doubt that they do happen on occasion. But, they do seem to be infrequent. If the FP+ lines that I have been in have been longer than they used to be, I haven't really noticed because we would be talking about a difference of less than 5 minutes at most.

I guess the point I was wanting to make (and obviously not well) was that efficient or inefficient FP+ drives the longer SB times.

 

[wisblue]

I guess the point I was wanting to make (and obviously not well) was that efficient or inefficient FP+ drives the longer SB times.

And that would be true of any FP system.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't get this notion that FP+ is better because more people know to use it. If people didn't understand how to use legacy that's on Disney. Why wouldn't they educate people just as much as they do now ? It makes absolutely no sense.

Also, more of any group isn't riding certain rides and meeting more characters. Just as many people as before are doing so, the lines are just distributed differently. Capacity isn't changed by FP+.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

And that would be true of any FP system.

Which is why I think they would have been better served to scrap the whole concept than what they did.

 

[Jennytoon]

Not sure if he changed the numbers after you posted but item 1 is closing attractions and item 2 is FP+. Whether you want to argue the definition of more efficient plus usage the end result is the same.

Thankfully I've never been impacted with the crazy FP return lines that people talk about now but I've certainly seen enough pictures to realize it's clearly happening. How much is hard to gauge since they don't post FP wait times. I know that even with a FP we've yet to simply walk on anything the way we used to before. It's definitely a shorter wait than SB but not as quick as it used to be.

Yep, we have definitely seen the crazy FP lines. When we went in May, we bypassed a FP line for Kali because it was crazy long ... of course, it was crazy long b/c the ride had been down for 2 hours and just come back up, so even if only 10% of the people who had FP over the previous two hours showed up at once, that was a LOT.

In August, we were at the parks for 16 days, and we waited 40 minutes in the FP line for Soarin'. I don't know what the cause of that one was, but it was the *only* time we waited more than 3-5 minutes between the FP entrance and the merge point with the standby line (and frequently there was no wait between the entrance and the merge point). We also a couple of times got into FP return lines that *looked* crazy long for the Safari in AK, but they were moving so fast that it still was <5 minutes to the merge.

So 1) Yes, crazy long lines do occur, but I think there's a lot of 'nobody posts about it when their fastpass line moved quickly' going on and 2) just because you see a picture of a really long line does not mean that it necessarily correlates to a really long wait.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Yep, we have definitely seen the crazy FP lines. When we went in May, we bypassed a FP line for Kali because it was crazy long ... of course, it was crazy long b/c the ride had been down for 2 hours and just come back up, so even if only 10% of the people who had FP over the previous two hours showed up at once, that was a LOT.

In August, we were at the parks for 16 days, and we waited 40 minutes in the FP line for Soarin'. I don't know what the cause of that one was, but it was the *only* time we waited more than 3-5 minutes between the FP entrance and the merge point with the standby line (and frequently there was no wait between the entrance and the merge point). We also a couple of times got into FP return lines that *looked* crazy long for the Safari in AK, but they were moving so fast that it still was <5 minutes to the merge.

So 1) Yes, crazy long lines do occur, but I think there's a lot of 'nobody posts about it when their fastpass line moved quickly' going on and 2) just because you see a picture of a really long line does not mean that it necessarily correlates to a really long wait.

Im going out on a limb and saying the pictures of lines for TSMM that reach outside and to the lounge and the SE ones that are all the way down the ramp are taking a pretty long time.

Again I thankfully haven't experienced that but I also haven't seen the 45 min wait for Figment but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be acknowledged.

 

[Jennytoon]

Im going out on a limb and saying the pictures of lines for TSMM that reach outside and to the lounge and the SE ones that are all the way down the ramp are taking a pretty long time.

Again I thankfully haven't experienced that but I also haven't seen the 45 min wait for Figment but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be acknowledged.

I was in one of the SE ones that was all the way down the ramp. It was not bad at all -- maybe 5 minutes at most. That ride is a people eater.

re: TSMM, it was down two of three times we tried to ride it on three different days when we were there in August. The impression I got from the CMs is that it has been down more frequently than usual recently (well, recently then). If that is the case, it might account for some of those lines. I do know that the one time we were on it (with FP) in August, there was no line outside the building at all.

And I'm not failing to acknowledge that long waits in FP return lines do occur -- in fact I said I was in one of them. I'm just saying that some of those waits may not be as bad as they appear (SE in this example), and others may have additional context that puts a different spin on the length of the line (everyone turning up in a short period after the ride has been out of service). Pictures of the lines or individual reports of long-wait experiences are anecdotes and should not be considered to necessarily be representative of the norm because, you know, I can't remember the last time I saw someone come on the DIS and post a rant about how their FP wait at Space Mountain was so short, and it really just made them so aggravated because they were too early for their lunch ADR.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

I haven't seen lines at the kiosks in a long time - they seem to be pretty well staffed now and folks get in and out fairly quickly.

@flicx, I think that you and FastPass+ may need to get a divorce.

That's not always true. We're there 2nd week in October and had to wait a long time all three days we were in MK. We didn't even try it in EPCOT because there were so many people waiting. On top of that, the dang touch screens seem to faulter frequently, which slows down the line.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

I don't get this notion that FP+ is better because more people know to use it. If people didn't understand how to use legacy that's on Disney. Why wouldn't they educate people just as much as they do now ? It makes absolutely no sense.

Also, more of any group isn't riding certain rides and meeting more characters. Just as many people as before are doing so, the lines are just distributed differently. Capacity isn't changed by FP+.

Me either. And I fail to see how it is actually easier. Sure you get too book you FPs in advance, but then everyone has to line up for the kiosk and work with touch screens that don't react to my touch half the time.

And it really isn't a level playing field if you think about it. Let's say family 1 has a tripped book two days ahead of family 2, but they are going to MK on the same day. Well, family 1 gets the pick of FPs before family 2. Is that really fair? I would rather enter the parks on even ground and go to the FP machines that I really want like the old FP system.

 

[larryz]

Disney tries hard to keep the resort levels separate from the parks.

I think WDW already ties premium lodging to the resorts. For example, if you want to walk to a resort, you must stay in a Deluxe.

 

[larryz]

Disney would be making a grave mistake if they penalize off-site visitors. Disney in no way has the capacity to have all of their guests stay on-site. Off-site guests and locals make up a large part of their business.

Not yet, anyway...

 

[larryz]

Here it comes...

 

[larryz]

But I still land the same time as first class. So, not really impacted the same.

Actually, just a tad before. The main gear touch down moments before the nose gear does...

 

[larryz]

The one factor I think that is missing is are all rides running efficiently as before plus? They may have the same capacity but are they loading at the same rates now that there is a huge increase in fast pass attractions (ie. two lines don't load as good as one)! I guess basically that would lower capacity if you would want to lump it all together!

As long as you have two or three butts ready for each seat when the ride vehicle is ready, you're as efficient as you can get.

Some of the continuously loading rides are somewhat slower due to frequent stoppages for guests who must transfer from ECVs or wheelchairs. Anecdotal reports of increasing numbers of ECVs and wheelchairs would lead me to believe these transfer stops are happening more frequently than in the past.

Consider, also, that in a system designed to run continuously from start to finish, like the Omnimover, frequent stops and starts place additional strain on the system components, increasing preventive maintenance requirements, accelerating wear, and causing more frequent breakdowns...

 

[larryz]

Go to the actual Germany with a real passport? Now that's an idea! On the other hand, there are no lines or attractions in Disney's version of Germany. Okay, so maybe you will need an ADR to watch the accordion playing/polka show while you eat, but at least you won't have to book this meal 60 days in advance.

Good point! Just like in Disney's Germany, you'll find lots of shops, restaurants (some with musik!) and people milling about.

Unlike Disney's Germany, you'll also be able to experience the Autobahn, very similar to the Richard Petty experience, for the price of a rental car; scenic vistas including castles, rivers and historic railways; fresh, REAL German food, bier and wein; and (an added bonus for the foreseeable future) a large part of Syrian culture...

 

[larryz]

Off site guests are allowed to ride attractions only from 9-11am, and 2-7pm. They aren't kicked out of the park, and they are free to see the parades, eat in the restaurants.

With the 60-day onsite reservations perk, isn't this already happening?

 

[wisblue]

So blog two comes to the same answer. Wait times are up due to FP+ and closed rides which doesn't shock most people. The only thing I have an issue with is their guess on the reason for the increase in single rider lines. I don't think it's wrong data or technical problems but rather a result of the tiering in the parks. People are trying to use those since they are using their tier 1 options on other things.

BTW, your theory about single rider lines and tiering doesn't really hold up, because if you look at the chart the data is pretty consistent from 2014 to 2015, and the one spike clearly seems to be an aberration. The average wait times are all in the range of 10-50 minutes and follow a very similar pattern year over year. Then suddenly there is the one entry with an average wait of 100 minutes, which is double the second highest number for the entire two year period. I think that's why he concludes that it is probably a technical glitch or wrong data.

 

[larryz]

Disney isn't going to change their minds about FP+ and go back to a system that benefited less people and was more restrictive. I'm waiting to see the results for MK because I have a feeling it's not going to be quite as crazy at all with how many rides there are there.

Well, considering that the original intent of legacy FP was NEVER to benefit the guest, but to increase guest spending, I'd say the whole system is flawed by a faulty premise. Because clearly, when people are in line for an attraction, they're not spending money, and based on the stats, people are spending more time in lines these days.