Why wait times have gotten crazy

[3DisneyFanz]

They already do that. DME for onsite guests, not off site. Deluxe guests get better transpiration options than value, etc.

Disney is constantly tinkering with the model. In the end, it's not a question of what they like and what they don't -- it's just how to maximize profits.

They actually already offer a $5,000 line-free experience -- personalized VIP service. So really, they are already doing it-- just a question of whether they should offer packages that fall in between the basic and the VIP.

I'll pass on the deluxe transportation options. Monorails that are falling apart and sketchy bus service. No thanks. We've always found transportation at Pop to be the most efficient if anywhere we stayed.

 

[havoc315]

To expound on your examples further:

People sitting in first class or having 50 yard line seats don't affect my experience in coach or in the nosebleeds at all. People jumping ahead of the line making SB waits longer does affect me, quite a bit in some cases. That is the key difference in the examples.

Sure they affect you! You're just used to it.

Imagine that stadiums were like movie theaters. General admission seating. Just like rope drop at Disney World, you can get there early and have a better experience. So if you get to the stadium early, you get the 50 yard seats.
But then they start charging more for the seats-- your experience is now impacted. You can't just get those seats by arriving early. You have to pay extra or sit in the nose bleeds.

Same with first class on a plane. If there was no first class, you could give 100 passengers 4 feet of leg room (made up numbers). But with 80 coach passengers and 20 first class passengers, the first class get 6 feet of leg room, and coach passengers only get 3 feet. So you've been affected, you're just used to it.

 

[havoc315]

Why not have different bathrooms also? After all, if you spend more, why have to wait in line to use the restroom? The add ons could be endless... "I'm sorry, you have to use the bathrooms at the ticket center, these are reserved for gold passes"........

Yes, that happens on airlines. Coach guests are not to use the first class bathrooms.

I've had similar experiences on a Disney cruise ship -- certain facilities are reserved for the concierge and suite guests.

 

[dlavender]

Imagine that stadiums were like movie theaters. General admission seating. Just like rope drop at Disney World, you can get there early and have a better experience. So if you get to the stadium early, you get the 50 yard seats.
But then they start charging more for the seats-- your experience is now impacted. You can't just get those seats by arriving early. You have to pay extra or sit in the nose bleeds.

But that's not how it works....

Same with first class on a plane. If there was no first class, you could give 100 passengers 4 feet of leg room (made up numbers). But with 80 coach passengers and 20 first class passengers, the first class get 6 feet of leg room, and coach passengers only get 3 feet. So you've been affected, you're just used to it.

But I still land the same time as first class. So, not really impacted the same.

 

[dlavender]

Yes, that happens on airlines. Coach guests are not to use the first class bathrooms.

I've had similar experiences on a Disney cruise ship -- certain facilities are reserved for the concierge and suite guests.

So, for your example to work, Disney would have to build separate facilities to offer a premium experience. I'm fine with that. Build a special bathroom for those that want to pay for it. You'd get no argument from me.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Doesn't Disney already offer a version of this "special pass"-- stay on-site, and get special access to EMH hours. So they are already giving on site guests special access.

So they are already doing it-- question is whether they should increase it even more.

Agreed.

Disney also conveniently located the Deluxe resorts closer to the parks the values and mods. Though oddly the mods aren't necessarily better than the value resorts where transportation is concerned.

If you PAY for a room at a DELUXE hotel you ALREADY get to sleep longer than someone staying a moderate resort. An extra hour of sleep (or more) per day is quite a bit!

It isn't just mornings either. In very real terms- guests experience is already very stratified.
Take pool towels and ADR's. Guests at GF can be at ANY Monorail resort TS location inside of 15min. Guests coming from CBR- have to allow 90minutes (via WDW transportation) to get to any monorail dining.

We've done many split stays...there's also some funny hidden differences like water pressure. Value room sinks produce a dribble.

SO I always chuckle a bit when folks say WDW isn't already very stratified according to budget.

 

[dlavender]

As far as wait times, which is what I think this thread was/is about.....I don't believe in a system that would let people pay more at the expense of others i.e. a ride pass that slows the SB wait to allow for no wait for the pass holder. But, if Disney would like to build a special seating area and restroom for an up charge, go for it.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I did the math on the VIP Tour Service once, assuming you had a group of ten people for the six hours. It came out to about $10-15 a ride. I forget my assumptions that I used, I know I took out the cost of the guide and the van, but regardless. $10-15 a ride is super pricey. But that is the price you can expect if they ever start to sell them. In fact I think there was a rumor about selling FPs ala carte a while back and that was the price that was floated.

If Disney moves to some other sort of pay-for-FP service in addition to the VIP Tour, it is not going to be cheap so be careful what you wish for!

 

[Spacepest]

For those with the money to pay to not wait: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/vip-tour-services/

My family tried to book one of these VIP tours one time. Guess what? They didn't have any guides available, so no tour for us.

 

[dlavender]

Agreed.

Disney also conveniently located the Deluxe resorts closer to the parks the values and mods. Though oddly the mods aren't necessarily better than the value resorts where transportation is concerned.

If you PAY for a room at a DELUXE hotel you ALREADY get to sleep longer than someone staying a moderate resort. An extra hour of sleep (or more) per day is quite a bit!

It isn't just mornings either. In very real terms- guests experience is already very stratified.
Take pool towels and ADR's. Guests at GF can be at ANY Monorail resort TS location inside of 15min. Guests coming from CBR- have to allow 90minutes (via WDW transportation) to get to any monorail dining.

We've done many split stays...there's also some funny hidden differences like water pressure. Value room sinks produce a dribble.

SO I always chuckle a bit when folks say WDW isn't already very stratified according to budget.

I'm not sure I know anyone that would expect the same experience at the All Star Sports as you would get at the Grand Floridian....

Once in the parks, however, the playing field should be about the same

 

[larandtra1990]

I think maybe I am just in the minority, along with those who think FP+ has been a positive, that the halloween party isnt a disaster this year, and that food and wine is still fun. Or maybe the minority are the complainers and they are more vocal. My question is why wouldnt you want more people to have a chance to go and have fun, experience the magic? Does it make it a bit more crowded and force you to plan a little better to remain a step ahead? Yes, but, we just came back from the F&W and Halloween party on a weekend and I didnt find any issues. 16 people, FP+ worked, meal reservations worked, recognizing real wait times based on lines and not whats posted, etc. I read post after post complaining, but, my real world experience and that of those I have done planning for in the past year has not diminished one bit from what it was before. If anything, its gotten better. I guess its easy to come on the boards and use mob mentality and just complain like people did about FP before they ever even tried it themselves. They let everyone else tell them how bad it would be and they joined in the mantra. Its typical human reaction and its easy to do on a message board.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

As far as wait times, which is what I think this thread was/is about.....I don't believe in a system that would let people pay more at the expense of others i.e. a ride pass that slows the SB wait to allow for no wait for the pass holder. But, if Disney would like to build a special seating area and restroom for an up charge, go for it.

Except you are maybe not realizing that Disney already has such a system in place.
BC guests can be in their rooms about 15min after Illuminations ends.

Pop guests? Have more like a 90+minute commute. They ALREADY have a MUCH longer wait at the start and end of the day.

The Pop food court also has long lines at peak time.

Ever spend time in the GF lobby? I promise, you will NOT see a line of guests WAITING at the check-in or concierge help desk.

Guests who pay less wait more multiple times each day.

 

[havoc315]

I'm not sure I know anyone that would expect the same experience at the All Star Sports as you would get at the Grand Floridian....

Once in the parks, however, the playing field should be about the same

Other than you're used to it.. There is no rational basis for drawing that line.

You don't seem to object to all the current park perks:
Availability of VIP tours for those who pay extra.
Character meetings without lines by paying extra for an overpriced meal..
EMH for those paying to stay on site.

You just are against any changes that extend these privileges any further.

We are just both equally selfish in different directions:
I'm willing to spend more, therefore I favor changes that might let me get more.
You're against any changes that will give you less, without paying more.

 

[havoc315]

But that's not how it works....



But I still land the same time as first class. So, not really impacted the same.

And you still ride the same rides.
Just the comfort level is affected (walk on vs wait in line)

Just like with the airline... You get to the same destination but in a different comfort level.

 

[tlmadden73]

How accurate is the posted standby times?

It says 60 minutes for Buzz, but if you got in line, would your really wait 60 minutes? It should be a fast moving queue since it is a continuous loading ride like Haunted Mansion.

And how accurate can those times really be? It really just depends how many people that have a Fast Pass for a given hour show up. What if everyone that has a fast pass for 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM show up at 10:31 AM? That 60 minute listed wait time may go up. Wait if everyone didn't show up until the end of the window? That means the standby line would zip through quickly as no Fast Passers are cutting the line.

Wouldn't it be Disney's best interest to inflate those wait times a bit?
1) If you get in line and it is shorter than posted - bonus
2) If you have a Fast Pass you "feel" better than you are skipping a longer line. It really SELLS the FP+ system.
3) It keeps people away from waiting in lines and sending them to rides with shorter lines (distributing the crowds)
4) It keeps people away from waiting in lines and in stores/restaurants.

Buzz was my son's (3yo) favorite ride last time around - we went on it 3 times. Since it is so interactive, it is probably more "repeatable" than most rides at MK and like TSMM, fun for all ages due to the "game" aspect.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I'm not sure I know anyone that would expect the same experience at the All Star Sports as you would get at the Grand Floridian....

Once in the parks, however, the playing field should be about the same

Except those differences = more park time vs. less park time. It isn't just pretty wallpaper and a bigger bed.

We once had a funny stay where part of our family stayed at CR, and part of us stayed at a value. Well, actually it wasn't all that funny. It was actually very hard to keep the group together at all.

But if you wish to think everyone has equal dibs to all other perks, um okay. It is really a stretch to imagine that the electronic FP system reserves additional access to premium Fastpasses for guests who pay extra?

 

[dlavender]

Except you are maybe not realizing that Disney already has such a system in place.
BC guests can be in their rooms about 15min after Illuminations ends.

Pop guests? Have more like a 90+minute commute. They ALREADY have a MUCH longer wait at the start and end of the day.

The Pop food court also has long lines at peak time.

Ever spend time in the GF lobby? I promise, you will NOT see a line of guests WAITING at the check-in or concierge help desk.

Guests who pay less wait more multiple times each day.

Not sure what this has to do with wait times inside the park....

 

[Jennytoon]

Except you are maybe not realizing that Disney already has such a system in place.
BC guests can be in their rooms about 15min after Illuminations ends.

Pop guests? Have more like a 90+minute commute. They ALREADY have a MUCH longer wait at the start and end of the day.

The Pop food court also has long lines at peak time.

Ever spend time in the GF lobby? I promise, you will NOT see a line of guests WAITING at the check-in or concierge help desk.

Guests who pay less wait more multiple times each day.

Yep, BC guests can be in their rooms about 15 minutes after Illuminations ends. AKL guests cannot. That said, you can stay in POP, park in any of the park lots for free, and have a greatly reduced travel time to your resort (I would argue comparable to an average monorail resort to non-Magic-Kingdom park). It only needs to be 90 minutes if you rely on Disney transportation.

Yes, the Pop food court also has long lines at Peak time. I suspect this is related to the % of guests at POP who are eating in the POP food court. Just a guess, but it seems likely that guests staying in the GF are more likely, on average, to be making TS reservations and not waiting at the food court. Now Hurricane Hanna's [at the BC] on the other hand? The line for that CS food can get pretty lengthy at mid-afternoon in the summer. Almost half an hour my kids waited in August.

I agree that it is likely that there is variation in the staffing levels between Value / Mod / Deluxe and that on average guests at a deluxe will have shorter waits. However, on my most recent trip in August of this year, I waited in line to check in at BC. I waited in line to check in at AKL. I waited behind 5 people at the concierge desk at AKL, when there were only two people staffing it. My DH waited to pay the bill at the check out desk at SSR. Now, we didn't wait to check in at SSR, but then, we arrived on Thursday mid-morning, not a super-popular time. On my one and only other on-site stay at BWV in 2011, we waited to check in. Based on my personal experience, it may be true that on average deluxe guests wait less time in such lines overall, but the assertion that there is never a line of guests waiting is unfounded.

 

[dlavender]

And you still ride the same rides.
Just the comfort level is affected (walk on vs wait in line)

Just like with the airline... You get to the same destination but in a different comfort level.

I don't see waiting longer as a comfort thing. I see it as getting to do less, having a lesser experience.

 

[dlavender]

Except those differences = more park time vs. less park time. It isn't just pretty wallpaper and a bigger bed.

We once had a funny stay where part of our family stayed at CR, and part of us stayed at a value. Well, actually it wasn't all that funny. It was actually very hard to keep the group together at all.

But if you wish to think everyone has equal dibs to all other perks, um okay. It is really a stretch to imagine that the electronic FP system reserves additional access to premium Fastpasses for guests who pay extra?

One could sleep outside, and still be at the park the same time as someone who stayed at the Contemporary. I don't understand your point....